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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I only wish I could get this sound out of the TA or even just get it's best sound for so very much less than the$1,400 price tag attached to active exhaust solutions. for the modern Challenger.

Anyway.......got the old Corvette exhaust note where I want it with some chambered mufflers added. New car tech has so very many advantages over old but sound isn't one of them. At the end is a quick acceleration, lost traction and lots of hitting the rev limiter before "hooking up" but unfortunately the "Go Pro" doesn't really capture the sound out side in the wind as well as it does in the garage or at idle in the driveway.

 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Yeah, I bet! I like it though! The lope to that idle you've managed to get costs $$$ today. Cam, head work and all the associated supporting pieces to make it all work have never been more expensive than it is today. Especially for the "mopar" faithful. Seems like it's just the price you pay for modern tech. It's hard to tell from just the idle. Headers must be part of the package I'd assume and I have to ask are there "cats" in place or are you running "straight pipes"? No small part of the reason my 392 is unlikely to ever see any sort of "build" boils down to keeping it, legal, within warranty, reliable and street-able with out issues.
 

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Yea, went catless with Kooks long tubes, Mini Bullet mid muffs and OE resos. Cam is a custom grind and 13:1 compression on pump gas. Built to be a daily driver and cruise machine believe it or not :)
 

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:dunno:Make a high quality recording of the exhaust of your choice and play it back over your premium sound system. Problem solved.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Yea, went catless with Kooks long tubes, Mini Bullet mid muffs and OE resos. Cam is a custom grind and 13:1 compression on pump gas. Built to be a daily driver and cruise machine believe it or not :)
13:1.........cruiser?

Where do you find gasoline for that these days? Even with computer controlled ignition timing and fuel delivery that sounds like an engine that requires "race gas" to avoid being hobbled by retarded timing on pump gas.

By way of a comparison (yes I know you understand all this stuff but maybe not everyone reading will).....in a traditional set up like my old Corvette in the video just 10:1 compression requires premium pump gas and even at that the only reason I can get away with it safely is a long duration/high lift cam that limits the time in each compression stroke just enough to let an engine without the HIGH TECH knock sensors and computer controlled ignition timing to survive even this MODEST amount of "SQUEEZE".

Here in New Hampshire 93 Octane is what most Gas Stations carry so I'm a little safer than in a State where 91 is considered "Premium".........but we are a long way from the days of leaded gasoline and the over 100 octane fuel at the pump.


It's quite the testament to Modern Tech that 11:1 is pretty common today. Virtually nothing without a computer could make it's best power SAFELY on pump gas at 11:1.

10 years before my '79 Corvette was built there were lots factory delivered 11:1 motors in street cars, some higher than that......after the removal of lead and the subsequent drop in octane and tail pipe testing for emissions in the mid 1970s this Red Corvette in the video might still have been the RACIEST looking car of 1979 that you could buy.......and it's L82 350 was still a 4 bolt block..........BUT......you really got the "look" and no performance to back it up. It's weak HP figures and over-all dismal performance was in no small part due to it's flat as Montana cam profile, piss poor head design and the low compression ratio. I laugh today at the fact there are actually Corvette guys out there who'd prioritize the L82 option over the base model engine in these late 70s Corvettes. I figure that's CRAZY TALK......far better to focus on the condition of the car itself. The original engine should be considered a "throw away".

Given how VERY LOST Detroit's big 3 car makers were in this new era of "cleaner" tail pipe requirements........ if you'd ever told me that we'd eventually be able to buy base Camaros, Mustangs and Challengers with near 500HP and the premium power options in the 600-800HP range....... I'd have thought you were CRAZY!!

So this leads me to an obvious question.

You built your own 426 and that's pretty cool especially since Dodge has yet to see the wisdom and sales potential of offering up as "stock" option ........ any idea how much power you're making?

Is it "all motor" as I would hope for.......or have you done the super charging or turbo route? (still cool if you did but I just like the whole idea of a NA 426 in the image of the past)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
:dunno:Make a high quality recording of the exhaust of your choice and play it back over your premium sound system. Problem solved.
Speakers under the bumper?:laugh2:

Might be hard to get the acceleration vs. cruising vs. idle matched up with how you're driving at the time though.

I'm only half way to taking your suggestion as less than serious........I would bet anything in a KOOKY world full of nutty automotive ideas I'm thinking somewhere, somehow......somebody has attempted it.
 

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Some electric cars come with noise maker speakers since they were hitting pedestrians who could not hear them coming. If I can get sound files downloaded into my HO scale electric trains that almost sound real, it's not that much of a stretch to do the same in 1 to 1 scale for a car with the right sound file and speed sensors. My trains get louder and the sound changes as you accelerate and they even have an idle sound file. I'm sure there is someone else, other than me, that has also considered something like this for the same reason. They already have apps with motor sounds available in App form that I use on my electric work cart to get people to move out of the way without scaring them with the very loud horn. I really need a better speaker for that though since the one in the phone just isn't loud enough. I do use I-Phone 4 speakers in some of my train engines but you would need some woofers for your car or a Bazooka tube.
 

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Some electric cars come with noise maker speakers since they were hitting pedestrians who could not hear them coming. If I can get sound files downloaded into my HO scale electric trains that almost sound real, it's not that much of a stretch to do the same in 1 to 1 scale for a car with the right sound file and speed sensors. My trains get louder and the sound changes as you accelerate and they even have an idle sound file. I'm sure there is someone else, other than me, that has also considered something like this for the same reason. They already have apps with motor sounds available in App form that I use on my electric work cart to get people to move out of the way without scaring them with the very loud horn. I really need a better speaker for that though since the one in the phone just isn't loud enough. I do use I-Phone 4 speakers in some of my train engines but you would need some woofers for your car or a Bazooka tube.
"Alco" sound on a Prius. Heck, I might be able to handle driving one then! Lol
 

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TA: Yep, 13:1 on pump gas. We're even at 91 octane for premium here in Denver with a 5280' elevation. 93 does no good up here (for most cars anyway.). Engine was pro built. My builder used to be on a Cup team and has learned some mad skills over the years. Went for an N/A 426 as an old school guy. Always lusted for 70 Hemi Cuda but cost is way beyond my means now. Actual cubes ended up being closer to 440 but will always be my 426 :) Rings are gapped for nitrous but doubt I'll ever go there. E85 might be a consideration down the road but that's as far as I would care to go. Also went thin ring pistons to help keep friction losses down, custom grind cam, high stall torque converter, cat delete & Kooks headers. Built up the OE alum. heads and ported/honed the OE intake with a Hellcat throttle body. I like to do a couple of open track days a year so installed an oil cooling system plus 160 deg. t'stat.

Still fine tuning but builder is confident we should easily see 550 to the ground on his Mustang dyno.
 

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"Old school" sound is possible but not for $1400 considering the cost of PCM requires modification, tuner, tune, exhaust and cam.


BTW this is not my challenger but I must admit one of my favorite vids of a cammed 5.7.
 

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You will not get old school sound out of today's engines.. back in the day Cylinder heads were horrible flow wise so cams needed a lot of overlap to scavenge the exhaust side leading to the lope that everyone loves . todays OE Hemi heads flow better than the all out race heads from back in the day . if you put that kind of overlap into today's Hemi you would kill the performance. forget how it sounds and go for results.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
You will not get old school sound out of today's engines.. back in the day Cylinder heads were horrible flow wise so cams needed a lot of overlap to scavenge the exhaust side leading to the lope that everyone loves . todays OE Hemi heads flow better than the all out race heads from back in the day . if you put that kind of overlap into today's Hemi you would kill the performance. forget how it sounds and go for results.
The post above yours suggests your quite WRONG about not being able to get the "sound"..... at least that's what his clip is telling my ears.

As for results?

Modern Tech is pretty tough to beat. Incredible MPG and Power is a Combination the old engines with Carburetors on top simply can't even come remotely close to in "stock, from back in the day trim". But I wouldn't be so quick to discount the potential of Updated tech in the older designs for making power.

In a TOY like the old Corvette I put up in the OP MPG isn't much of a consideration worth my effort in a car that sees so very little use each year. The 383 in it today benefits from things that weren't typical and available in anything but super high buck efforts in the 1960s and 70s.

A roller cam with faster ramp speed, computer designed and cut aluminum heads are at the top of the list of things that squeeze out big HP that would have been a lot tougher to find back in the day.

This car is a MILD use of what can be done today with old school tech and yet it'll run the 1/4 mile right along side my 392TA. It's Dyno proven 455HP at the crank is less than the 392 in the TA can make but it's a car that weighs in at just about 3,200pds after all the changes I've made over the years to it's suspension and under the hood so it gives up nothing to the TA in a straight line sprint.

For a look at what can be made of "old school" tech today, if you're willing to spend the money, without power adders like turbos, nitrous or super-charging..... read on and take a peak at the videos. In this MOPAR forum I could and probably should have highlighted a stroked, modern take on the 340 or 360 but since my old Corvette is a SBC so I'm sticking with the theme.

It's hard to call this car built by Nelson racing engines a SLEEPER but I think it just about qualifies and lifting the hood after a race to reveal the "Stock appearance of it's original 302" would be a real surprise for anyone who mistakenly believes it's the original 302. Modern motors have better stock vs stock flow vs. the old muscle motors for sure.......but a lot of the stuff that makes that possible is now being applied to older design starting points in the after market.

This car has a stroked 427 SBC and a carb and heads that flow very well, enough to supply enough flow to make the REALLY BIG power revealed in the video. I really doubt even a Hell Cat could take this car on and expect to win a 1/4 mile sprint. At barely over 3,000pds (that distinct lack of MODERN tech has a big advantage in the leaner weight figures).....650HP is more than enough potential to bury a 700HP car carrying more than a 1,000 extra pds. Though it's still absolutely true that the Hell Cat can achieve 2x and possible 3x the MPG on the ride home vs.old Camaro. God knows if I gotta drive it to work and around town every day I'm not picking the old car over a modern car.





For a more in dept look at the SBC 427 Nelson builds:

 

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TA: Just got off the phone with my builder and he clarified that the 13:1 is static compression. He said normal compression is 11.9:1. That makes sense now.
 

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The post above yours suggests your quite WRONG about not being able to get the "sound"..... at least that's what his clip is telling my ears.

As for results?

Modern Tech is pretty tough to beat. Incredible MPG and Power is a Combination the old engines with Carburetors on top simply can't even come remotely close to in "stock, from back in the day trim". But I wouldn't be so quick to discount the potential of Updated tech in the older designs for making power.

In a TOY like the old Corvette I put up in the OP MPG isn't much of a consideration worth my effort in a car that sees so very little use each year. The 383 in it today benefits from things that weren't typical and available in anything but super high buck efforts in the 1960s and 70s.

A roller cam with faster ramp speed, computer designed and cut aluminum heads are at the top of the list of things that squeeze out big HP that would have been a lot tougher to find back in the day.

This car is a MILD use of what can be done today with old school tech and yet it'll run the 1/4 mile right along side my 392TA. It's Dyno proven 455HP at the crank is less than the 392 in the TA can make but it's a car that weighs in at just about 3,200pds after all the changes I've made over the years to it's suspension and under the hood so it gives up nothing to the TA in a straight line sprint.

For a look at what can be made of "old school" tech today, if you're willing to spend the money, without power adders like turbos, nitrous or super-charging..... read on and take a peak at the videos. In this MOPAR forum I could and probably should have highlighted a stroked, modern take on the 340 or 360 but since my old Corvette is a SBC so I'm sticking with the theme.

It's hard to call this car built by Nelson racing engines a SLEEPER but I think it just about qualifies and lifting the hood after a race to reveal the "Stock appearance of it's original 302" would be a real surprise for anyone who mistakenly believes it's the original 302. Modern motors have better stock vs stock flow vs. the old muscle motors for sure.......but a lot of the stuff that makes that possible is now being applied to older design starting points in the after market.

This car has a stroked 427 SBC and a carb and heads that flow very well, enough to supply enough flow to make the REALLY BIG power revealed in the video. I really doubt even a Hell Cat could take this car on and expect to win a 1/4 mile sprint. At barely over 3,000pds (that distinct lack of MODERN tech has a big advantage in the leaner weight figures).....650HP is more than enough potential to bury a 700HP car carrying more than a 1,000 extra pds. Though it's still absolutely true that the Hell Cat can achieve 2x and possible 3x the MPG on the ride home vs.old Camaro. God knows if I gotta drive it to work and around town every day I'm not picking the old car over a modern car.



Camaro DZ 302(NRE Stealth 427CI) Street Test. 1969. Nelson Racing Engines. Chevelle, Camaro - YouTube


For a more in dept look at the SBC 427 Nelson builds:

New 650 HP NA 427CI(7L) SBC from Nelson Racing Engines. NRE TV Episode 211. - YouTube
You put a lot of time and effort into telling me my OPINION and what I hear is wrong. NRE 427 and the like is old news . in 2005 I built a 427 SBC 13:1 on E85 SR and still race it today.. but thanks for trying to get me current..
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
TA: Just got off the phone with my builder and he clarified that the 13:1 is static compression. He said normal compression is 11.9:1. That makes sense now.
Still pretty high for a street motor and a big "hat tip" to modern tech. PERFECT control of timing and constant monitoring for detention has allowed for Compression ratios that are far higher than is possible in an old school set up without a computer.

It's getting a little deeper into the weeds when we get to talk about "static" compression vs the real world compression, as assembled and running, after the cam choice but again this is one of those things that does have to be considered before choosing components for a build.

You don't hear this as much these days as I did when I was a kid working with my own first performance efforts along with my buddies working on their own cars. Big changes and builds like you've done aren't as easy or cheap as in the past and completely built and pre-assemble crate motors like the one I put in the Corvette from that first post take all the guess work away.

Still.....it hasn't been so very long that I don't remember how often someone would do that top end "build up" of a motor on their own in the 1980s. Often starting out with an emissions era car from the 1973-1983 10 year time period when compression ratios had fallen off a cliff vs the previous decade. A lot of guys would attempt that old model for creating an easy 75-100hp that worked really well in the days of higher compression ratios. The cam, intake, carb and header swap. The result would often be an engine that fell on it's face. Lost low and mid-range power with only modest gains in the top end that made the motor a huge MISTAKE vs what used to be a sure thing power adder.

Clearly that bigger HP figure you're getting has a lot of it's explanation found in a pretty aggressive cam profile. 13:1 static ratio is your builder's attempt to give you MORE top end power with out any excessive loss of low end and mid-range power.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
You put a lot of time and effort into telling me my OPINION and what I hear is wrong. NRE 427 and the like is old news . in 2005 I built a 427 SBC 13:1 on E85 SR and still race it today.. but thanks for trying to get me current..
Maybe so........but honestly. I don't think I could ever say as much about how wrong you are as those videos posted do.

Stumbling idles, due to intake and exhaust over-lap, and the over all racy sound are less commonly heard today but aggressive cams do still produce that same sound in new engines as they did in the older engines.

If you can't hear it? I can't explain that. Regardless of time and effort I might put into it.
 
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