Dodge Challenger Forum banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
-----------------------------------------------------------------
1. back the car up onto the ramps
2. jack the left rear wheel up off the ramp
3. loosen the lugs and pull the wheel
4. disassemble the brakes
5. do whatever is being tried this time
6. reassemble the brakes
7. put wheel back on and torque the lug
8. take a test drive around the block
9. stop at stop signs and listen for squeal.
10. drive back to the house and start all over at number 1.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I have done that same set of steps 6 times now over the last week, and I don't mind saying I'm getting pretty sick and tired of it. Not to mention, I am officially out of ideas on what to try next. Advice, suggestions, words of encouragement are welcome.

Problem: light to medium pressure on the brakes causes a high pitched squeal to emanate from the left rear wheel. Heavy braking does not make any sounds, and the last 1/4 of the braking before a complete stop do not produce any noise. It is only at first braking (if not a heavy braking) through 2/3 or 3/4 of the total braking episode that the left rear brake squeals.

The noise started after I did a brake job on all 4 corners, replacing the pads and rotors with standard house brand hardware purchased from local auto parts store. No squeals before brake job, although there was some grinding from the warning tab on left rear (and right rear from warning tab; both fronts severely worn and grinding from needing to be replaced).

Solutions attempted thus far: different pads (started with semi-metallic, went to ceramic), new hardware (anti-rattle clips and caliper to bracket bolts/sleeves/dust caps), new caliper bracket bolts, CRC anti-squeal goop on back of pads, CRC hi-temp brake grease on all moving parts of calipers.

So far, the squeal persists. The fact that it's only on the one wheel is disconcerting, but I'll save the contents of that inner dialog for my court-ordered therapist.

I am pretty much resolved to just always keep my stereo cranked so I don't hear it. But just in case I'm missing something, I figured I'd make a post here and see if anyone has any ideas...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,272 Posts
Looks like you need some circular logic. Have you checked the hub and rotor runout? Could be when you mounted the rotor that you inadvertently mounted the rotor such that it is at max runout. :dunno:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,422 Posts
That you have replaced the pads yet the noise remains casts suspicion on the rotors, at least the rotor at the corner that squeals.



This then jumps out at me: "...standard house brand hardware purchased from local auto parts store".


There have been reports of problems with "standard house brand hardware purchased from local auto parts store" regarding water pumps, T-stats, and other things. Brake hardware would not be immune.



I have done a "ton" of brakes, on various cars, including one Dodge D200 pickup, and never had any brake squeal afterwards. However, I never bought "standard house brand hardware" from the local auto parts store. I'd buy the brake hardware from the dealer parts department, or when I used a nearby autoparts store the owner would get the hardware from a local dealer.



After the brakes were done, occasionally a very mild brake squeal will make itself known over time which based on my experience is related to brake dust build up on the caliper piston boots and which I have found can be addressed by washing the brakes. This eliminates the squeal for months and months.



I do not think this is what is going on with your car's brakes though.


If I move to the 2nd thing on my suspect list, when you removed the old brake hardware, was there any evidence of a dragging pad due to a piston not pulling back a bit?


I'm thinking if not the rotor a caliper has a problem with at least one piston.


When was the last time you flushed and bled the brake fluid?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
911 Posts
I feel your pain brother. Have you bedded the pads in? I've experimented with 6 different types of pads and most either squealed like a banshee or under performed. I was looking for a good combination of track and street, with low dust, but no magic bullet out there for me. Not my favorite but the PowerStop Z26 pads were consistantly quiet and low dust although not nearly the bite and dependable performance at highway speeds as the OE Brembo pads. I've gone to a full ceramic pad for street and swap out to the OE Brembo pads on track days.

Here's one pad I tried that drove me nuts. EBC wouldn't refund my money but luckily I purchased them from CarID and they eventually did...

https://youtu.be/BbaW1XS8BgQ
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Looks like you need some circular logic. Have you checked the hub and rotor runout? Could be when you mounted the rotor that you inadvertently mounted the rotor such that it is at max runout. :dunno:
I have not checked the runout for being out of spec...mostly because I don't have one of those hootuses you use to measure that sort of thing, but also because I was under the impression that if there were excessive runout, it would manifest itself as brake judder under hard braking conditions.

That you have replaced the pads yet the noise remains casts suspicion on the rotors, at least the rotor at the corner that squeals.



This then jumps out at me: "...standard house brand hardware purchased from local auto parts store".


There have been reports of problems with "standard house brand hardware purchased from local auto parts store" regarding water pumps, T-stats, and other things. Brake hardware would not be immune.



I have done a "ton" of brakes, on various cars, including one Dodge D200 pickup, and never had any brake squeal afterwards. However, I never bought "standard house brand hardware" from the local auto parts store. I'd buy the brake hardware from the dealer parts department, or when I used a nearby autoparts store the owner would get the hardware from a local dealer.



After the brakes were done, occasionally a very mild brake squeal will make itself known over time which based on my experience is related to brake dust build up on the caliper piston boots and which I have found can be addressed by washing the brakes. This eliminates the squeal for months and months.



I do not think this is what is going on with your car's brakes though.


If I move to the 2nd thing on my suspect list, when you removed the old brake hardware, was there any evidence of a dragging pad due to a piston not pulling back a bit?


I'm thinking if not the rotor a caliper has a problem with at least one piston.


When was the last time you flushed and bled the brake fluid?

Brake fluid is new-ish. I bled them and replaced all the fluid back when I got the car last year (~30K miles ago), and I have recently done a drain and fill on the master cylinder with the intention of doing another 4 wheel bleeding to freshen up the rest of it, but I have not done the bleeding yet.

The rear pads on the squealing side were unevenly worn, with the inside one making it all the way down to the metal backing plate about the same time as the outside one hit the warning clip. That was actually the impetus for me to do the brake job.

I have considered there could be a problem with the piston in that caliper, but I haven't done much with that suspicion since I didn't think a reticent piston in the caliper could cause the squealing noise I'm hearing. But if it can, I suppose it could be time to put that puppy on the hit list...


I feel your pain brother. Have you bedded the pads in? I've experimented with 6 different types of pads and most either squealed like a banshee or under performed. I was looking for a good combination of track and street, with low dust, but no magic bullet out there for me. Not my favorite but the PowerStop Z26 pads were consistantly quiet and low dust although not nearly the bite and dependable performance at highway speeds as the OE Brembo pads. I've gone to a full ceramic pad for street and swap out to the OE Brembo pads on track days.

Here's one pad I tried that drove me nuts. EBC wouldn't refund my money but luckily I purchased them from CarID and they eventually did...

https://youtu.be/BbaW1XS8BgQ
I attempted a bedding in process on the initial set of pads, although it was cut a little short by the local fuzz. That was mostly my fault for deciding to perform the process as soon as I got done with the brake job...which was about 12:30 am on a Wednesday night. I can't say as I blame them for pulling me over. I would be suspicious too if I saw a car accelerating up to 55 and then slamming on the brakes over and over late at night...and driving the Pursuit Charger only drew that much more attention to my erratic actions I'm sure...anyway, I did attempt to bed the first set of pads, but I did not get to do the same with the newest set (ceramic). I have thought maybe I should, but at this point, I'm not sure it would help much.

I watched that video, and I know the squeal that those pads were making, I've encountered it before on a different vehicle (I forget what was done to address it on that car), but the sound mine is making is different. It sounds like yours was squealing no matter how much pressure was applied and all the way to a stop, whereas mine will only do it with med-light pressure and stop before I come to a complete stand-still. It's kinda hard to describe, maybe I'll just have to record my own video! :grin2:



Something that did just occur to me to try would be to swap the rotors on the rear and see if the squeal follows that rotor. If it does not, and everything else is kept the same, that should tell me something about what the problem is...or is not...or whatever...is it too early to start drinking yet?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,272 Posts
I have not checked the runout for being out of spec...mostly because I don't have one of those hootuses you use to measure that sort of thing, but also because I was under the impression that if there were excessive runout, it would manifest itself as brake judder under hard braking conditions.
Yes over time it would develop into pulsation but if you hear squeaking, more of a chirp...chirp...chirp, with light braking it could be a sign of runout. Have you tried swapping the rear rotors?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Yes over time it would develop into pulsation but if you hear squeaking, more of a chirp...chirp...chirp, with light braking it could be a sign of runout. Have you tried swapping the rear rotors?
Damn @ChallyTatum, tap the brakes a scosche, I haven't even decided the order in which I will be consuming my hydration for the day.

The Bacon Hauler is indeed up on the ramps already, but I can't start turning wrenches until I have made a very important decision for the task ahead - which beers to drink, how many of each, and in what order.

Here are the entrants:
IMAG0281.jpg

And here's what I've decided upon for the order and quantities in which to consume them:
1. 2 x Rahr & Sons' Adios Pantelones
2. 1 x Sierra Nevada's Otra Vez
3. 2 x Shiner's Sea Salt & Lime
4. 1 x Karbach's Blood Orange Radler
5. 1 x 3 Nations' Royal Blood*
6. 1 x Revolver's Blood & Honey*

* - may not make it this far, but just in case...

I think that combination, in those amounts, and in that specific order will combine to give me the optimum scenario for the best chance of success with my brakes.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
It's a good thing I am drinking, otherwise the thought of a couple of Harbor Freight wheel chocks being the only thing keeping my car from rolling into the middle of traffic might scare the hell out of me:

IMAG0282.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,272 Posts
It's a good thing I am drinking, otherwise the thought of a couple of Harbor Freight wheel chocks being the only thing keeping my car from rolling into the middle of traffic might scare the hell out of me:

View attachment 944019
Not sure if you just snapped a pic in the middle of the process...but please throw some jack stands under there. Last thing I want to do is start referring to you in the past tense. :frown:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,783 Posts
I remember with my 2010 R/T, I had a nasty brake squeal after installing new pads and rotors. I tracked it down to the right front outer brake pad. The pads I got (EBC yellow) weren't exactly perfect in their fitment. This one pad in particular was a bit short in length (where the end tabs slid into the caliper bracket). This allowed the pad some wiggle room, thus causing the squeal if it was allowed to get crooked and apply force unevenly under light braking. The fitment was actually bad enough that sometimes I could hear it clank over bumps. It also threw off a ton of brake dust. Some is normal, but this was excessive. It looked like particulate soot emissions from a diesel.

I got rid of them and went with Mopar replacement pads. Perfect fit and quiet after that.

Brake squeal noises are usually caused by microscopic vibrations in the friction surface, making a high pitch frequency. Some minor noise is perfectly normal, but any movement or deflection in braking components, or anything that causes uneven pressure distribution across the pad can make it much worse. Anyway, check for proper pad fitment. You probably would have noticed, but thought I'd throw that suggestion your way.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Not sure if you just snapped a pic in the middle of the process...but please throw some jack stands under there. Last thing I want to do is start referring to you in the past tense. :frown:
jack stands.jpg

there you go...although I fail to see how that is going to make all this any safer...but no matter, what @ChallyTatum requests, @ChallyTatum receives!!


(don't worry, there is no point at which I will actually crawl under the car to put myself in danger...except for when I go to retrieve those jack stands...oh the irony if the worst case scenario were come to pass...)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I remember with my 2010 R/T, I had a nasty brake squeal after installing new pads and rotors. I tracked it down to the right front outer brake pad. The pads I got (EBC yellow) weren't exactly perfect in their fitment. This one pad in particular was a bit short in length (where the end tabs slid into the caliper bracket). This allowed the pad some wiggle room, thus causing the squeal if it was allowed to get crooked and apply force unevenly under light braking. The fitment was actually bad enough that sometimes I could hear it clank over bumps. It also threw off a ton of brake dust. Some is normal, but this was excessive. It looked like particulate soot emissions from a diesel.

I got rid of them and went with Mopar replacement pads. Perfect fit and quiet after that.

Brake squeal noises are usually caused by microscopic vibrations in the friction surface, making a high pitch frequency. Some minor noise is perfectly normal, but any movement or deflection in braking components, or anything that causes uneven pressure distribution across the pad can make it much worse. Anyway, check for proper pad fitment. You probably would have noticed, but thought I'd throw that suggestion your way.
No, the saga of what I went through to arrive at the pads that are on it is something else, and very realistically be related to what you're talking about. I will make sure to check them for any wiggle room upon reassembly just to see if I can spot any irregularities though. Thanks!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Here's a question for everyone and no one in particular:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,272 Posts
View attachment 944027

there you go...although I fail to see how that is going to make all this any safer...but no matter, what @ChallyTatum requests, @ChallyTatum receives!!


(don't worry, there is no point at which I will actually crawl under the car to put myself in danger...except for when I go to retrieve those jack stands...oh the irony if the worst case scenario were come to pass...)
I see you already got into the Karbach's Blood Orange Radler. :lol: At least the bacon hauler won't land on the brand new rotors. :wiggle:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,272 Posts
Damn @ChallyTatum, tap the brakes a scosche, I haven't even decided the order in which I will be consuming my hydration for the day.

The Bacon Hauler is indeed up on the ramps already, but I can't start turning wrenches until I have made a very important decision for the task ahead - which beers to drink, how many of each, and in what order.

Here are the entrants:
View attachment 944015

And here's what I've decided upon for the order and quantities in which to consume them:
1. 2 x Rahr & Sons' Adios Pantelones
2. 1 x Sierra Nevada's Otra Vez
3. 2 x Shiner's Sea Salt & Lime
4. 1 x Karbach's Blood Orange Radler
5. 1 x 3 Nations' Royal Blood*
6. 1 x Revolver's Blood & Honey*

* - may not make it this far, but just in case...

I think that combination, in those amounts, and in that specific order will combine to give me the optimum scenario for the best chance of success with my brakes.
Just remember to stop when you start talking like this:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Just remember to stop when you start talking like this:
Wow, that is something to behold there...I don't know what surprises me more, that they let him go on and do his whole routine despite being drunker'n a skunk, or that he was able to get through it all despite having the hiccups. Although I swear a couple of those "hic"s were actually some alcohol-laden bile being returned back up the esophagus, which then had to be re-swallowed...BLECK!!


I would say I won't get like that today, but there is disturbing evidence I may already be there - I swear that video I uploaded to YouTube and linked to above had sound in it. I was actually posing a question to the viewer. But I'll be damned if it appears to be devoid of sound now. :dunno:

I guess I'll switch to water now...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Swapped the rear rotors from side to side, and took great care to clean and properly align hardware during reassembly, and added anti-squeal goop on back of non-piston pads. All bolts torqued to proper lb/ft spec, and brake cleaner used while broken down to make sure everything goes back together clean.

results: No change in behavior - the left rear brake still squeals at braking onset until right before complete stop when applying light to medium pressure. :frown:


I uploaded the dash cam video recorded while doing the test drive, but for some reason I cannot hear the squeal in the version YouTube plays (it's clearly there in the raw footage), but just in case its me, here that is:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I'm thinking that it has to be caliper-related at this point. I think you've ruled everything else out...
I'm starting to think you are right...so what time can you swing by to pick up the troubleshooting where I left off?? :grin2:


No seriously, I'm past burned out on this whole brake thing, I could snap and go vegan or something crazy if I have to pull those wheels and disassemble the brakes one_more_time...

I've got beeeer! Cold, tasty, cold, yummy beeeeer!!!

7pm work for you? :laugh2:
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top