[jpancer]

I recently installed the Magnuson 8lbs supercharger kit on my 392 and I've seen some people saying that it would be a good idea to install meth injection to protect the pistons.

The 8lbs kit should be ok for the stock bottom end but I always like to be safe than sorry. Especially after dumping almost 8k into the vehicle for the whole kit, fuel pump, gauges and miscellaneous tools and things for the install.

I don't know yet if I would be tuning for the meth to get more power yet since I want it more for safety.

Has anyone done this setup? Looking for some feedback.

Thinking of going with the Snow Performance kit with the upgraded tank in the trunk.


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[Big Daddy’s R/T]

Jumping on to "learn". Good thread.

 

[Indy392]

You should contact Magnuson to see if the meth will have any adverse effect on the rotors or internals of the blower. Some say it eats the coating off the rotors, and some say it helps keep the rotors clean (pcv system oil).

 

[Flat Top]

I know people who run the meth. IMO I wouldnt tune for it in the case it fails. Not worth the gamble to tune for.
Just run 100octane fuel or better at 7.75 a gal or dont run no timing youll be fine,

Water / Meth injection will cool the charge. But Im not sure on the blower rotors, hate to see those get tore up.
Good Luck and keep us in the loop.
Flattop

 

[jpancer]

Thanks for the input so far. I'll definitely check with Magnuson regarding the effects of the meth on the rotors.

I have also heard people say not to tune for it just in case it fails. That's why I was planning to just use it as a safety precaution for the pistons. I'm hoping that the cooler charge will give me some slight addition power without tuning


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[jpancer]

Which kit do people recommend for these cars and a supercharger setup?


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[Rippin09]

I use and have been installing the AIS kits at our shop, the magnusons we use it on have had zero adverse affects on the rotors running -35 or -45 windshield washer fluid ( what I use too ) and several have close to 40,000 miles. I have seen the coating start to come off when the guys mix 50 / 50 water to methyl hydrate but no adverse affects on power or reliability ( the fine mist actually helps create a better seal on the rotors).
I tuned for it and love it as do our customers, it does provide a race gas on demand kind of function, it cleans the engine, reduces IAT temperatures, extremely reduces EGT's and combustion temps making the pistons way happier. I currently make over 650 RWHP on the stock 6.1L ( and have been for several years ) at 14 psi peak boost on the procharger.
If your adding it strictly for a safety net, do not go crazy on the jet sizing, use it just to take the EGT's down some and you will be fine, it will still provide a bit of extra power.
It is not for everyone and it is like anything else, if you have it, do what you can to learn how it works and understand its purpose and you will have no problems.

 

[KJ392]

Which kit do people recommend for these cars and a supercharger setup?


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I'm running a Snow Stage 1 which is for boosted application however I am N/A'd. I run the 325mL nozzle and use a VC-25 controller to fire the pump. This controller uses voltage from the MAP sensor. Boosted is easier as you can use a boost switch. I fire my pump balls on at 2.5 volts at the MAP sensor whcih is close to 3K RPM. Under 3K and it will bog.
50/50 mix of water to meth richens me up .5 to .7 A/Fs. 100% meth and it is 1.5 A/Fs so you have to keep that in mind. Methanol is cheap at the track, $4 a gallon and mixed 50%, a gallon will last quite a while. Always use distilled water as it has no minerals that can clog the nozzle.
It is good insurance for those running more than 6 LBs of boost on a 392 with a stock bottom end.
Your tunner should tune you safe and rich without W/M (mid to low 11:1 A/Fs) then you can set your w/m to come on when your in boost. More meth = more power so a lot of boosted guys run close to staright meth at the track but they tune for it (less fuel and more timing) as it will really richen them up.
60%/40% meth/water will give you octane and cooling benefits. Straight meth doesn't cool near as well but really bumps up the octane which can enable more timing.
Congrats on your new found power...

 

[Tremel22]

I'm running the stage 1 kit from Nitrous Express which is the same parts and pump as the Snow kits. I went to the dyno yesterday and did some runs without making any adjustments and the water/meth(-20 degree washer fluid) would richen the a/f by .2 or .3 points. The pump kicks on from the boost switch which starts at 3psi and is fully on at 6psi. W/O the meth I was putting down 512rwhp and after making a few minor adjustments I put down 572rwhp on my Procharger set up that makes about 7.5psi of boost. Water/meth is a major plus!!!


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[jpancer]

I use and have been installing the AIS kits at our shop, the magnusons we use it on have had zero adverse affects on the rotors running -35 or -45 windshield washer fluid ( what I use too ) and several have close to 40,000 miles. I have seen the coating start to come off when the guys mix 50 / 50 water to methyl hydrate but no adverse affects on power or reliability ( the fine mist actually helps create a better seal on the rotors).
I tuned for it and love it as do our customers, it does provide a race gas on demand kind of function, it cleans the engine, reduces IAT temperatures, extremely reduces EGT's and combustion temps making the pistons way happier. I currently make over 650 RWHP on the stock 6.1L ( and have been for several years ) at 14 psi peak boost on the procharger.
If your adding it strictly for a safety net, do not go crazy on the jet sizing, use it just to take the EGT's down some and you will be fine, it will still provide a bit of extra power.
It is not for everyone and it is like anything else, if you have it, do what you can to learn how it works and understand its purpose and you will have no problems.

Thanks for the info. I've been reading up on meth injection for quite some time so I understand the basics regarding what it does and the basics of how it's installed.

I have also read about people advising against it with too mount superchargers because of corrosion to the rotors.

I haven't heard of AIS but I'll look them up.

Would you be able to give me some info on nozzle size I should be going with?


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[jpancer]

I'm running a Snow Stage 1 which is for boosted application however I am N/A'd. I run the 325mL nozzle and use a VC-25 controller to fire the pump. This controller uses voltage from the MAP sensor. Boosted is easier as you can use a boost switch. I fire my pump balls on at 2.5 volts at the MAP sensor whcih is close to 3K RPM. Under 3K and it will bog.
50/50 mix of water to meth richens me up .5 to .7 A/Fs. 100% meth and it is 1.5 A/Fs so you have to keep that in mind. Methanol is cheap at the track, $4 a gallon and mixed 50%, a gallon will last quite a while. Always use distilled water as it has no minerals that can clog the nozzle.
It is good insurance for those running more than 6 LBs of boost on a 392 with a stock bottom end.
Your tunner should tune you safe and rich without W/M (mid to low 11:1 A/Fs) then you can set your w/m to come on when your in boost. More meth = more power so a lot of boosted guys run close to staright meth at the track but they tune for it (less fuel and more timing) as it will really richen them up.
60%/40% meth/water will give you octane and cooling benefits. Straight meth doesn't cool near as well but really bumps up the octane which can enable more timing.
Congrats on your new found power...

Thanks for the info. Really helpful. Going to do some more research regarding nozzle size and controller settings for the meth injection before pulling the trigger on the kit.

As I mentioned before, I've gotten some info on Snow Performance's products and their stuff looks pretty easy, straightforward to install, and good quality.


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[jpancer]

I'm running the stage 1 kit from Nitrous Express which is the same parts and pump as the Snow kits. I went to the dyno yesterday and did some runs without making any adjustments and the water/meth(-20 degree washer fluid) would richen the a/f by .2 or .3 points. The pump kicks on from the boost switch which starts at 3psi and is fully on at 6psi. W/O the meth I was putting down 512rwhp and after making a few minor adjustments I put down 572rwhp on my Procharger set up that makes about 7.5psi of boost. Water/meth is a major plus!!!


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What adjustments did you make when you were running the meth to get that extra power?

Why do you have the meth coming on at 3 psi and not right at 1 psi when the boost kicks in?

Last, what is the different meth volume when you use the different anti-freeze washer fluids? Didn't realize the different ones make a diference. I was planning to use the boost juice from Snow Performance.


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[Tremel22]

What adjustments did you make when you were running the meth to get that extra power?

Why do you have the meth coming on at 3 psi and not right at 1 psi when the boost kicks in?

Last, what is the different meth volume when you use the different anti-freeze washer fluids? Didn't realize the different ones make a diference. I was planning to use the boost juice from Snow Performance.


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With the water/meth spraying it made my already rich tune even richer go figure right, without the water/meth spraying the a/f ratio was a pretty fat 11.2 with the water/meth spraying it richen it up even more to about 10.9 to 11.0. So after talking with my tuner we decided that the motor was screaming for a bit more timing through out the whole rpm range and also needed to be slightly leaned out in the low to mid range RPMs to get my a/f ratio to a 11.8 or 11.9 and still have a safety margin in case anything went wrong like pump failure. So we made those adjustments to get that power.
I also have the water/meth coming on at 3psi because it would bog the motor down quite a bit coming on that early it still bogs the motor slightly when kicking on but I rather be safe than sorry so we didn't tune for it aggressively.
Also I've read the more meth the higher octane traits it will have, more water the better cooling effect and slower combustion rates so on and so on but I simply use the windshield wiper fluid -20 straight blue no other colors because it's cheap and readily available boost juice is completely fine to use I believe that mixture is 51% water and 49% meth so you should see some pretty consistent power using that mixture. I think I may even try the stuff when I'm close to using all of the windshield wiper fluid.


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[jpancer]

With the water/meth spraying it made my already rich tune even richer go figure right, without the water/meth spraying the a/f ratio was a pretty fat 11.2 with the water/meth spraying it richen it up even more to about 10.9 to 11.0. So after talking with my tuner we decided that the motor was screaming for a bit more timing through out the whole rpm range and also needed to be slightly leaned out in the low to mid range RPMs to get my a/f ratio to a 11.8 or 11.9 and still have a safety margin in case anything went wrong like pump failure. So we made those adjustments to get that power.
I also have the water/meth coming on at 3psi because it would bog the motor down quite a bit coming on that early it still bogs the motor slightly when kicking on but I rather be safe than sorry so we didn't tune for it aggressively.
Also I've read the more meth the higher octane traits it will have, more water the better cooling effect and slower combustion rates so on and so on but I simply use the windshield wiper fluid -20 straight blue no other colors because it's cheap and readily available boost juice is completely fine to use I believe that mixture is 51% water and 49% meth so you should see some pretty consistent power using that mixture. I think I may even try the stuff when I'm close to using all of the windshield wiper fluid.


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Interesting.. Are you using the 625 nozzle with the power you're putting down? Have you tried the 375?


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[Tremel22]

I'm using the 625 nozzle on my setup and I have not tried the 375 but I recommend you use the 625 all the way at your power level.


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[jpancer]

I'm using the 625 nozzle on my setup and I have not tried the 375 but I recommend you use the 625 all the way at your power level.


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I was thinking the same. Just wanted to see if you've tried the smaller nozzle since you mention you get some bogging. I read that you can turn down the pressure on the pump a bit as well. It may help with the bogging.


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[Tremel22]

Yes u can turn screw that's at the top of the pump clockwise to make the pump kick on at a higher psi of boost but the bog I get is very slight and u can only see it on the dyno graph I really don't feel it at all. How power are u putting down with your setup?


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[KJ392]

With the water/meth spraying it made my already rich tune even richer go figure right, without the water/meth spraying the a/f ratio was a pretty fat 11.2 with the water/meth spraying it richen it up even more to about 10.9 to 11.0. So after talking with my tuner we decided that the motor was screaming for a bit more timing through out the whole rpm range and also needed to be slightly leaned out in the low to mid range RPMs to get my a/f ratio to a 11.8 or 11.9 and still have a safety margin in case anything went wrong like pump failure. So we made those adjustments to get that power.
I also have the water/meth coming on at 3psi because it would bog the motor down quite a bit coming on that early it still bogs the motor slightly when kicking on but I rather be safe than sorry so we didn't tune for it aggressively.
Also I've read the more meth the higher octane traits it will have, more water the better cooling effect and slower combustion rates so on and so on but I simply use the windshield wiper fluid -20 straight blue no other colors because it's cheap and readily available boost juice is completely fine to use I believe that mixture is 51% water and 49% meth so you should see some pretty consistent power using that mixture. I think I may even try the stuff when I'm close to using all of the windshield wiper fluid.


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If you have a drag strip near you, they probably sell meth for ~$4 a gallon. That and distilled water is the cheapest route that I have found. Not a lot of sub zero washer fluid here in TX...
A lot of boosted guys run staright meth for the octane but hen they tune for it but you are correct, the best cooling is a 50/50 mix. Water cools better than the meth.

 

[jpancer]

Yes u can turn screw that's at the top of the pump clockwise to make the pump kick on at a higher psi of boost but the bog I get is very slight and u can only see it on the dyno graph I really don't feel it at all. How power are u putting down with your setup?


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I just installed my supercharger setup a couple weeks ago and haven't had a chance to dyno yet.

According to Steve White Motors and Arrington I should be putting down 530-540 with my overall setup & tune.

I'm planning to get a trinity to data log and get my car on a dyno within the next couple weeks.

I hope it happens fast but I'm living ok an island and getting stuff here as well as setting up a dyno appointment often take long


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[Phinatic]

I'm running the Snow Stage 2 kit with my 8.5 psi ProCharger Stage II. I'm using the .375 nozzle and it's located about 4 inches from the throttle body. Since I'm injecting right into the already compressed airflow, I don't need the larger nozzle for the boost I'm running. My AFR drops anywhere from .3 to .5 when spraying. I tapped into the stock wiper tank and use my wiper fluid. I add two 9oz bottles of heet to one gallon of Peak -20 wiper fluid, which makes it close to a 50/50 mix. Be careful if using wiper fluid rated below -20, as most manufacturers add propylene alcohol (which is potentially harmful to your motor) to lower the temperature rating.