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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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🤣😁. I guessing the small crack/leak got worse when they were trying to torque things down a bit more trying to fix what they thought was a rear seal leak. What was an annoying drip/spot on my garage floor turned into a steady pouring stream of oil when the engine was running. On the bright side - I hit the Service Manager up about the possibility of using this opportunity to swap the 5.7 out for a 392 (I’d pay the difference). He didn’t know if the warranty company would go for it but he is going to check on it.

Anyone have any opinion of Morel class A/B amps? Their specs look really good (signal to noise and THD). Not huge amps at 70 watts/channel but might be the clean power I’d like for the mids/highs. I’m still unsure of running a class D amp on the mids/highs. I know they’ve come a long way but years ago we thought of class D amps as being just cheap, dirty power “k-mart” amps.
I can’t speak to the Morel D amps, but I’ve run several JL Audio D (4 channel) amps, and they have been superb. D is the way to go nowadays!
 

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I can’t speak to the Morel D amps, but I’ve run several JL Audio D (4 channel) amps, and they have been superb. D is the way to go nowadays!
Yeah, it seems Class D is the standard now. I’m sure they are leaps and bounds better than they were when it was new technology.
 

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Yeah, class D is where it's at now. Even a lot of the hardcore audiophiles over on DIYMA have finally admitted that modern class D amps sound just as good as the older class A/B amps. There are really three main things that make class D amps nice - less heat generated, less power used and less space needed. Most class D amps don't need fans and can be installed in very tight spaces without worrying about them overheating - and they are also usually smaller than their class A/B counterparts.

As long as you go with a decent quality amp, I doubt that you could hear any difference between class D and class A/B. I'd go with whatever fits your needs in terms of size, price and power output. If you'd prefer class A/B and there i enough air circulation where you are installing it, then class A/B is fine as well. Just depends on your wants/needs - but in terms of sound quality, it really doesn't matter which one you use anymore - especially in a car environment (so much other "environmental" noise that you'd never hear any potential differences anyway). There are probably a dozen or more other factors that affect sound quality more than the class of the amp (quality of components, etc).

I've heard lots of good things about the lower-cost Pioneer class-D amps. I can get an exact model if interested. Many people really like it - I think it was a 4-channel amp.

I personally use JL Audio and while they are great amps, they do tend to be a little more expensive.
 

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All I know is you guys are gonna end up costing me a bunch of money because now I feel I need a separate channel for every speaker - lol. Oh well, it’s all fun.

Thinking a Kicker KX400.4 4 channel amp (50w x 4) on my 3 1/2’s and tweeters,

My Kicker KX400.2 (100w x 2) on the 6 1/2’s,

And the KX800.1 on the Subs.

Then I could DSP the front stuff at some point. That’s kinda my thoughts for now. I already have the KX400.2 and KX800.1 amps. I had planned on just running the KX400.2 on all of my front speakers using the passive crossover setup that comes with the component speakers - but I may end up using a 4 channel amp (KX400.4) as well. Maybe.
 

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Discussion Starter #125
999059



Got my sub amp in. Not super satisfied with how the wiring came out. But it's the best I can do for now. Ignore the sun speaker wire draped across I need something longer.

Not nearly the output I had in my other car. Same amp, box and subs. Yes it's a bigger car but something else is off.

I did have to turn the second dip switch down on the PAC to reduce the output voltage. Helped the noise in the system, can barely hear it now.

I'm hoping subpar power cables are not to blame. I have two brands of four gauge, streetwires and a cheap brand. The streetwires is noticeably thicker; but it's very stiff so I wasn't able to use it because of the tight corners. So I am hoping that the knock off 4 gauge isn't a choke point.

I need to work on setting the gain properly. Or more specifically, learn how. I just kind of go by ear. I know using the gain as a volume is no good. I also remember advice to use as little gain possible to still get adequate volume. I know there is a little more to it than that.
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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View attachment 999059


Got my sub amp in. Not super satisfied with how the wiring came out. But it's the best I can do for now. Ignore the sun speaker wire draped across I need something longer.

Not nearly the output I had in my other car. Same amp, box and subs. Yes it's a bigger car but something else is off.

I did have to turn the second dip switch down on the PAC to reduce the output voltage. Helped the noise in the system, can barely hear it now.

I'm hoping subpar power cables are not to blame. I have two brands of four gauge, streetwires and a cheap brand. The streetwires is noticeably thicker; but it's very stiff so I wasn't able to use it because of the tight corners. So I am hoping that the knock off 4 gauge isn't a choke point.

I need to work on setting the gain properly. Or more specifically, learn how. I just kind of go by ear. I know using the gain as a volume is no good. I also remember advice to use as little gain possible to still get adequate volume. I know there is a little more to it than that.
Quick sanity test for a sub with unexpectedly low performance:
  • if gain hasn’t been dialed in yet, set it at halfway for now
  • turn bass boost all the way down/off
  • set LPF to 80 Hz (unless crossing over in headunit; in that case set it to 80 Hz in h/u and band pass on sub amp)
  • remove speaker wires (going to the sub) from the amp’s output terminals.
  • insert the leads of a DMM into the speaker out terminals (and tighten them down if possible to secure them in place).
  • turn DMM on and set to measure AC volts (not DC!).
  • remove fuse for 4 channel amp so it cannot power up.
  • play a sub test tone (~50hz) at 3/4 max volume on the head/unit.
  • check DMM voltage readout.
If the AC volts measured in that scenario are in the single digits (3-8 volts), you’ve found the problem. Finding its cause is now key.

In similar situations prior to now, I’ve done this, see 2.5-3 volts at the sub amp output, and been able to resolve it by simply unplugging one of the two RCA signal wires running into the sub amp. Unplugging that one RCA has caused an immediate jump in the measured voltage before, up to 35, 40, and higher sometimes when some in the past.

I don’t know what it is about feeding a stereo signal to some sub amps, but they don’t like it or can’t properly sum it. So simply giving the amp a clean mono signal might restore the subs’ performance, just like that!

Anyway, just something to try...won’t cost anything and can’t hurt if you’re searching for an elusive culprit with no other suspects in sight...
 

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Discussion Starter #127
So not to over simplify, but wouldn't just unplugging an rca and seeing if output goes up do the same thing? Or am I missing something?



Also, I have some fuse wonkiness. My sub amp has 60 amp worth of on board fuses. My speaker amp recommends 50 amp. So combined 110 amp.



But my fuse at the battery that my main power flows through, I can only find a 50 amp in line fuse in my electrical box. I can't imagine this is how I had it in my other car I don't know if I lost the fuse. But frankly just in my test listening I don't know how I didn't blow the 50a main.
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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So not to over simplify, but wouldn't just unplugging an rca and seeing if output goes up do the same thing? Or am I missing something?



Also, I have some fuse wonkiness. My sub amp has 60 amp worth of on board fuses. My speaker amp recommends 50 amp. So combined 110 amp.



But my fuse at the battery that my main power flows through, I can only find a 50 amp in line fuse in my electrical box. I can't imagine this is how I had it in my other car I don't know if I lost the fuse. But frankly just in my test listening I don't know how I didn't blow the 50a main.
Yeah, you could unplug and see if there is a diff. But in the instance where you’re not sure if there is a diff, having the DMM voltage readings is a good way to know whether what you did made an actual diff. More volts coming out means more output at the speaker, and no change in volts or a reduction means less or worse perf from speaker. So it’s just a way to know whether what your ears hear can be trusted.
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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...
Also, I have some fuse wonkiness. My sub amp has 60 amp worth of on board fuses. My speaker amp recommends 50 amp. So combined 110 amp.
I doubt that sub amp will ever try to draw 60A unless you’re running it at 1 ohm and competing in SPL contests on the weekends. Get a clamp meter and check its power wire with a your favorite music album playing at maximum listenable volume. If the meter shows it pulling more than 30A at any point, I’ll eat my Sunday hat for dinner.

Same goes for the speaker amp. You could run a 25A fuse inline with its power wire and never have a problem I’m betting.

That 50A fuse in the main battery wire is enough to protect the amps’ for your usage scenario. Hell, I bet it is enough for mine too, and I’ve got a 3x45A sub amp plus a 60A four channel amp powering my system.


But my fuse at the battery that my main power flows through, I can only find a 50 amp in line fuse in my electrical box. I can't imagine this is how I had it in my other car I don't know if I lost the fuse. But frankly just in my test listening I don't know how I didn't blow the 50a main.
I’ve clamped just about every amp I’ve had in the last several years, and none show to be drawing nearly as many amps through the power wire as what they recommend or have on board to protect the internal circuitry.

Im not recommending that you run inline fuses that are too small to handle the maximum theoretical load of the protected amps, but I am saying you don’t necessarily need to to run inline fuses that are as large (or larger)
 

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Discussion Starter #131
Funny you say that. I remember advice from a long time ago about recognizing those junk amps for what they were. They would say look at the fuse rating for the amp that's "rated" for 10k watts that cost fifty bucks, the fuses are always tiny.

Then compare to like a Rockford that were supposed traditionally underrated and had high fuse ratings for their rated output.
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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Funny you say that. I remember advice from a long time ago about recognizing those junk amps for what they were. They would say look at the fuse rating for the amp that's "rated" for 10k watts that cost fifty bucks, the fuses are always tiny.

Then compare to like a Rockford that were supposed traditionally underrated and had high fuse ratings for their rated output.
Multiplying the onboard fuses’ total amps by 14 is a good way to verify an amp’s wattage claims. If the amp has a single 25A onboard fuse, but it claims to be able to provide 1000W, you know that’s horse hockey.

25A x 14v = 350w

The amp isn’t going to be pushing out 350w at all times though. Properly set up, it is able to provide 350w, but only if the scenario presents itself (think: ultra-low bass notes played at maximum volume).
 

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Car audio with no car...

I’ve done about all of the sub/trunk work I can do until I get my car back from the shop. Been fun messing with this stuff again after a 25+ year hiatus.
Once I’ve got the car back I can finish building/covering the “beauty panel” with trunk material that’ll surround the subs and vinyl trim ring I built.

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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Car audio with no car...

I’ve done about all of the sub/trunk work I can do until I get my car back from the shop. Been fun messing with this stuff again after a 25+ year hiatus.
Once I’ve got the car back I can finish building/covering the “beauty panel” with trunk material that’ll surround the subs and vinyl trim ring I built.

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That’s a good looking box.

FYI: Sealing each sub off so it’s in its own chamber inside the box is advisable for multi-sub boxes, but as long as the speakers are identical and being fed with one amp, you shouldn’t have a problem.
 

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That’s a good looking box.

FYI: Sealing each sub off so it’s in its own chamber inside the box is advisable for multi-sub boxes, but as long as the speakers are identical and being fed with one amp, you shouldn’t have a problem.
Thanks.
Interesting- 25 years ago we were all told (and advised customers) that if identical subs were being used and played mono that they should share airspace. “Acoustic coupling” - they then play as one speaker, etc.

However, I built dozens of boxes both ways and never noticed any difference either way.
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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Thanks.
Interesting- 25 years ago we were all told (and advised customers) that if identical subs were being used and played mono that they should share airspace. “Acoustic coupling” - they then play as one speaker, etc.

I built dozens of boxes both ways and never noticed any difference either way.
As I understand it separate chambers prevents one sub having a problem from affecting the other’s output. As long as everything is working right and the box is properly sealed, it probably won’t matter much at all if they are sealed or share the airspace.
 
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Being without the car has also proven expensive as the plan for the system has “grown” considerably while waiting and reading up on what’s being done these days. I just keep buying equipment and stacking it up in the corner of the bedroom. You guys are costing me a lot of money!!! 🤣 But I’m glad I read all of this before I actually got anything installed.

I’ll have a Kicker KXA800.1 on the subs - but my plan for the front has changed.

I had planned on a Kicker 2 channel amp (100w X 2) powering a pair of 2-way Focal components.
Instead, I wound up buying 3 way Focal components - so I’ll have the Kicker 2 channel amp on the 6 1/2’s and Kicker 4 channel amp (50w X 4) on the 3” midrange and the tweeters - so each speaker gets its own channel. I’m gonna have a Rockford Fosgate DSR1 as my DSP and run active crossovers on all of the speakers rather than the passives the Focals come with. The shop I’m working with is going to do the wiring/tuning - set the crossover points/eq levels/time alignment stuff, etc. I’d like to learn how to do all of that but for now - he’s got all of the software/equipment/expertise so I’ll let him set it up and maybe I’ll tweak it later.
I also bought some basic Kicker 5 1/4 co-axials for the rear and they will just be powered by the rear deck power. I’ll probably have them faded out to basically nothing unless I have some rear seat passengers - which rarely happens.
 

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As I understand it separate chambers prevents one sub having a problem from affecting the other’s output. As long as everything is working right and the box is properly sealed, it probably won’t matter much at all if they are sealed or share the airspace.
I can see that. If one were to quit the other would then suddenly be basically playing with “double” the airspace - it’d probably start bottoming out hard. I never thought about it from that aspect. Hopefully I’d have an ear for things if something seems amiss before I would wreck the remaining sub.
 

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Looks great, I love seeing do it yourself work of any kind ;)

A Guy
 
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