Posting for LUV MY RT....hurt motor last Saturday

15760 Views 130 Replies 32 Participants Last post by chris1992, Jun 10, 2011

Speedy!

Discussion Starter · Mar 21, 2011 (Edited)

LUV MY RT asked me to post this for him since I'm on the forum a lot more than he is.

LUV MY RT from the forum and I are good friends. He's local and we go to the track together. Those of you at ChallengerFest last year will remember him and his wife having the black R/T with the Vortech supercharger.

Last Saturday we went to Beech Bend to run a few passes.

We both slapped on our M&H DRs and he's first to go down the track. He ran a personal best of 12.42 at 110.64. He's got the Vortech setup on his 09' Challenger R/T Auto and was running stock Vortech boost which I believe is 6.5psi and he's running the the Boost A Pump. The temps at the track were in the high 60s and he was running high octane Sunoco fuel. The car was custom tuned, but I'll let him go in to that if he wants.

I didn't see him pull back around after his run so I go to our pit area to check on him. He's sitting in the car with it idling and tells me it feels like it has a miss. I listen to the exhaust and it sounds OK, but the engine was jumping around like he had a big lopey cam in it. NO check engine lights though. Weird.

I figure he's spun the crank pulley and gotten something off balance. We give GSO a call for a 2nd opinion and he asks a few questions and says it might be a broken motor mount since there were no CELs.

The car gets him 120 miles home....still no CEL, but its running pretty rough by the time he gets in the driveway. No smoke or anything outta the exhaust.

He pulls all the plugs and finds one of the plugs in cyl 7 has a bent electrode. The plugs in cyl 1 are fouled. The rest of the plugs look good.

He does a compression check and starts with cyl 7 since it had the bent electrode plug. It reads fine. He calls me and we think he's dodged a bullet. He goes ahead and checks the compression on the rest of the cylinders just to be sure and finds the compression in cyl 1 is way way low.

Crap! He does a wet compression check to see if it's a piston or a valve....turns out it's a piston as when he added a bit of oil to the cylinder the compression came right up.

He's looking at options now and will be coming up with a plan to get back up and running. We're hoping he can still make ChallengerFest2 but things aren't looking good at this point.

I'm sure Greg will post in to this thread when he has time to get on the computer, but he wanted me to give you guys a heads up.

See less See more

41 - 60 of 131 Posts

SRT8U

· #41 · Mar 23, 2011

While true that a wiring issue/ bap issue could cause an issue, although most of the time if there is a short or a blown fuse the car won't run at all as no power will be going to the fuel pump assuming it was wired in correctly. if I am reading this right, does this mean a bap was not run on this car from day one, or is it just that there were wiring issues with it.

As Tim said it is hard to know what really happened unless there was data loggingdone at the time, or you can at least see what the pieces look like later.

Speedy!

Discussion Starter · #42 · Mar 23, 2011

I was careful with the wording of the initial post to avoid it seeming like anyone was being hung out to dry. This thread is just for information sharing and discussion of a failed stock R/T motor with a supercharger. It should not be construed any other way.

Greg has been in contact with Tim about the issue, but is researching how best to proceed with his car.

Now for the facts:

1. Greg has not messed with the tune or fuel system.
2. Yes he did have some issues with the BAP wiring as it had been installed.

There were two issues with the BAP:

A) One of the ring terminals on a ground connection had a bad crimp. He replaced that ring terminal. The car would not start with this condition.

B) A few weeks later the car again would not start. Greg checked wiring and found a blown fuse in one of the BAP connections. Greg replaced the fuse and it would immediately blow again. The BAP would also get warm to the touch. The issue was resolved with larger gauge wire to the BAP, which was based on forum member recommendations from folks who had experience with the BAP.

12 gauge wire is what I seem to remember it having installed and I believe Greg replaced it with 10 gauge or maybe 8 gauge, but he'll have to confirm the sizes as I don't remember exactly.

To my knowledge that's the extent of what he changed. Each time the BAP had problems the car would not start at all.

Greg did have on his short list to get rid of that thing. You guys know I hate BAPs and this is a prime example of why.

Since cyl 1 was the failure point, it's making me wonder if the stock fuel rails aren't up to the task with a blower even at lower boost levels. I know even with the basic Magnuson kit you get larger fuel rails with front and rear crossovers.

The stock fuel rails just have the one cross over in the middle.

When the engine is torn down either Greg or I will post up what actually failed. As of right now we're pretty sure it's a piston based on compression testing, but obviously won't know 100% until the motor is taken apart.

Also, yes I do think any forced induction car should have gauges installed. Boost and AFR gauges at a minimum. Greg had these on the to do list as well, but like several folks on the forum with superchargers, hadn't installed them yet.

See less See more

aarcuda

· #43 · Mar 23, 2011

ok, whats a BAP?

Speedy!

Discussion Starter · #44 · Mar 23, 2011

aarcuda said:
ok, whats a BAP?

BAP = Boost A Pump.

It's an electrical device that interfaces with the fuel pumps. It increases fuel pump voltage driving the pump faster so that more fuel is provided to the injectors.

A larger pump or dual pumps is much better solution IMO.

SRT5939

· #45 · Mar 23, 2011

Sucks Greg, but it happens all the time just chalk it up to experience open your wallet and get busy.
Everyone wants to blame the tuner all the time, what a bunch of crap. Maybe it was maybe it was'nt. it don't matter at this point now does it.
Josh tuned my first car and it blew 5 pistons, he has tuned hundreds of cars they are not blowing up all over the country, sh1t happens when you race, fix it and move on.
If I were you I'd buy a BES motor and have Brent tune it.
The proff is in the time slips everyday.
Experience Greg pay attention bud.

aarcuda

· #46 · Mar 23, 2011

Speedy! said:
BAP = Boost A Pump.

It's an electrical device that interfaces with the fuel pumps. It increases fuel pump voltage driving the pump faster so that more fuel is provided to the injectors.

A larger pump or dual pumps is much better solution IMO.

ahhhhh, that makes sense. I was thinking a BAP like the MAP but the way you guys were talking, it didnt make sense.

thanks

SRT5939

· #47 · Mar 23, 2011

aarcuda said:
ahhhhh, that makes sense. I was thinking a BAP like the MAP but the way you guys were talking, it didnt make sense.

thanks

can't stop watching that avatar

Boatman

· #48 · Mar 23, 2011

SRT5939 said:
can't stop watching that avatar

LOL that one is classic.

X2 go with a BES engine, they use only the best parts. No low end stuff. It might be a few hundred more but it's worth it. You get what you pay for.

Grinch_392

· #49 · Mar 23, 2011

Just to throw my cents about the fuel rails. There are numerous cars out there with stock fuel rail and crossover setups with Prochargers and Vortechs with no issues. Is a front crossover and bigger fuel rails a good idea? Yes, but that is definitely not the cause of failure, since there are many Centrifugal Style S/C setups running the stock fuel system with stock motors.

Reactions: 1

SRT5939

· #50 · Mar 23, 2011

Speedlogix-Mikey said:
Just to throw my cents about the fuel rails. There are numerous cars out there with stock fuel rail and crossover setups with Prochargers and Vortechs with no issues. Is a front crossover and bigger fuel rails a good idea? Yes, but that is definitely not the cause of failure, since there are many Centrifugal Style S/C setups running the stock fuel system with stock motors.

well what is the cause of failure?

Grinch_392

· #51 · Mar 23, 2011

SRT5939 said:
well what is the cause of failure?

I do not want to point fingers at anybody, and it seems there could be a MSD wiring issue here as well. But the general rule of thumb with these cars is its all in the tuning.

My point was just since there was a question as to whether or not the fuel rails not having the front crossover could be the issue - just wanted to state that no centri style S/C changes the fuel rails and there are numerous cars on the road with that style without issue.

Could it have been a freak issue? Sure! I am just stating that I highly doubt it was because of the fuel rail/crossover setup.

Speedy!

Discussion Starter · #52 · Mar 23, 2011

I got your point Mikey. You guy's haven't seen the fuel rails be an issue with other stock boost setups. Got it.

Luv My RT

· #53 · Mar 24, 2011

DCX Depot-Tim C said:
I agree 100%, tuning is very important to keep the hemi running properly. We have tuned thousands of hemis, heck in the summer months, we create over 200 hemi tunes PER MONTH. We have had over 4,000 cars on our dyno, with many of them being Hemis.

When trying to "Guess" whats wrong with a car, its important to have more information. One should not simply say, yep, has to be a tune. Parts can fail as well. This particular car has had numerous fueling issues, leaving the car stranded more than once. The owner has run his own wiring to power the fuel system after it had issues. He even called about 2 weeks ago to say the fuse blew on his homemade wiring and that he was going to run a different type of fuse and wiring that wouldn't pop so easy. It could have damaged BAP, pumps or other parts.

We get tons of calls daily from people around the world wanting an over the phone diagnosis as to why their car is acting funny, I tell them without it here, its far to hard to know for sure.

So to blindly point to any one piece is foolish. I suggest and have suggested to bring the vehicle in so we can try to determine the causes and solve the issues.

This is a sweet car and Greg is a nice guy. Hopefully we can get it solved and have it up and running quickly to enjoy in these summer months.

Thanks,

First of all I want to say to Tim & DCX that I did not say your tune failed on my motor. That has been speculation by people on the forum that know more about tuning than I do. As for this car having numerous fuel problems that is a flat out lie. I did have the inline fuse coming off of the battery to blow twice.The second time it blew I called Tim about the problem because DCX wired the power supply going to the BAP into my fuse box during the install. Tim was going to talk to the wiring guy about the problem. 3 days past & I never heard back from Tim. Mean while I have talked to 2 different guys who have wired up BAPs & they both told me the supply line coming off of the battery with the inline fuse is not big enough, This wire needs to be at least 10 gauge 8 is better. So I change out the 12 gauge wire that was getting up to 170 degrees to 8 gauge. No more blown fuses & wire does not get hot any more. I call Tim & tell him what I have done he said they had one other challenger to do the same thing & he would tell his wiring guy what I had done. That totally solved that problem & that was back in October.As for me calling Tim 2 weeks ago I did but it was not about a blown fuse it was about a BLOWN MOTOR.When I called Tim & told him what had happened I was looking for some feed back. Tim took notes on the problem & told me he would get back with me that day that was on March 15 the next call I get from Tim was on Monday March21 & that was after all this got posted on the forum. I knew there was a chance something could go wrong when I had the SC put on but I was running low boost & my tune was told to me by Tim to be very conservative, Guess I am one of the unlucky ones. Just wanted to clear up some wrong information stated by Tim & DCX.

See less See more

HemiSam

· #54 · Mar 24, 2011

Seems pretty straight forward to me. If DCX don't feel responsible, well that's their choice I guess.

Suggest you then go to Arrington and have the drop a forged short block in for your and you'll have a 3-year warranty and a proper tune by A.J. "hemituner". Happy happy

Again, sorry for your troubles and I hope to see you at CF2.

HemiSam

chukarboy

· #55 · Mar 24, 2011

I'm going to check my bap and see what size wire they ran. If the wire was to small and would get hot wouldn't the voltage drop and the fuel pump not speed up or Bap not put out 17.5v and cause the car to go lean?

Kind of scary for a 5 dollar up sized wire.

Luv My RT

· #56 · Mar 24, 2011

HemiSam said:
Seems pretty straight forward to me. If DCX don't feel responsible, well that's their choice I guess.

Suggest you then go to Arrington and have the drop a forged short block in for your and you'll have a 3-year warranty and a proper tune by A.J. "hemituner". Happy happy

Again, sorry for your troubles and I hope to see you at CF2.

HemiSam

Sam that sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Still working out some details. Should know soon.

SRT5939

· #57 · Mar 24, 2011

Luv My RT said:
First of all I want to say to Tim & DCX that I did not say your tune failed on my motor. That has been speculation by people on the forum that know more about tuning than I do. As for this car having numerous fuel problems that is a flat out lie. I did have the inline fuse coming off of the battery to blow twice.The second time it blew I called Tim about the problem because DCX wired the power supply going to the BAP into my fuse box during the install. Tim was going to talk to the wiring guy about the problem. 3 days past & I never heard back from Tim. Mean while I have talked to 2 different guys who have wired up BAPs & they both told me the supply line coming off of the battery with the inline fuse is not big enough, This wire needs to be at least 10 gauge 8 is better. So I change out the 12 gauge wire that was getting up to 170 degrees to 8 gauge. No more blown fuses & wire does not get hot any more. I call Tim & tell him what I have done he said they had one other challenger to do the same thing & he would tell his wiring guy what I had done. That totally solved that problem & that was back in October.As for me calling Tim 2 weeks ago I did but it was not about a blown fuse it was about a BLOWN MOTOR.When I called Tim & told him what had happened I was looking for some feed back. Tim took notes on the problem & told me he would get back with me that day that was on March 15 the next call I get from Tim was on Monday March21 & that was after all this got posted on the forum. I knew there was a chance something could go wrong when I had the SC put on but I was running low boost & my tune was told to me by Tim to be very conservative, Guess I am one of the unlucky ones. Just wanted to clear up some wrong information stated by Tim & DCX.

I''l say it another Tim tune goes kaboom!
The car broke cause the tune is wrong, nobody is perfect 200 tunes a month, don't expect them all to be perfect.If the Tuner tells everyone of his tunes is perfect he's a liar. Everyone makes mistakes.
Funny how these tuners are so perfect all the time till something fails. Then there dipping and dodgeing and blaming the parts or the owner instead of just saying, hey man I'm not perfect lets get fixed for you asap.
Like Bill at Parmont does,or Frank at DSS does stand up guys who know how important we the customers are!

RICHSRT8

· #58 · Mar 24, 2011

Luv My RT said:
Sam that sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Still working out some details. Should know soon.

I would look into a stock compression forged motor or very close to stock.Seems the guys with stock motors are running great 1/4 mile times.

rwamser

· #59 · Mar 24, 2011

HemiSam said:
Seems pretty straight forward to me. If DCX don't feel responsible, well that's their choice I guess.

Suggest you then go to Arrington and have the drop a forged short block in for your and you'll have a 3-year warranty and a proper tune by A.J. "hemituner". Happy happy

Again, sorry for your troubles and I hope to see you at CF2.

HemiSam

I would also suggest that you go with Arrington. They installed a Forged & stroked Motor in my Car the same one that's in HemiSam's and Speedies. While I only have a few thousand miles on the Car I have had NO problems they stand behind their builds and they are professional's once you see their shop you will agree. I might be a little biased but I trust them 110% and they are the only ones I trust my car to . They have another big plus in AJ Berge ( Hemituner ) who does their tuning a super tuner and just a nice guy ro boot ( if you want your car to perform & last he is the Man )
We all have our opions this is mine

RMG

· #60 · Mar 24, 2011

rwamser said:
I would also suggest that you go with Arrington. They installed a Forged & stroked Motor in my Car the same one that's in HemiSam's and Speedies. While I only have a few thousand miles on the Car I have had NO problems they stand behind their builds and they are professional's once you see their shop you will agree. I might be a little biased but I trust them 110% and they are the only ones I trust my car to . They have another big plus in AJ Berge ( Hemituner ) who does their tuning a super tuner and just a nice guy ro boot ( if you want your car to perform & last he is the Man )
We all have our opions this is mine

Any of the Arrington triplets running faster than stock engine, low boost maggies at the track?I'm big on results,for money spent!:scratchhead:

41 - 60 of 131 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.