[SRT8U]

While true that a wiring issue/ bap issue could cause an issue, although most of the time if there is a short or a blown fuse the car won't run at all as no power will be going to the fuel pump assuming it was wired in correctly. if I am reading this right, does this mean a bap was not run on this car from day one, or is it just that there were wiring issues with it.

As Tim said it is hard to know what really happened unless there was data loggingdone at the time, or you can at least see what the pieces look like later.

 

[Speedy!]

I was careful with the wording of the initial post to avoid it seeming like anyone was being hung out to dry. This thread is just for information sharing and discussion of a failed stock R/T motor with a supercharger. It should not be construed any other way.

Greg has been in contact with Tim about the issue, but is researching how best to proceed with his car.

Now for the facts:

1. Greg has not messed with the tune or fuel system.
2. Yes he did have some issues with the BAP wiring as it had been installed.

There were two issues with the BAP:

A) One of the ring terminals on a ground connection had a bad crimp. He replaced that ring terminal. The car would not start with this condition.

B) A few weeks later the car again would not start. Greg checked wiring and found a blown fuse in one of the BAP connections. Greg replaced the fuse and it would immediately blow again. The BAP would also get warm to the touch. The issue was resolved with larger gauge wire to the BAP, which was based on forum member recommendations from folks who had experience with the BAP.

12 gauge wire is what I seem to remember it having installed and I believe Greg replaced it with 10 gauge or maybe 8 gauge, but he'll have to confirm the sizes as I don't remember exactly.

To my knowledge that's the extent of what he changed. Each time the BAP had problems the car would not start at all.

Greg did have on his short list to get rid of that thing. You guys know I hate BAPs and this is a prime example of why.

Since cyl 1 was the failure point, it's making me wonder if the stock fuel rails aren't up to the task with a blower even at lower boost levels. I know even with the basic Magnuson kit you get larger fuel rails with front and rear crossovers.

The stock fuel rails just have the one cross over in the middle.

When the engine is torn down either Greg or I will post up what actually failed. As of right now we're pretty sure it's a piston based on compression testing, but obviously won't know 100% until the motor is taken apart.

Also, yes I do think any forced induction car should have gauges installed. Boost and AFR gauges at a minimum. Greg had these on the to do list as well, but like several folks on the forum with superchargers, hadn't installed them yet.

 

[aarcuda]

ok, whats a BAP?

 

[Speedy!]

ok, whats a BAP?

BAP = Boost A Pump.

It's an electrical device that interfaces with the fuel pumps. It increases fuel pump voltage driving the pump faster so that more fuel is provided to the injectors.

A larger pump or dual pumps is much better solution IMO.

 

[SRT5939]

Sucks Greg, but it happens all the time just chalk it up to experience open your wallet and get busy.
Everyone wants to blame the tuner all the time, what a bunch of crap. Maybe it was maybe it was'nt. it don't matter at this point now does it.
Josh tuned my first car and it blew 5 pistons, he has tuned hundreds of cars they are not blowing up all over the country, sh1t happens when you race, fix it and move on.
If I were you I'd buy a BES motor and have Brent tune it.
The proff is in the time slips everyday.
Experience Greg pay attention bud.

 

[aarcuda]

BAP = Boost A Pump.

It's an electrical device that interfaces with the fuel pumps. It increases fuel pump voltage driving the pump faster so that more fuel is provided to the injectors.

A larger pump or dual pumps is much better solution IMO.

ahhhhh, that makes sense. I was thinking a BAP like the MAP but the way you guys were talking, it didnt make sense.

thanks

 

[SRT5939]

ahhhhh, that makes sense. I was thinking a BAP like the MAP but the way you guys were talking, it didnt make sense.

thanks

can't stop watching that avatar

 

[Boatman]

can't stop watching that avatar

LOL that one is classic.

X2 go with a BES engine, they use only the best parts. No low end stuff. It might be a few hundred more but it's worth it. You get what you pay for.

 

[Grinch_392]

Just to throw my cents about the fuel rails. There are numerous cars out there with stock fuel rail and crossover setups with Prochargers and Vortechs with no issues. Is a front crossover and bigger fuel rails a good idea? Yes, but that is definitely not the cause of failure, since there are many Centrifugal Style S/C setups running the stock fuel system with stock motors.

 

[SRT5939]

Just to throw my cents about the fuel rails. There are numerous cars out there with stock fuel rail and crossover setups with Prochargers and Vortechs with no issues. Is a front crossover and bigger fuel rails a good idea? Yes, but that is definitely not the cause of failure, since there are many Centrifugal Style S/C setups running the stock fuel system with stock motors.

well what is the cause of failure?

 

[Grinch_392]

well what is the cause of failure?

I do not want to point fingers at anybody, and it seems there could be a MSD wiring issue here as well. But the general rule of thumb with these cars is its all in the tuning.

My point was just since there was a question as to whether or not the fuel rails not having the front crossover could be the issue - just wanted to state that no centri style S/C changes the fuel rails and there are numerous cars on the road with that style without issue.

Could it have been a freak issue? Sure! I am just stating that I highly doubt it was because of the fuel rail/crossover setup.

 

[Speedy!]

I got your point Mikey. You guy's haven't seen the fuel rails be an issue with other stock boost setups. Got it.

 

[Luv My RT]

I agree 100%, tuning is very important to keep the hemi running properly. We have tuned thousands of hemis, heck in the summer months, we create over 200 hemi tunes PER MONTH. We have had over 4,000 cars on our dyno, with many of them being Hemis.

When trying to "Guess" whats wrong with a car, its important to have more information. One should not simply say, yep, has to be a tune. Parts can fail as well. This particular car has had numerous fueling issues, leaving the car stranded more than once. The owner has run his own wiring to power the fuel system after it had issues. He even called about 2 weeks ago to say the fuse blew on his homemade wiring and that he was going to run a different type of fuse and wiring that wouldn't pop so easy. It could have damaged BAP, pumps or other parts.

We get tons of calls daily from people around the world wanting an over the phone diagnosis as to why their car is acting funny, I tell them without it here, its far to hard to know for sure.

So to blindly point to any one piece is foolish. I suggest and have suggested to bring the vehicle in so we can try to determine the causes and solve the issues.

This is a sweet car and Greg is a nice guy. Hopefully we can get it solved and have it up and running quickly to enjoy in these summer months.

Thanks,

First of all I want to say to Tim & DCX that I did not say your tune failed on my motor. That has been speculation by people on the forum that know more about tuning than I do. As for this car having numerous fuel problems that is a flat out lie. I did have the inline fuse coming off of the battery to blow twice.The second time it blew I called Tim about the problem because DCX wired the power supply going to the BAP into my fuse box during the install. Tim was going to talk to the wiring guy about the problem. 3 days past & I never heard back from Tim. Mean while I have talked to 2 different guys who have wired up BAPs & they both told me the supply line coming off of the battery with the inline fuse is not big enough, This wire needs to be at least 10 gauge 8 is better. So I change out the 12 gauge wire that was getting up to 170 degrees to 8 gauge. No more blown fuses & wire does not get hot any more. I call Tim & tell him what I have done he said they had one other challenger to do the same thing & he would tell his wiring guy what I had done. That totally solved that problem & that was back in October.As for me calling Tim 2 weeks ago I did but it was not about a blown fuse it was about a BLOWN MOTOR.When I called Tim & told him what had happened I was looking for some feed back. Tim took notes on the problem & told me he would get back with me that day that was on March 15 the next call I get from Tim was on Monday March21 & that was after all this got posted on the forum. I knew there was a chance something could go wrong when I had the SC put on but I was running low boost & my tune was told to me by Tim to be very conservative, Guess I am one of the unlucky ones. Just wanted to clear up some wrong information stated by Tim & DCX.

 

[HemiSam]

Seems pretty straight forward to me. If DCX don't feel responsible, well that's their choice I guess.

Suggest you then go to Arrington and have the drop a forged short block in for your and you'll have a 3-year warranty and a proper tune by A.J. "hemituner". Happy happy

Again, sorry for your troubles and I hope to see you at CF2.

HemiSam

 

[chukarboy]

I'm going to check my bap and see what size wire they ran. If the wire was to small and would get hot wouldn't the voltage drop and the fuel pump not speed up or Bap not put out 17.5v and cause the car to go lean?

Kind of scary for a 5 dollar up sized wire.

 

[Luv My RT]

Seems pretty straight forward to me. If DCX don't feel responsible, well that's their choice I guess.

Suggest you then go to Arrington and have the drop a forged short block in for your and you'll have a 3-year warranty and a proper tune by A.J. "hemituner". Happy happy

Again, sorry for your troubles and I hope to see you at CF2.

HemiSam

Sam that sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Still working out some details. Should know soon.

 

[SRT5939]

First of all I want to say to Tim & DCX that I did not say your tune failed on my motor. That has been speculation by people on the forum that know more about tuning than I do. As for this car having numerous fuel problems that is a flat out lie. I did have the inline fuse coming off of the battery to blow twice.The second time it blew I called Tim about the problem because DCX wired the power supply going to the BAP into my fuse box during the install. Tim was going to talk to the wiring guy about the problem. 3 days past & I never heard back from Tim. Mean while I have talked to 2 different guys who have wired up BAPs & they both told me the supply line coming off of the battery with the inline fuse is not big enough, This wire needs to be at least 10 gauge 8 is better. So I change out the 12 gauge wire that was getting up to 170 degrees to 8 gauge. No more blown fuses & wire does not get hot any more. I call Tim & tell him what I have done he said they had one other challenger to do the same thing & he would tell his wiring guy what I had done. That totally solved that problem & that was back in October.As for me calling Tim 2 weeks ago I did but it was not about a blown fuse it was about a BLOWN MOTOR.When I called Tim & told him what had happened I was looking for some feed back. Tim took notes on the problem & told me he would get back with me that day that was on March 15 the next call I get from Tim was on Monday March21 & that was after all this got posted on the forum. I knew there was a chance something could go wrong when I had the SC put on but I was running low boost & my tune was told to me by Tim to be very conservative, Guess I am one of the unlucky ones. Just wanted to clear up some wrong information stated by Tim & DCX.

I''l say it another Tim tune goes kaboom!
The car broke cause the tune is wrong, nobody is perfect 200 tunes a month, don't expect them all to be perfect.If the Tuner tells everyone of his tunes is perfect he's a liar. Everyone makes mistakes.
Funny how these tuners are so perfect all the time till something fails. Then there dipping and dodgeing and blaming the parts or the owner instead of just saying, hey man I'm not perfect lets get fixed for you asap.
Like Bill at Parmont does,or Frank at DSS does stand up guys who know how important we the customers are!

 

[RICHSRT8]

Sam that sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Still working out some details. Should know soon.

I would look into a stock compression forged motor or very close to stock.Seems the guys with stock motors are running great 1/4 mile times.

 

[rwamser]

Seems pretty straight forward to me. If DCX don't feel responsible, well that's their choice I guess.

Suggest you then go to Arrington and have the drop a forged short block in for your and you'll have a 3-year warranty and a proper tune by A.J. "hemituner". Happy happy

Again, sorry for your troubles and I hope to see you at CF2.

HemiSam

I would also suggest that you go with Arrington. They installed a Forged & stroked Motor in my Car the same one that's in HemiSam's and Speedies. While I only have a few thousand miles on the Car I have had NO problems they stand behind their builds and they are professional's once you see their shop you will agree. I might be a little biased but I trust them 110% and they are the only ones I trust my car to . They have another big plus in AJ Berge ( Hemituner ) who does their tuning a super tuner and just a nice guy ro boot ( if you want your car to perform & last he is the Man )
We all have our opions this is mine

 

[RMG]

I would also suggest that you go with Arrington. They installed a Forged & stroked Motor in my Car the same one that's in HemiSam's and Speedies. While I only have a few thousand miles on the Car I have had NO problems they stand behind their builds and they are professional's once you see their shop you will agree. I might be a little biased but I trust them 110% and they are the only ones I trust my car to . They have another big plus in AJ Berge ( Hemituner ) who does their tuning a super tuner and just a nice guy ro boot ( if you want your car to perform & last he is the Man )
We all have our opions this is mine

Any of the Arrington triplets running faster than stock engine, low boost maggies at the track?I'm big on results,for money spent!:scratchhead: