Dodge Challenger Forum banner

1 - 20 of 160 Posts

·
Registered
2020 SPS, M6, Go Mango
Joined
·
190 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Starting a thread to follow my planned build for my stereo. Orange crush, as i call her, has the 6 speaker alpine. I put a stereo in about every car I've had, i love the process. But, up to this point, I've prioritized volume over quality. And i don't mean huge power to subs - biggest I've had is a single 12 in a durango and it was too much. I just never put that much plan into tuning and planning the finer details. Oh, and i need to do it all on a tiny budget. Naturally.

So i am going to focus on speakers first. I have most of the install gear (tools and wires and such), and a rockford 4 channel amp, rated @ 40W RMS @ 4 ohm, 60W @ 2 ohm.

I would like replace all six factory speakers, and id like them to match. it just seems to make sense that they come from the same line and manufacturer. Maybe it makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. Also the less I need to hack into the factory wiring the better.

with all that said, here is where i am at so far. Just planned so far, nothing below purchased yet.

PAC AmpPRO AP4-CH41 - for factory integration. In my dart i hacked together the 4 channel from the factory speaker wires and suffered the consequences. So this gives me pre amp output with what appears to be easy plug and play. But does it actually improve on the factory sound any? Or should i look at something like the Audiocontrol LC6i? I absolutely don't want to lose any factory features. It needs to be "stock but louder and clearer". And the less wires i have to run all over the better.

For speakers, because nothing appears to be in stock @ crutchfield, i have the following. Door and Dash and then Rear Deck

I was looking to stay around $100 per pair. These are not my first choice but i would like to purchase everything from one reputable source, and can pay the few extra bucks to do so. i don't want a third party seller on amazon for one set, then ebay for another, then then then.....

That I am thinking so far. I didn't plan to amplify the front dash...I've already got the four channel. I am a little concerned because the factory speakers appear to be 2 ohm, while aftermarket has limited options in 2 ohm - and i certainly don't want to lose volume. But at the same time, just about any decent aftermarket should be a solid step up.

down the road i will do a mono amp and subs. i actually already have all that stuff laying around, but its not the priority.

Comments/recommendations welcome.
 

·
Premium Member
The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
Joined
·
6,873 Posts
That’s as good a plan as any I’ve seen for these cars and definitely better than most folks who go into it without doing a lick of research.

I’m on my 4th LX, and I’ve started with the base 6 speaker audio package in all, and thus upgraded every car since the base audio package is an embarrassment to anyone listening to music. As such, here are a couple things to consider (keep in mind this is all based on my experience and far from being considered gospel):
  • I have used the LC6i in the last two cars’ upgrades to get the factory head-unit’s signals to my 4 channel and sub amps. It’s a fine device and works very well in many different scenarios. I can’t say if it’s better than the PAC device, but it is a good option for sure.
  • 40w per channel is a little light IMHO, especially for those Kenwood components up front. I have the Excelon component set that has a 7” door speaker and tweeter for the dash instead of the 6x9 and 3.5”, and I’m feeding them 75w @ 4 ohm, and they love it....and I love them! Yours would be similarly pleased with the extra juice IMHO since they are pretty much the same speaker set under the covers.
  • Keeping the previous two items in mind, I will offer up the JL Audio JD400/4 amplifier for your consideration. I’m running that one after trying a string of 4 channel amps in these cars, and it’s the best one yet. The clip light around the gain dials is ingenious, and the high level/voltage input capability can take the place of the LC6i. You need to get (or make) some speaker wire to RCA adapters you plug in the head-unit’s output straight into the amp, but those are easy enough to find (or make), and means one less piece of equipment and the wiring necessary to make it work.
  • those coaxials in the rear deck don’t add a lot to the overall sound. So while you can be forgiven for wanting to get some good quality replacements, the return in sound improvement you get for spending extra money won’t necessarily be there. Get decent ones or even leave the stocks in place rather than buying high quality, you likely won’t hear much difference.
  • To take the previous point one step further, an alternative for upgrading the rear channels is to remove the rear deck coaxials and replace them with a single 8” midrange speaker mounted in that factory sub hole in the rear deck. Bridging the two rear channels off a four channel amp is enough to power it, and if adjusted properly, that single midbase can outperform the two coaxials easily...at least it has for me. Here is the one I currently have, but I previously ran this one, and there isn’t much difference between the two. Not enough to justify the price difference IMHO anyway.
  • Stick with Crutchfield as your source for hardware, you can’t go wrong with them.
 

·
Registered
2020 SPS, M6, Go Mango
Joined
·
190 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Lots to unpack here. I'll get a more thorough response out from a computer. But couple quick thoughts. The mid bass is an interesting idea. I couldn't tell you that I know what it offers that a standard set of 6x9 drivers wouldn't. But I'll look into it.

My four channel was going to be for the doors and deck. Your saying I should do doors and dash amplified?

If I go with the lc6, is there an easy location to tap into speaker wires? In my dart I was running speaker wire all over the place, I don't want to do that again.
 

·
Premium Member
The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
Joined
·
6,873 Posts
Lots to unpack here. I'll get a more thorough response out from a computer. But couple quick thoughts. The mid bass is an interesting idea. I couldn't tell you that I know what it offers that a standard set of 6x9 drivers wouldn't. But I'll look into it.

My four channel was going to be for the doors and deck. Your saying I should do doors and dash amplified?

If I go with the lc6, is there an easy location to tap into speaker wires? In my dart I was running speaker wire all over the place, I don't want to do that again.
The single 8” midbase would replace the two 6.5” speakers in rear deck, and it would augment the upgraded 6x9” in doors and 3.5” in dash.

The front channels (left and right) each have a 6x9” and 3.5” on them. So the two front channels of the 4 ch amp would power all 4 front speakers (2 per channel/side). The components make this easy since they are meant to be wired in parallel by design, and that’s what is done to get the doors and dash on same channel.

As far as wiring in the LC6i, what I did was pull the head-unit out to access the wiring harness plug in the back of it with all the speaker wire pairs coming out. I left a few inches slack from plug and cut the 4 pairs of speaker wires. Then I put bullet connectors on each wire, ran two sets of speaker wire back to trunk and put bullet connectors on those too (behind h/u).

That allowed me to redirect the speaker signals coming out of h/u to send them to trunk where the LC6i is, then the 4ch amp’s output comes back up the other set of speaker wire to cut behind the h/u. From there it reconnects with original speaker wires to be sent out to speakers.

clear as mud?

(it truly sounds more complicated than it is to actually do.)
 

·
Premium Member
The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
Joined
·
6,873 Posts
HOLD THE PHONE!!

I just realized you said you have the alpine system stock. That means you have a factory amp, and that means adding in the LC6i isnt quite like I described.

You will have 6 speaker wires exiting that amp to feed your 6 speakers, as opposed to the 4 exiting my head-unit go feed my 6 speakers.

That means upgrading the front channels will need to take that into consideration. Since you are getting components, you may have to traverse the door plug to wire up in parallel. Or you could just run an extra set of speaker wires from amp’s front channel outputs to connect with the extra set of front speakers...yeah that’s probably the better way to go than messing with the door plug
 

·
Registered
2020 SPS, M6, Go Mango
Joined
·
190 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
It makes sense. I just really don't want to do it. Lol. I was told the speaker wires would head end under the driver seat. So the plan was to put in the PAC pro whatever under the front seat, rca cables to the rear, speaker cables back to the front seat and tap into them there. So one route for all my cabling, done.

If it doesn't head end there, we'll then that plan doesn't work. Where is the stock amp and does it power all six speakers?
 

·
Premium Member
The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
Joined
·
6,873 Posts
It makes sense. I just really don't want to do it. Lol. I was told the speaker wires would head end under the driver seat. So the plan was to put in the PAC pro whatever under the front seat, rca cables to the rear, speaker cables back to the front seat and tap into them there. So one route for all my cabling, done.

If it doesn't head end there, we'll then that plan doesn't work. Where is the stock amp and does it power all six speakers?
stock amp should be behind knee bolster under steering wheel, and yes it will have 6 speaker wires exiting it since it crosses over the head unit sound signals internally before sending to speakers
 

·
Registered
2020 SPS, M6, Go Mango
Joined
·
190 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I didn't realize what I was looking at was a component set. Just thought it was two sets of coax speakers bundled together.
 

·
Registered
2020 SPS, M6, Go Mango
Joined
·
190 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I didn't realize what I was looking at was a component set. Just thought it was two sets of coax speakers bundled together.
I clicked on my own link and see it says component right in the title. Sheesh.

I'll do some more research. I don't know what I don't know about components.
 

·
Premium Member
The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
Joined
·
6,873 Posts
I didn't realize what I was looking at was a component set. Just thought it was two sets of coax speakers bundled together.
Well, technically they aren’t coaxials, but you have the right idea - there are two speakers which are functional by themselves but are bundled together with a passive crossover to make the pair sound even better.

It’s that crossover that has to be accounted for when upgrading the stock systems with amps. Mine is already parallel wires since I only have 4 speaker wires, it’s easy for me to replace the dash with those components highs and the crossover. Yours is more difficult (though not impossible by any means) since you have to do the parallel connection somewhere yourself.
 

·
Registered
2020 SPS, M6, Go Mango
Joined
·
190 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Hmm. I've been looking at the jbl club line and infinity reference. All around the same price range. But neither have all three sizes in stock. Also, they say that 6.5" fits in the deck and the doors, but the 6x9 is factory. One would assume then that the 6.5 would need an adapter to fit in the 6x9 spot.
 

·
Registered
2020 SPS, M6, Go Mango
Joined
·
190 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
So for the rear deck, assuming I don't go mid bass - would I be better served spending $50 on a set vs $100, or just save my money and leave the deck stock?
 

·
Premium Member
The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
Joined
·
6,873 Posts
Hmm. I've been looking at the jbl club line and infinity reference. All around the same price range. But neither have all three sizes in stock. Also, they say that 6.5" fits in the deck and the doors, but the 6x9 is factory. One would assume then that the 6.5 would need an adapter to fit in the 6x9 spot.
6.5” will fit in door spots and it will need an adapter, but crutchfield should supply that adapter as part of the speaker purchase...for free, that is
 

·
Premium Member
The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
Joined
·
6,873 Posts
So for the rear deck, assuming I don't go mid bass - would I be better served spending $50 on a set vs $100, or just save my money and leave the deck stock?
I don’t think you will get your money’s worth out of a $100 set back there over a comparable $50 set, so I would do the $50 and put the extra $50 toward an amp or something
 

·
Registered
2020 SPS, M6, Go Mango
Joined
·
190 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
6.5” will fit in door spots and it will need an adapter, but crutchfield should supply that adapter as part of the speaker purchase...for free, that is
Hey thanks Crutchfield.

I might just get four 6.5" to satisfy my matching ocd.
 

·
Registered
2020 SPS, M6, Go Mango
Joined
·
190 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I don’t think you will get your money’s worth out of a $100 set back there over a comparable $50 set, so I would do the $50 and put the extra $50 toward an amp or something
👍
 

·
Premium Member
The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
Joined
·
6,873 Posts
Here’s how I look at that scenario: If the rear channels are set up correctly you shouldn’t really notice that they are there. So what good is getting a higher quality upgrade over the standard quality upgrade when you won’t be playing loud enough to notice the difference in quality?

Playing loud enough in relation to front channels. They may be loud at any given time, but the fronts should always be louder, thus the rears aren’t standing out as being back there, they are merely augmenting the fronts

I think you should go with the PAC adapter to upgrade rather than using a LOC like the LC6i. My twisted reasoning is explained in this poorly shot, poorly produced video:

Now, even as I hit upload on that video, I realized I didn’t fully explain that a LC6i would actually work for the 6 channels of sound from factory harness. It has 3 sets of inputs (3x2 is 6), so you could run all 6 into the LOC, and you could power all 6 coming out. But I still think the PAC would be simpler to integrate.

If looking for absolute best quality, or is you needed lots of options for exotic setups, the LC6i would be the better option, but you don’t, so it isn’t IMHO.
 

·
Registered
2020 SPS, M6, Go Mango
Joined
·
190 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I think you should go with the PAC adapter to upgrade rather than using a LOC like the LC6i. My twisted reasoning is explained in this poorly shot, poorly produced video:

Now, even as I hit upload on that video, I realized I didn’t fully explain that a LC6i would actually work for the 6 channels of sound from factory harness. It has 3 sets of inputs (3x2 is 6), so you could run all 6 into the LOC, and you could power all 6 coming out. But I still think the PAC would be simpler to integrate.

If looking for absolute best quality, or is you needed lots of options for exotic setups, the LC6i would be the better option, but you don’t, so it isn’t IMHO.
Another factor tho is price. The PAC is $120 more.
 

·
Premium Member
The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
Joined
·
6,873 Posts
Another factor tho is price. The PAC is $120 more.
Yeah, you will be paying a premium for the ease of integration it sounds like.

So it boils down to which do you dislike more - tedious wiring and more setup, or the higher cost of avoiding a lot of that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: A Guy

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,470 Posts
Just wanted to give my input on the upgrades. I recently upgraded my 2018 GT 6-speaker Alpine system.

The PAC AmpPro 4 is nice in a few different ways. It's much better than a simple Line Out Converter such as the LCi6. Probably the biggest advantage of the AmpPro 4 is that it actually gives you clean, flat, line-level outputs - just like you'd get with an aftermarket head-unit, for example. By simply using the speaker-level outputs from the OEM system (into a LOC like the LCi6), the signals would still have the OEM equalization curve, which is designed specifically for the crappy OEM speakers. Once you replace those speakers, then that OEM EQ curve will really limit how much advantage you an get out of your aftermarket speakers. Something like the LCi6 will also have to do summing, which is a much less "clean" way of getting a full-range signal from multiple band-limited signals (the dash speaker wires only carry mid/high freqs and the door speaker wires only carry midbass freqs) - so the LCi6 has to attempt to "sum" those signals in order to get a fullrange signal. The AmpPro 4 avoid all of this since it gives full-range, flat, line-level outputs.

Also, if you ever decide to add a DSP (highly recommended!), the AmpPro 4 also has the ability to send your signals to the DSP via an optical output (it's optional for the AmpPro 4, but inexpensive). The AmpPro 4 also allows you to customize the Bass/Mid/Treble frequencies and Q ("width") - and allows you to adjust the warning chime volume - as well as the "minimum volume level" (basically, how loud the radio is at volume level 1).

I'd highly recommend going the AmpPro 4 route if you want the best results. Also, a DSP is a MASSIVE upgrade when it comes to sound quality (gives you things like time alignment, individual speaker levels, up to 250 bands of EQ depending on the exact DSP, etc). Time alignment alone give a significant increase in sound quality (sound from every speaker arrives at your ears at the same time). You can get a DSP for as little as $150 (Dayton Audio DSP-408) - or you can spend over $1.5k for a DSP (Helix DSP Ultra, for example). I personally ended up going with a Helix DSP.3 which is somewhere in the middle (retails for $700 - I paid $535 shipped from another country) - and absolutely LOVE the results it provided. If you are really into sound quality, a DSP is an absolute must, IMO. But it requires some dedication in order to learn how to properly tune it.

Also, I personally would recommend a 6-channel amp - so that you have separate channels for each speaker. This is important for proper time-alignment and just allows you to "Fine tune" the system better.

The Kenwood KFC_XP6903C speaker set is a fantastic choice at that price level. It's designed to work either as a component set (with the included xover) or as individual speakers. There are two sets of speaker wire terminals on the midbass speaker depending on which way to want to use them. If you have a DSP or a 6-channel amp, I would run them in "bypass" mode - if you only have a 4-channel amp, you would run them in the passiver xover mode. Fantastic speakers for the price. The 6x9 midbass speaker size will generally give you much deeper midbass (same as an 8" speaker) - compared to 6.5" speaekrs. I originally tried the Infinity Reference speakers and then upgraded to the Kenwood set and I much preferred the Kenwood set. For the rear deck, I used the Kenwood Excelon KFC-X174, which were much better than the Infinity Reference 6.5" speakers. I've since upgraded to "higher end" speakers, but still have the KFC-X174's in the rear deck.

Hope that helps. Good luck! I do also have a full thread on here about my upgrade "journey" - may be helpful if you read through that as well since we have the same 6-channel Alpine setup.

Another option is the DSR-1, which is line an AmpPro and a DSP in one, for only about $250, but it has some issues. If you don't want to get a separate DSP (or a DSP-enabled amp), it may be a better option than the AmpPro 4 alone... Lots of options. Just be cautious with the DSR-1 - it's so cheap for a reason. :) Pros/Cons....
 
1 - 20 of 160 Posts
Top