Sorry to hear about the engine! It might have been from bad gas,too much timing,loss of fuel pressure etc.This is where gauges and data logging at the track, come in handy!I doubt he is running enough horsepower to run the rails dry.A fuel pressure gauge could tell you if the BAP was working.You would have to have a good amount of spark knock to bust a piston.Something you need to check every once in awhile.
Posting for LUV MY RT....hurt motor last Saturday
LUV MY RT asked me to post this for him since I'm on the forum a lot more than he is.
LUV MY RT from the forum and I are good friends. He's local and we go to the track together. Those of you at ChallengerFest last year will remember him and his wife having the black R/T with the Vortech supercharger.
Last Saturday we went to Beech Bend to run a few passes.
We both slapped on our M&H DRs and he's first to go down the track. He ran a personal best of 12.42 at 110.64. He's got the Vortech setup on his 09' Challenger R/T Auto and was running stock Vortech boost which I believe is 6.5psi and he's running the the Boost A Pump. The temps at the track were in the high 60s and he was running high octane Sunoco fuel. The car was custom tuned, but I'll let him go in to that if he wants.
I didn't see him pull back around after his run so I go to our pit area to check on him. He's sitting in the car with it idling and tells me it feels like it has a miss. I listen to the exhaust and it sounds OK, but the engine was jumping around like he had a big lopey cam in it. NO check engine lights though. Weird.
I figure he's spun the crank pulley and gotten something off balance. We give GSO a call for a 2nd opinion and he asks a few questions and says it might be a broken motor mount since there were no CELs.
The car gets him 120 miles home....still no CEL, but its running pretty rough by the time he gets in the driveway. No smoke or anything outta the exhaust.
He pulls all the plugs and finds one of the plugs in cyl 7 has a bent electrode. The plugs in cyl 1 are fouled. The rest of the plugs look good.
He does a compression check and starts with cyl 7 since it had the bent electrode plug. It reads fine. He calls me and we think he's dodged a bullet. He goes ahead and checks the compression on the rest of the cylinders just to be sure and finds the compression in cyl 1 is way way low.
Crap! He does a wet compression check to see if it's a piston or a valve....turns out it's a piston as when he added a bit of oil to the cylinder the compression came right up.
He's looking at options now and will be coming up with a plan to get back up and running. We're hoping he can still make ChallengerFest2 but things aren't looking good at this point.
I'm sure Greg will post in to this thread when he has time to get on the computer, but he wanted me to give you guys a heads up.
LUV MY RT from the forum and I are good friends. He's local and we go to the track together. Those of you at ChallengerFest last year will remember him and his wife having the black R/T with the Vortech supercharger.
Last Saturday we went to Beech Bend to run a few passes.
We both slapped on our M&H DRs and he's first to go down the track. He ran a personal best of 12.42 at 110.64. He's got the Vortech setup on his 09' Challenger R/T Auto and was running stock Vortech boost which I believe is 6.5psi and he's running the the Boost A Pump. The temps at the track were in the high 60s and he was running high octane Sunoco fuel. The car was custom tuned, but I'll let him go in to that if he wants.
I didn't see him pull back around after his run so I go to our pit area to check on him. He's sitting in the car with it idling and tells me it feels like it has a miss. I listen to the exhaust and it sounds OK, but the engine was jumping around like he had a big lopey cam in it. NO check engine lights though. Weird.
I figure he's spun the crank pulley and gotten something off balance. We give GSO a call for a 2nd opinion and he asks a few questions and says it might be a broken motor mount since there were no CELs.
The car gets him 120 miles home....still no CEL, but its running pretty rough by the time he gets in the driveway. No smoke or anything outta the exhaust.
He pulls all the plugs and finds one of the plugs in cyl 7 has a bent electrode. The plugs in cyl 1 are fouled. The rest of the plugs look good.
He does a compression check and starts with cyl 7 since it had the bent electrode plug. It reads fine. He calls me and we think he's dodged a bullet. He goes ahead and checks the compression on the rest of the cylinders just to be sure and finds the compression in cyl 1 is way way low.
Crap! He does a wet compression check to see if it's a piston or a valve....turns out it's a piston as when he added a bit of oil to the cylinder the compression came right up.
He's looking at options now and will be coming up with a plan to get back up and running. We're hoping he can still make ChallengerFest2 but things aren't looking good at this point.
I'm sure Greg will post in to this thread when he has time to get on the computer, but he wanted me to give you guys a heads up.
1 - 20 of 131 Posts
I "think" the Vortech runs the stock fuel rails. I wonder if upgrading those with crossovers is advisable here. The stock rails just have the one cross over in the middle if memory serves.
He was dyno'd at 470RWHP.
He was dyno'd at 470RWHP.
Well if the motor is going to get pulled,he might as well put better rails on.I would be more concerned with the tune.The check engine light should of come on, during his drive home.Maybe one of the tuners can chime in,knock sensors and missfire monitor could have been desensitized.With a scan tool the missfire monitor counter can be checked for individual cyl missfire.I "think" the Vortech runs the stock fuel rails. I wonder if upgrading those with crossovers is advisable here. The stock rails just have the one cross over in the middle if memory serves.
He was dyno'd at 470RWHP.
Thanks Speedy for posting this up for me. I have been very busy & have not had time to post. The tune & setup on my SC was suppose to be very conservative because of the stock motor. I have seen guys on here running 8 plus psi of boost on stock motor with no problem so I figured I was ok at 6psi. The Vortech was installed & tuned by a vendor on the forum. I called them Tuesday & told them what had happened & to see if they could help me figure out what went wrong. They took some notes & was going to call me back that same day. As of today I have not had a return phone call. I spent a good bit of money with them for the SC install & tune. I will be taking my car somewhere else for the rebuild.
I know it was unexpected Greg, but we'll get her back right. Bigger, faster stronger. I'll be in touch tomorrow.
Yep, he'll definitely be doing that as well as a few other upgradesWell if the motor is going to get pulled,he might as well put better rails on.I would be more concerned with the tune.The check engine light should of come on, during his drive home.Maybe one of the tuners can chime in,knock sensors and missfire monitor could have been desensitized.With a scan tool the missfire monitor counter can be checked for individual cyl missfire.
Not getting a CEL is really throwing me for a loop.
I thank this next setup will be just what the Dr ordered. Thanks again Speedy for posting this up for me. I sent the other guy we talked about a PM so he knows.I know it was unexpected Greg, but we'll get her back right. Bigger, faster stronger. I'll be in touch tomorrow.
Sorry to hear it, I am going to say 99% in favor of a tune issue...short of the BAP going bad or some other freak fuel issue, there is really no reason to pop a pisiton at that boost level except a tuning issue.
Not getting a CEL on a spark plug that had the tip bent all the way into the electrode is hard for me to understand.Yep, he'll definitely be doing that as well as a few other upgrades
Not getting a CEL is really throwing me for a loop.
You never got any codes any time you checked even now?
No code was ever thrown I even pluged in the predator to check it still no codes shown.You never got any codes any time you checked even now?
No cel because the other plug in that cylinder was still firing. Cylinder 1 let go and a piece of piston went through the intake to cylinder 7 and hit one plug but left the other alone. If both plugs would have been hit to you have had a misfire code.
Sucks to hear about your problem, hope you can get everything squared away before CF2! Would like to see what you do to her
Low compression will set a missfire code.I see it all the time,spark and fuel are good,but compression is low in the missfiring cylinder.The computer looks at the crank sensor for a slow firing cylinder.The crank rotation speed will be slower on a weak cylinder.A scan tool will tell you if the missfire monitor is on and working.
Thanks Speedy for posting this up for me. I have been very busy & have not had time to post. The tune & setup on my SC was suppose to be very conservative because of the stock motor. I have seen guys on here running 8 plus psi of boost on stock motor with no problem so I figured I was ok at 6psi. The Vortech was installed & tuned by a vendor on the forum. I called them Tuesday & told them what had happened & to see if they could help me figure out what went wrong. They took some notes & was going to call me back that same day. As of today I have not had a return phone call. I spent a good bit of money with them for the SC install & tune. I will be taking my car somewhere else for the rebuild.
That's the second vortech custom tuned motor that had issues with a vendor on this forum. I'm yet to hear a problem with one with the kit tune. Was the kit tune to rich or not enough hp.
Sorry for engine problems. Isn't it funny how helpful they are before they have your money.
Pull the head. 7 is hurt as well. A compression test will not detect a broken land nor will a leakdown unless the ring itself has broken. You have to visually inspect either with a good scope that can see the piston all the way around the edge to the cyl wall or pull the head.
It sucks to see stories like this. I hate to hear of any car having a problem, especially when it is one my customers. While many people will not have an issue when modifying, things can and do go wrong when trying to make far more power than it was originnaly intended to make stock. This is the 1st RT we have touched that has had a major issue.
There are many reasons cylinders can have issues.
· Boost a pump or fuel pumps can fail = no added fuel flow when needed
· Hobbs switch can fail or fuel system wiring can fail = no BAP = no added fuel
· Fuel lines and rails are too small to support fuel flow needed
· Injector fails
· Tune can be off
· Voltage drops: Cars computer will not work properly, which changes everything. –If you ever have low voltage, do not drive it hard.
· Bad gas – has lower octane and will toast pistons
· High intake air temps – hot air from the blower is bad for stock hemi pistons as their ringlands are very weak. High temps can be caused by low coolant in the intercooler, or an intercooler pump failing.
· Too much boost
Those are just a few things that can cause cylinder issues. I have called Greg to figure out a time to get the car here to diagnose the root cause of his issues.
If you are currently in the market for forced induction, its good to know that things "can happen" but that it is rare and I would not be scared to have a forced induction hemi as my daily driver. The vast majority of supercharged hemis out today are driving fine without issue.
Thanks guys,
Tim C
There are many reasons cylinders can have issues.
· Boost a pump or fuel pumps can fail = no added fuel flow when needed
· Hobbs switch can fail or fuel system wiring can fail = no BAP = no added fuel
· Fuel lines and rails are too small to support fuel flow needed
· Injector fails
· Tune can be off
· Voltage drops: Cars computer will not work properly, which changes everything. –If you ever have low voltage, do not drive it hard.
· Bad gas – has lower octane and will toast pistons
· High intake air temps – hot air from the blower is bad for stock hemi pistons as their ringlands are very weak. High temps can be caused by low coolant in the intercooler, or an intercooler pump failing.
· Too much boost
Those are just a few things that can cause cylinder issues. I have called Greg to figure out a time to get the car here to diagnose the root cause of his issues.
If you are currently in the market for forced induction, its good to know that things "can happen" but that it is rare and I would not be scared to have a forced induction hemi as my daily driver. The vast majority of supercharged hemis out today are driving fine without issue.
Thanks guys,
Tim C
That's disappointing that you had an issue with your engine at that level of boost, Greg. I'd be surprised if it wasn't tune related. Hopefully your vendor steps up on this one.
This wouldn't be the first Vortech blown HEMI at relatively low boost to go due to a tune.
HemiSam
This wouldn't be the first Vortech blown HEMI at relatively low boost to go due to a tune.
HemiSam
1 - 20 of 131 Posts
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