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2016 Dodge Challenger Scatpack Torred
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone. I found this kit on Modern Muscle Xtreme for the following:

454 HEMI Stroker Engine- 6.4L Based by Modern Muscle Performance

The MMX Standard Features!• Performance Tri-Metal Anti-Friction Coated Rod Bearings
• Performance Tri-Metal Main Bearings
• 4.250 Stroke Molnar Crankshaft
• 6.125 Molnar Rod With Proprietary ARP 2000 Bolt
• DLC coated H13 wrist pins standard!
• 2618 Mahle Pistons With Ring Land & Skirt Coatings
• Premium Steel Ring Pack 1/1/2mm
• Line Honed With Head Torque Plates
• ARP Main Studs

Not only is this engine advertised to hit 600 RWHP, but it's also fairly cheap. I know 6.4L supercharged units have a history of blowing up due to pistons and what not, but this sounds like a great first step with plenty of power. Not sure what other money would have to go into this build, but what do you all think? Please let me know.

Thanks.
 

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2016 Dodge Challenger Scatpack Torred
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Discussion Starter #2
Hey everyone. I found this kit on Modern Muscle Xtreme for the following:

454 HEMI Stroker Engine- 6.4L Based by Modern Muscle Performance

The MMX Standard Features!• Performance Tri-Metal Anti-Friction Coated Rod Bearings
• Performance Tri-Metal Main Bearings
• 4.250 Stroke Molnar Crankshaft
• 6.125 Molnar Rod With Proprietary ARP 2000 Bolt
• DLC coated H13 wrist pins standard!
• 2618 Mahle Pistons With Ring Land & Skirt Coatings
• Premium Steel Ring Pack 1/1/2mm
• Line Honed With Head Torque Plates
• ARP Main Studs

Not only is this engine advertised to hit 600 RWHP, but it's also fairly cheap. I know 6.4L supercharged units have a history of blowing up due to pistons and what not, but this sounds like a great first step with plenty of power. Not sure what other money would have to go into this build, but what do you all think? Please let me know.

Thanks.
 

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My only concern with engine displacements beyond 440 on the 6.4 or 6.2 blocks is that your cylinder walls between each cylinder will be just a little bit thinner, and you'll have a longer stroke, which could introduce some stress issues on some parts due to the different geometry. However, David Weber at Modern Muscle is the modern HEMI guru, if he and his team designed it I'm inclined to trust it for longevity so long as the rest of the engine is built right. Just keep in mind, this thing is going to be even more of a gas hog than the 392 already is!


Is this a stroker kit, a short block, or a long block? Or a completed crate engine?

If this is just a stroker kit, I'm thinking for a build like this, just for the engine you'll need a ported intake, bigger throttle body, bigger fuel injectors, a different cam, an MDS delete kit, long tube headers (get the catted midpipes, don't walk around smelling like gas), maybe even ported and polished heads. And you might as well upgrade your heads while you're at it with upgraded springs, push rods, Hellcat lifters, and Stanke tie bar collars, especially with a new cam.

If it's a short block, you'll still need everything but the cam. If it's a long block, you just need the manifold, throttle body, injectors, and headers.

Now you have to also think about tuning both your engine and transmission. Tuning your engine will require an unlocked PCM and a tuner device. If you have an auto, the 8HP70 trans will definitely need tuning to be able to hold the extra power and torque without slipping. I don't know anything about the 6 speed manuals. You don't necessarily need a dyno tune, some tuners do really well with email tunes if you can send them some data logs, but I would recommend a dyno tune for best and safest results from someone well-qualified. That costs even more than the email tune does.

You should also definitely think about getting wider wheels and tires (at LEAST 305's) to be able to put down all that power, and you might want to consider an upgraded 1 piece drive shaft. Your half shafts in your rear end should be okay.

That's everything you'll need to make the most of your new engine and do it safely with this kind of build. Keep in mind labor costs if you're not building it yourself or if you're buying a completed short or long block; for this kind of money it would likely be cheaper and simpler to buy a Whipple supercharger and run it on 6.5 pounds of boost on a stock 392. You'll get about 150-200 more wheel horsepower than stock out of that depending on the tune, and the 392 can safely handle that boost level in stock form. It's when you start going over 7 PSI that it gets dangerous for these engines.

Granted, supercharging adds weight to the front end on an already-heavy car that biases its weight to the front, and a little more complexity to your car, and I'm told that it's best to build the engine properly with supercharging in mind from the get-go for the greatest reliability and driveability.

So, it all depends on what it is you're looking for. All-motor NA cars are wonderful, but usually a much more expensive route to go down to do it properly (unless building it yourself) vs. just throwing boost from a positive displacement supercharger at the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Wow. That's quite a lot you detailed. It is a short block engine with all parts mentioned above runs about $6K only. Along with labor and everything you just mentioned to add to this build, what am I looking at roughly? Without the supercharger, at the moment.
 

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Wow. That's quite a lot you detailed. It is a short block engine with all parts mentioned above runs about $6K only. Along with labor and everything you just mentioned to add to this build, what am I looking at roughly? Without the supercharger, at the moment.
Sorry, I was mistaken, you'll still need a cam to go with the short block. I also forgot to add you'll need a higher stall torque converter.

I can't give you an exact figure on labor as I don't have experience working in a shop and I haven't done a build like this myself, but in engine and trans parts, you're probably looking at:

Upgraded and ported heads: $2300

New cam with timing set, MDS delete kit with lifters, new push rods and phaser limiter: $2168

Stanke Rocker Shaft Stabilizers: $340

New torque converter: $1400

Stainless Works LT headers and catted midpipes: ~$1500

95mm Hellcat throttle body with adapter kit: $645

Ported Intake Manifold: $375

1000cc fuel injectors: $630

Total engine parts cost: $9358

Now factor in $900 for the unlocked PCM, $300-$500 for the tuner, and I'm not sure how much engine and trans tuning together costs. Well over $1000 I'm sure.

Unfortunately, being cool and going fast aren't cheap!
 

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I certainly see the appeal in a big rip snorting NA motor putting out over 600 WHP, but in terms of value for dollar, I think most 392 people are better off going with:

A) a custom grind NSR cam from MMX (although I'd still upgrade the springs just to be safe) or Max Effort cam with the MDS delete kit, LT headers with midpipes, ported and cleaned up intake, Fastman 84mm throttle body, a Hellcat airbox and factory filter, and a solid engine and trans tune. You can easily clear 500 WHP with all of that. Maybe throw in a 3.70 rear gear and you'll be on the heels of stock Hellcats.

B) 2.9 Whipple running 6 pounds of boost with a tune
 

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Stock intake and heads will still be the choke point for an N/A build. Even if you rebuild the heads and hog out the intake. Planning for future boost is another story.
 

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It’s great if you know for a fact you will stay NA. If you plan to add boost in the future then I would do the 426 way before the 454.
 

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It’s great if you know for a fact you will stay NA. If you plan to add boost in the future then I would do the 426 way before the 454.
I plan to stay NA myself as well but if I do a stroker build I'm not sure if I want to go all the way up to 454, due to geometry and longevity/reliability concerns. Plus, I'm kind of attached to the number for historical reasons. Assuming I have the right cam, heads, intake manifold, and throttle body, I see no reason why I can't make 600-650 horsepower at the crank with a 426, which is all I'm really looking for.
 

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I plan to stay NA myself as well but if I do a stroker build I'm not sure if I want to go all the way up to 454, due to geometry and longevity/reliability concerns. Plus, I'm kind of attached to the number for historical reasons. Assuming I have the right cam, heads, intake manifold, and throttle body, I see no reason why I can't make 600-650 horsepower at the crank with a 426, which is all I'm really looking for.
That would be an awesome build. I like the 426 for all the reasons you mentioned.
 

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I plan to stay NA myself as well but if I do a stroker build I'm not sure if I want to go all the way up to 454, due to geometry and longevity/reliability concerns. Plus, I'm kind of attached to the number for historical reasons. Assuming I have the right cam, heads, intake manifold, and throttle body, I see no reason why I can't make 600-650 horsepower at the crank with a 426, which is all I'm really looking for.
Have you looked into HHP/BES 440 stroker instead? A little safer on the geometry side and still a nostalgic Mopar number. With all the bells and whistles, you should be able to eek out a low 6xxWHP dyno sheet. This is the route i'm going down when I get the funds lol. I ran a rough estimate for this setup from their website and came up with max parts cost of around 19-20K. Figure about 40-50 hours for install/tune at $125/hr So around another 7K for install.
 

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Have you looked into HHP/BES 440 stroker instead? A little safer on the geometry side and still a nostalgic Mopar number. With all the bells and whistles, you should be able to eek out a low 6xxWHP dyno sheet. This is the route i'm going down when I get the funds lol. I ran a rough estimate for this setup from their website and came up with max parts cost of around 19-20K. Figure about 40-50 hours for install/tune at $125/hr So around another 7K for install.
Lol, too rich for my blood as of right now. For now, I'll stick to a cam and full bolt-ons, MAYBE ported heads.

If I'm going to do a stroker build, I'll get a 426 or 440 short block from HHP and do all the assembly myself, and take however long it takes me to learn. And I have an uncle as a mechanic to advise me. I only want to pay someone to tune it, not build it.
 
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