Dodge Challenger Forum banner

1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi
I've gone through exhaust mod threads and sound clips and can't find an answer to my post. I've always been a big fan of the turbo muffler. Have used them many times on my other cars, but they all had V8's. Being that I have a 2013 and the muffler is a straight through design I was wondering if placing the turbo muffler there would be a better choice than using it as a resonator replacement to alter the exhaust to sound "lower/deeper".
Looking for your input on this.
Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,569 Posts
So the SXT mid mufflers aka resonators are straight through? So you center mufflers look like the 392:
http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f5/discussion-stock-exhaust-resonators-muffler-cutaway-86239/index2.html


If you do a search I had a long post on straight through mufflers and wave propagation dunno 4 years back, also had a long post on too large a pipe and the whole backpressure myth. But long story short, the exhaust is prone to drone with one or even two straight through mufflers. Changing the a factory resonator to anther resonator (straight through) is not going to alter the sound or improve the flow much. So that would leave changing out the rear mufflers to a straight through setup, this is a popular choice and to be honest I would try something like the solo tuned exhaust as the concept is really neat, but I digress. If you do change out the rear muffler don't go too big on the inside tube as the exhaust flow is cooled by then and see if you can get an offset "straight through" design which has a tendency to force the long harmonic drone waves into the packing of the muffler instead of straight out the back which most Challenger aftermarket exhaust do.
https://www.google.com/search?q=challenger+rear+exhaust+muffler&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=yD0hU-GsPIOt2QWerIHgCQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1829&bih=956#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=K1yKU_R4TSIZVM%253A%3B6KHSpXYm8QC8IM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fpypesexhaust.com%252Fimages%252FF87398625.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fpypesexhaust.com%252Fi-13475224-08-14-challenger-v6-cat-back-system-smc22s.html%3B800%3B600

you can see on a fully offset muffler the long low wave will have a tendency to propagate into the packing at both 45 degree turns yet the muffler is a "straight through" design. My original magnaflow had offset straight through mufflers and there was no, as in none drone.

Also check in with DDennis as he seems to be the man on the current Pentastar... I have a 3.5
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
So the SXT mid mufflers aka resonators are straight through? So you center mufflers look like the 392:
http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f5/discussion-stock-exhaust-resonators-muffler-cutaway-86239/index2.html
Yes my 3.6 auto has this type of system:
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/230/photo3cy.jpg
You talk about changing the forward exhaust chamber (resonator) to another style of the same configuration. That's not my intent.
This to me is another type of resonator:
http://pypesexhaust.com/images/F87398625.jpg
I'm looking to replace either front or back of the exhaust system with this:
http://www.dynomax.com/skin/frontend/default/dynomax/images/mufflers/landing_st_main.jpg
The system in stock form to me sounds "European" being that it has a X pipe and not an H pipe. I've had many times put an H pipe into cars I had or for someone else and heard the lower tone it can develop.
Putting a muffler in I was hoping to achieve something closer to an H pipe design but still using the X pipe in the system.
Not to do this :deadhorse: but I will. Any and all pictures I've seen of a Challenger exhaust has that large exhaust chamber at the back. Though the years of this car it seams different configurations either made it into a muffler or a resonator. You can find many pictures of what this thing looks like cut open. There are some OEM systems that use a real muffler up front, either a two muffler design or the "suitcase". And others, like mine, that are straight through.
I'm done for now, my PC is running low on ink to type with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,569 Posts
I read turbo mufflers, I thought your were talking about the recent 20 year trend to call straight through but packed mufflers "turbo mufflers". Of course I actually worked on Corvairs with the actual "turbo muffler". My mistake.
Under Pressure | Hemmings Motor News

an interesting aside, I was at the armor museum the other day and I was looking at the MASH type helicopter and thought that sure looks like a Corvair engine turned to face the sky and a rotor stuck on it. I started talking to the old-timer there, and sure enough, they actually are Corvair engines turned skyward... funny stuff that.

I love the hemi super turbo, the twin turns and the channeling guides really help flow, stop all drone. Gut feeling for me would be to lose the center resonators and replace the two rear mufflers with the hemisuperturbo setup 2 and 1/4 should do it.

BTW you summation of all the stock exhaust was right on the money. Succinct and cogent... something I never am.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Thanks oldman
Follow this from Jay Leno and listen to what a 6 cylinder apposed engine sounds like with Turbo mufflers. Remember the Corvair has no real length exhaust system at all.
Jay Leno's Garage - 1966 Chevrolet Corvair Yenko Stinger | Chevrolet
I use to use AP exhaust replacement Corvair Turbo mufflers on my cars. I would think they were just baffled internally and didn't have the same internals as the Super Turbo design I posted
As a side note I put/installed a Corvair engine in a 57 VW, what a fun ride that was.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,569 Posts
Thanks oldman
Follow this from Jay Leno and listen to what a 6 cylinder apposed engine sounds like with Turbo mufflers. Remember the Corvair has no real length exhaust system at all.
and a super small turbo to deaden sound..

Jay Leno's Garage - 1966 Chevrolet Corvair Yenko Stinger | Chevrolet

I use to use AP exhaust replacement Corvair Turbo mufflers on my cars. I would think they were just baffled internally and didn't have the same internals as the Super Turbo design
The dynomax is a far superior design, I've used it in all my 4 banger buildups, but now for pipes above 2.5" I go with the VT on a 4 banger to shut off most drone. A single SuperTurbo at 2.5 inch is good to about 220 engine HP, after that 2 and 3/4 is needed and the SuperTurbo even with all the baffling does not stop the drone waves NA Honda.

Back to the Challenger, I was going and still might: hack off the center mufflers and run two SuperTurbo 2.25. I'm on a bone stock R/T exhaust right now, and to tell you the truth I like it quite but there is no feel of performance as there is very little to be heard in the car. I was also toying with the idea of just buying the Ford 5.0 sound tube aka (Jensen dual cone speaker with a plus motor instead of coil and magnet) and seeing how that actually sounded on a supercharged Challenger. Even Hyundai is doing a sound tube for the V6, my thought is the human ear just finds more beats to sound better and what Ford is doing is using intake beats pipe into the interior and exhaust beats to make the engine sound like a V16 and Hyundai a V12. I've been in several 5.0 and they do sound great, sure the engine does truly scream to 7000 RPM, but really the sound is more like a V16 at 70000 RPM.

To my mind that is going to be the only way to get the V6 to sound more like a V8 from inside the cabin.

Now back on topic, note what Ford did on the Boss, they created a distantly different length H pipe and exit just for sound. I've not been in a Boss, but it is a cool concept in sound tuning. I would guess the sound exits are tuned in length to be 180 out of phase from the rear exit at about 6500 RPM. I would have been too cool to work on the concept...

https://www.google.com/search?q=boss+exhaust&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=dFIiU-ueFITO2AW33YGoAg&ved=0CE4QsAQ&biw=1829&bih=956#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=HQTIaDEOY8SGpM%3A;OPkiCNq4znUPPM;http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.caranddriver.com%2Fimages%2F11q1%2F387459%2F2012-ford-mustang-boss-302-exhaust-photo-387657-s-1280x782.jpg;http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caranddriver.com%2Fphotos-11q1%2F387459%2F2012-ford-mustang-boss-302-exhaust-photo-387657;1280;782


As a side note I put/installed a Corvair engine in a 57 VW, what a fun ride that was.
The old swing axle baby window.. LOL. After the Corvair loses it engine what do you do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
and a super small turbo to deaden sound..

Jay Leno's Garage - 1966 Chevrolet Corvair Yenko Stinger | Chevrolet


Back to the Challenger, I was going and still might: hack off the center mufflers and run two SuperTurbo 2.25. [/url]
How do you think the sound would change by me putting them in the same location where the resonators (straight through muffler) were? Remember I have a 3.6.

Or maybe, if it is still available, using the AP design even though it doesn't flow as good. Just a thought on this.

Look again at the Corvair, it has 4 carburetors. And I will admit the pictures or video really doesn't say what mufflers are being used on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,569 Posts
I don't think the middle resonators and that what they are in this case do a whole lotta sound dampening. I think if you put two superturbos there you will end up with a quite exhaust, with very little to no sound change. I don't think the center resonators are very restrictive in a 3.6 application so there will be no real change in flow.

Hence I proposed and I know others have done it, change the middle resonators to straight pipe and use two 2 and 1/4 SuperTurbo out back. We know these do a good job of dampening long wave sound aka drone and this should yield a nice sound and at the same time lose some weight off the exhaust. My only concern back there is the muffler is gonna be small while a mid-location would allow a much bigger muffler. So I guess a second option is mid-mount the super turbo mufflers and then completely remove the rear mufflers. This will yield a nice long muffler.

At some point you start using very little of the OEM exhaust!
Since I have an , to my mind my first mod would be to loose the two rear mufflers. I wonder if Solo just makes the two rear J resonation pipe dampers? I gotta look at their site or some other sound tuning alternative. Like the boss setup via the H pipe, which to my mind is still the optimal setup ever designed for a V engine rear wheel drive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Looking at the internals of the Super Turbo to me I would say it's a long resonator packed in a small area.
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkdJ4ctvG6NoMf2YkhugQkOHfKaI4pwQGg4_k4z8sRA3_F31qI
There is no baffles like in a standard muffler.
http://www.cdxetextbook.com/images/350px-Muffler.jpg
The Super Turbo comes in many sizes.
Super Turbo™ Mufflers - DynoMax® Performance Exhaust
Since I'm trying to find a way of lowering the exhaust note (a.k.a tone) I realize a bigger chambered muffler or resonator would do this and placing it in the middle of the exhaust system to me would be a more logical placement and yes, more than likely, removing the rear mufflers.
If putting the largest possible Super Turbo at the back with straight pipe where the resonators are now and could accomplish this, that would be an option.
Or how about just using a style of baffled muffler in place of the forward resonators and running straight pipe out the back after that?
Or, how about using Super Traps?
SuperTrapp: Performance Exhaust
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top