[Speedy!]

LUV MY RT asked me to post this for him since I'm on the forum a lot more than he is.

LUV MY RT from the forum and I are good friends. He's local and we go to the track together. Those of you at ChallengerFest last year will remember him and his wife having the black R/T with the Vortech supercharger.

Last Saturday we went to Beech Bend to run a few passes.

We both slapped on our M&H DRs and he's first to go down the track. He ran a personal best of 12.42 at 110.64. He's got the Vortech setup on his 09' Challenger R/T Auto and was running stock Vortech boost which I believe is 6.5psi and he's running the the Boost A Pump. The temps at the track were in the high 60s and he was running high octane Sunoco fuel. The car was custom tuned, but I'll let him go in to that if he wants.

I didn't see him pull back around after his run so I go to our pit area to check on him. He's sitting in the car with it idling and tells me it feels like it has a miss. I listen to the exhaust and it sounds OK, but the engine was jumping around like he had a big lopey cam in it. NO check engine lights though. Weird.

I figure he's spun the crank pulley and gotten something off balance. We give GSO a call for a 2nd opinion and he asks a few questions and says it might be a broken motor mount since there were no CELs.

The car gets him 120 miles home....still no CEL, but its running pretty rough by the time he gets in the driveway. No smoke or anything outta the exhaust.

He pulls all the plugs and finds one of the plugs in cyl 7 has a bent electrode. The plugs in cyl 1 are fouled. The rest of the plugs look good.

He does a compression check and starts with cyl 7 since it had the bent electrode plug. It reads fine. He calls me and we think he's dodged a bullet. He goes ahead and checks the compression on the rest of the cylinders just to be sure and finds the compression in cyl 1 is way way low.

Crap! He does a wet compression check to see if it's a piston or a valve....turns out it's a piston as when he added a bit of oil to the cylinder the compression came right up.

He's looking at options now and will be coming up with a plan to get back up and running. We're hoping he can still make ChallengerFest2 but things aren't looking good at this point.

I'm sure Greg will post in to this thread when he has time to get on the computer, but he wanted me to give you guys a heads up.

 

[Speedy!]

I "think" the Vortech runs the stock fuel rails. I wonder if upgrading those with crossovers is advisable here. The stock rails just have the one cross over in the middle if memory serves.

He was dyno'd at 470RWHP.

 

[Speedy!]

I know it was unexpected Greg, but we'll get her back right. Bigger, faster stronger. I'll be in touch tomorrow.

 

[Speedy!]

Well if the motor is going to get pulled,he might as well put better rails on.I would be more concerned with the tune.The check engine light should of come on, during his drive home.Maybe one of the tuners can chime in,knock sensors and missfire monitor could have been desensitized.With a scan tool the missfire monitor counter can be checked for individual cyl missfire.

Yep, he'll definitely be doing that as well as a few other upgrades

Not getting a CEL is really throwing me for a loop.

 

[Speedy!]

im thinking tune also.. 6psi and 470 hp is high numbers.. speedy did you run any logs.. check iat's? air fuel?

Never got a chance to check it

 

[Speedy!]

^^^Custom tunes are almost always better than a one size fits all kit tune since they are specific to the car being "tuned".

 

[Speedy!]

Very true if the tuner knows what they are doing, but more times than not, it seems that custom tunes run closer to the edge...which is fine so long as the customer knows that and is shooting for the max, and knows the possible ramifications.

That said, I have yet to see or hear of a failure of anyone running a canned Vortech tune in 3+ years...yes not max power, never will be, but also not popping motors. Every failure I have heard of has been with a custom tune.

Seems there are only a handful of tuners in this country that truly understand how to tune and FI Hemi, that becomes more clear by the day.

Yeah, seems that's the case for sure.

 

[Speedy!]

I was careful with the wording of the initial post to avoid it seeming like anyone was being hung out to dry. This thread is just for information sharing and discussion of a failed stock R/T motor with a supercharger. It should not be construed any other way.

Greg has been in contact with Tim about the issue, but is researching how best to proceed with his car.

Now for the facts:

1. Greg has not messed with the tune or fuel system.
2. Yes he did have some issues with the BAP wiring as it had been installed.

There were two issues with the BAP:

A) One of the ring terminals on a ground connection had a bad crimp. He replaced that ring terminal. The car would not start with this condition.

B) A few weeks later the car again would not start. Greg checked wiring and found a blown fuse in one of the BAP connections. Greg replaced the fuse and it would immediately blow again. The BAP would also get warm to the touch. The issue was resolved with larger gauge wire to the BAP, which was based on forum member recommendations from folks who had experience with the BAP.

12 gauge wire is what I seem to remember it having installed and I believe Greg replaced it with 10 gauge or maybe 8 gauge, but he'll have to confirm the sizes as I don't remember exactly.

To my knowledge that's the extent of what he changed. Each time the BAP had problems the car would not start at all.

Greg did have on his short list to get rid of that thing. You guys know I hate BAPs and this is a prime example of why.

Since cyl 1 was the failure point, it's making me wonder if the stock fuel rails aren't up to the task with a blower even at lower boost levels. I know even with the basic Magnuson kit you get larger fuel rails with front and rear crossovers.

The stock fuel rails just have the one cross over in the middle.

When the engine is torn down either Greg or I will post up what actually failed. As of right now we're pretty sure it's a piston based on compression testing, but obviously won't know 100% until the motor is taken apart.

Also, yes I do think any forced induction car should have gauges installed. Boost and AFR gauges at a minimum. Greg had these on the to do list as well, but like several folks on the forum with superchargers, hadn't installed them yet.

 

[Speedy!]

ok, whats a BAP?

BAP = Boost A Pump.

It's an electrical device that interfaces with the fuel pumps. It increases fuel pump voltage driving the pump faster so that more fuel is provided to the injectors.

A larger pump or dual pumps is much better solution IMO.

 

[Speedy!]

I got your point Mikey. You guy's haven't seen the fuel rails be an issue with other stock boost setups. Got it.

 

[Speedy!]

I think Greg has a solid plan. I need to give him a call later today to see what he's deciding on.

One thing to consider is that his wife drives this car to work just about everyday and will only see the track a few times a year. I think his goals are in the 500 - 525RWHP range. Should be easily achieved.

 

[Speedy!]

Correct, Arrington can build whatever you want. I asked for 500RWHP street car and 100K mile reliability, they gave me 550RWHP. I've had it a year and had two small problems (needed a stronger idler pulley bracket due to the 12lbs of boost and the fuel hat rubber line failed). Arrington MORE than met my after sale support expectations taking care of both issues PROMPTLY.

That's why I have no problem recommending them to anybody.

Curious about who's running 11.8/118 with 480HP in a 6 speed car though? That's getting a bit off topic, so please PM it to me so we can keep Greg's thread on track.

 

[Speedy!]

http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f100/11-83-video-53298/
11.83/117.8

I asked you to PM it to me to keep this thread on track.

That's Dan. He's more than 480HP and has extensive experience with stick cars. I wouldn't expect you to know that having not been around long, so no big deal. I've seen a data log from his car.

Now please keep this thread on track. Start a new one if you wanna talk about how fast a car should be.

I'll be back later, gotta jump on a plane to fly out to the TX mile with Sam. He ran 173.4MPH last time, can't wait to see what he does this time.

 

[Speedy!]

Made it through security at the air port unscathed....what a freakin' hassle.

This is not about DCX or Arrington. It's about a failed R/T motor and next steps. Quit trying to derail the thread.

Gonna call Greg when I get to TX to see what he's thinking about doing.

 

[Speedy!]

This car is now in the loving hands of Arrington Engines (ShopHemi.com). Should get interesting now.

 

[Speedy!]

Hopefully Greg will come in and update, but I know he's working like 65 hours a week so his time on the forums is limited.

I'll try to give him a call later today to catch up and get some updates.

Arrington will let him know what failed and do some analysis I think on the motor to see what happened.

 

[Speedy!]

Soot on the exhaust tips is normal with a blower. I have it both on my Challenger as well as my 4Runner with a supercharger. It doesn't mean it's rich, it's just the way the combustion works.

On the BAP...here's a big issue for me....say that vacuum/boost line gets pinched or something. The BAP no longer sees when the car's in boost and no longer adds the necessary fuel when in boost....snap crackle pop. Think about it....your whole motor is relying on that $2 vac line. No way jose'.

 

[Speedy!]

I guess I better do some datalogging then.

So, bigger fuel pump with regulator and return better?

Does anyone have a suggestion for keeping the fuel pressure up? (Some setups you SC guys run?)

You can do a dual pump FORE fuel hat. It's a billet aluminum fuel hat, that carries two pumps. Connects up to the stock fuel line just like stock.

It actually made my fuel pressure go up about 6psi at the rails.

You can get it from shopHEMI.com

I recommend opting for the upgraded wire harness as well. It's "almost" plug and play and will handle the juice the two pumps require no problem.

 

[Speedy!]

http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f176/vortech-kit-close-call-57054/

 

[Speedy!]

Nothing is perfect.....should I post up all the Supercharger threads with people running a BAP and no issues :fight:

Just messing with you man

Anything can fail, so one out many is not a end all discussion

Well, Luv My RT's had problems on three occasions as well, so that's two...and I think there's another just on this forum alone that's had problems.

You're right it's not end all be all on the discussion, but 3 cars out of how many on this forum with problems on these things is a pretty high percentage.

No big deal to me as mine's solid with the dual pump setup from FORE, but folks getting in to this need to know the pit falls.

If it were not so critical to the motor's life it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but if this thing messes up one time in boost you'll need a motor.