Dodge Challenger Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was in getting an oil change about 10 days ago & find this in the back room for surgery. Apparently, it was smoking right off the car hauler. Guy who ordered it was very bummed. Would you trust the dealer to diagnose & fix it, or would you try to find another?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,905 Posts
I was in getting an oil change about 10 days ago & find this in the back room for surgery. Apparently, it was smoking right off the car hauler. Guy who ordered it was very bummed. Would you trust the dealer to diagnose & fix it, or would you try to find another?

Up to the buyer I guess. My only experience (2nd/3rd hand) in this area is back in 2002 I came up a very low miles 996 on the Porsche dealer used car lot. I asked the salesman about the car.


The story is the engine developed a ticking noise. As per the factory the lifters were replaced. Don't remember if both banks were replaced but my info is a noisy lifter on a bank results in all lifters being replaced on that bank. So at least one bank got all new lifters (intake and exhaust).



Afterwards the engine was quiet. But the owner refused to accept the car after the repair. His position -- paraphrasing it -- was the car was ruined for him by the fact the new car needed that kind of engine work. The dealer accommodated him by taking the car back and he got another car but I don't know the details. The salesman did say he was a good customer. To give you an idea of what this can mean, another "good" customer, a woman, ordered a new Porsche Turbo. To have something to drive in the meantime she bought a lesser model 996 to have to drive for the few months until her new Turbo arrived.


The Demon owner has to decide if he wants to let things run their normal course and let the dealer repair (or attempt at least to repair) the car. If the owner goes this route he needs to be very thorough in his checkout of the car/engine afterwards. Just don't accept the car and drive it home and park it or when driving it ignore any issues thinking they'll get better with more miles/time. A thorough road test/shake down test is is called for.



Or the owner can argue the car is ruined for him -- like the 996 owner I mentioned above --- and he will have no enjoyment of the car because of its problem so soon after delivery. The dealer might be sympathetic (as sympathetic as a car dealer can be) and accommodate the Demon owner somehow. The problem is I believe is the Demon is near or at the end of its manufacturing run. Thus an order for a new Demon might not be possible. The dealer might have to acquire a suitable replacement Demon from another dealer. It is my understanding dealers swap/exchange cars once in a while and each pays the other dealer its cost for the car and split the transportation cost.


But the other dealer might not want to accept the Demon after its engine trouble for it might prove to be a tough car to sale and especially if the dealer had a big ADM added to the sticker price, so a trade for a Demon for a Demon might not fly. The dealer with the fixed Demon might have to keep it -- and of course sell it -- and then buy another Demon from another dealer. I think these transactions happen at dealer cost but I'm not 100% sure of this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
So what all did you say there? You basically ended-up where this all started.



Personally, on such a specialized engine & package, I would NOT take delivery on this car, nor would I take delivery on any new car that was repainted for that matter. I've had 2 Mopar vehicles & a GM truck that developed engine problems while fairly new & under warranty, & none of them went well at all after the dealer repairs. Now if this Demon went back to Chrysler engineering & was repaired in an engineering lab, that would be a different story - I would probably accept the car with an extended powertrain warranty thrown-in. The dealer THIS particular car is at is no white room, & I don't trust any of the mechanics there to do any more than oil changes & basic service.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
747 Posts
16 valve, pushrod V8. Fix it and run it.


My mentality. If I had the money to buy the car I would not have taken it to the dealership for repairs.
Take it to a performance shop and have them fix the motor and I’d be modding it anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,602 Posts
I know that the buyer probably waited a long time for delivery, but why take a chance on such a big investment?

I would have them find a new Demon or, as a last resort, offer an extended warranty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,161 Posts
It smoked off of the delivery truck, I bet the purchaser never took delivery of the car, I would not have. So basically it would be "No Sale", the only problem is did the buyer pay a non refundable deposit?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,837 Posts
It smoked off of the delivery truck, I bet the purchaser never took delivery of the car, I would not have. So basically it would be "No Sale", the only problem is did the buyer pay a non refundable deposit?
Same thought here - I'm not accepting an $85K vehicle with obvious manufacturing defect - either this wasn't caught during the inspection process...

Or somebody did something entirely stupid during the loading / loading "hey look at this" like starting a stone cold engine and revving the damn thing to redline to impress their buddies in the yard...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,965 Posts
Demon production ended back in June so if he wants a new Demon, he might be stuck with it. Don't think any dealer with a Demon in stock would be willing to trade with this dealer considering the high price that the Demon still commands.

FCA will probably just send the dealer another engine and that as far as they will go, doubt there would be a buy back unless there are other issues.

And this car was obviously new to the original owner but with many other Demons that was not the case. Those cars were flipped like crazy and if you bought a flipped car you might technically be the second owner and lemon laws and buy backs would not apply to you. Buyer beware.





Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
976 Posts
Demon production ended back in June so if he wants a new Demon, he might be stuck with it. Don't think any dealer with a Demon in stock would be willing to trade with this dealer considering the high price that the Demon still commands.

FCA will probably just send the dealer another engine and that as far as they will go, doubt there would be a buy back unless there are other issues.


And this car was obviously new to the original owner but with many other Demons that was not the case. Those cars were flipped like crazy and if you bought a flipped car you might technically be the second owner and lemon laws and buy backs would not apply to you. Buyer beware.





Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
I think the parts of your post I highlighted would save the day on this car for the owner.

First I'd probably insist that a NEW Engine is installed. I wouldn't want to trust that that engine my BRAND NEW CAR has been taken apart and reassemble to factory spec by a mechanic in the local dealership.

I would be willing to accept a BRAND NEW Motor is installed without issues worth worrying about.......but a tear down.......is a deal breaker for sure.

As to the idea of Dodge taking the car back?

I'm not sure it would have to come to that. Given the prices Demon's command as what may be the ONLY modern Challenger that may actually hold it's value and appreciate over time this is a car no dealer would worry much about selling later. I bet if he doesn't want to take delivery the dealer would be willing to sell him a new Hell Cat instead and take this car into inventory. The dealer should actually be able to make MORE MONEY on this deal than he could if the buyer takes his Demon home after the repair.
 

·
Registered
2016 Scat Pack Shaker
Joined
·
586 Posts
With only 3300 Demons is existence it's a very special automobile. I definitely would not take delivery of a Demon with a defective engine or an engine that was rebuilt at the dealership. Not dissing the dealership or the technicians but dealership engine repair is just not the solution for this problem. Family Crusin Youtube network had a his dealership install a new engine in his Hellcat, the car burned and was totalled only a few miles after the install was completed. Most dealership are just not positioned to deal with major issues with the super high performance cars. If it were mine I would want the car returned to FCA for analysis and a new engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
To be clear, the dealer told me the guy that ordered the car refused delivery, so they tore it down to determine the cause of the smoke. This car should be returned to a Chrysler tech garage @ CTC for a new engine install. Like some have said previously, I would also NOT trust a dealer tech to even swap a motor in a car like this. I have never had a successful experience with any car dealer doing internal engine repairs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,905 Posts
So what all did you say there? You basically ended-up where this all started.



Personally, on such a specialized engine & package, I would NOT take delivery on this car, nor would I take delivery on any new car that was repainted for that matter. I've had 2 Mopar vehicles & a GM truck that developed engine problems while fairly new & under warranty, & none of them went well at all after the dealer repairs. Now if this Demon went back to Chrysler engineering & was repaired in an engineering lab, that would be a different story - I would probably accept the car with an extended powertrain warranty thrown-in. The dealer THIS particular car is at is no white room, & I don't trust any of the mechanics there to do any more than oil changes & basic service.

Because is really is up to the buyer, although how far he went into the buying process plays a role and if he went far enough to be considered the owner of the car, even if he didn't take physical possession of the car, the law can then be on the factory's side.

(Consumer laws come into play and I'm not an expert on consumer law, or any law for that matter.)

But I think it safe to say at some point if he owns the car then what Dodge does falls under the warranty fine print. I have not seen the details of a Dodge Demon warranty but generally all automakers print the same fine print. The warranty gives the automaker a lot of leeway in how it addresses a warranty problem. It can attempt to repair the system (engine in this case) with new or re-manufactured (used) components. Or it can choose to replace the entire system (engine).

Full engine replacement is not a given if the symptoms can be addressed with selective component replacement.

If Dodge decides to replace the engine it may not be with an engine hot off the engine assembly line.

Instead Dodge could (would probably) use an engine that was taken out of another Demon due to the same or any other of a number of issues, re-manufactured (repaired) and then placed in stock for just such an occasion.

I seriously doubt Dodge would authorize the car be shipped all the way back to the factory for repairs. (This would cost I estimate upwards of $1000.) Which factory? The assembly factory where the engine was bolted into the car or the engine factory where the engine was made?

Somewhere there is some one who is responsible for going over returned engines and resurrecting them but I doubt he would be accessible to the owner of this Demon.

For better or worse the dealer is the factory's proxy when it comes to engine tear down/repair. My indirect experience with other brands of cars is Dodge will probably have the dealer attempt a repair -- even though the dealer tech might recognize the engine is not repairable -- before Dodge authorizes the engine be replaced.

(This happened more than once with another brand of car. A relatively new car came back with engine troubles. The techs had been down this road before and knew the engine was not going to be repairable by just replacing a few parts. But the factory guidelines called for this so they did what the factory required. And with the same lack of success as before. This was reported back to the factory of course and eventually the factory got to the point it ok'd engine replacement and sent along an engine.)

What the prospective buyer or owner does depends upon how he feels and what options (as a prospective buyer or owner) are open to him. While it is easy to say one would refuse the car that might not be a real option at least at the outset. The factory/manufacturer has to have some opportunity to make things right. Only if it fails or the car spends too much time in the shop for this or possibly other issues can the car possibly be classified as a "lemon". And this depends upon the state's lemon laws. CA has pretty good lemon law but other states maybe not so good.

It will be interesting to follow this and see how it turns out.

To be sure I feel for the Demon buyer (owner?) and I hope things get resolved to his 100% satisfaction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,965 Posts
He refused delivery so warranty and lemon laws don't apply, FCA still owns this car and has to decide what they want to do to make it acceptable to the guy that ordered it or someone else if he bails.

If he wanted it for a long term collector car then he will be screwed with a new engine or short block and losing the original matching numbers block but that is of no concern to FCA, they just want it fixed.

They wouldn't ship the car anywhere, they would just send the dealer a new engine/short block to install. I'd pass on it too, maybe a Redeye instead although long term value probably less.


Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,126 Posts
I would only buy it if a new motor was shipped and an extended warranty was provided. I would definitely refuse it to be repaired at the dealer!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,602 Posts
With only 3300 Demons is existence it's a very special automobile.Not dissing the dealership or the technicians but dealership engine repair is just not the solution for this problem.

Why, are you afraid of these techs? Here they are installing a new engine. :laugh2:
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top