Dodge Challenger Forum banner
Cancel

Posting for LUV MY RT....hurt motor last Saturday

15760 Views 130 Replies 32 Participants Last post by  chris1992, 
Speedy!
LUV MY RT asked me to post this for him since I'm on the forum a lot more than he is.

LUV MY RT from the forum and I are good friends. He's local and we go to the track together. Those of you at ChallengerFest last year will remember him and his wife having the black R/T with the Vortech supercharger.

Last Saturday we went to Beech Bend to run a few passes.

We both slapped on our M&H DRs and he's first to go down the track. He ran a personal best of 12.42 at 110.64. He's got the Vortech setup on his 09' Challenger R/T Auto and was running stock Vortech boost which I believe is 6.5psi and he's running the the Boost A Pump. The temps at the track were in the high 60s and he was running high octane Sunoco fuel. The car was custom tuned, but I'll let him go in to that if he wants.

I didn't see him pull back around after his run so I go to our pit area to check on him. He's sitting in the car with it idling and tells me it feels like it has a miss. I listen to the exhaust and it sounds OK, but the engine was jumping around like he had a big lopey cam in it. NO check engine lights though. Weird.

I figure he's spun the crank pulley and gotten something off balance. We give GSO a call for a 2nd opinion and he asks a few questions and says it might be a broken motor mount since there were no CELs.

The car gets him 120 miles home....still no CEL, but its running pretty rough by the time he gets in the driveway. No smoke or anything outta the exhaust.

He pulls all the plugs and finds one of the plugs in cyl 7 has a bent electrode. The plugs in cyl 1 are fouled. The rest of the plugs look good.

He does a compression check and starts with cyl 7 since it had the bent electrode plug. It reads fine. He calls me and we think he's dodged a bullet. He goes ahead and checks the compression on the rest of the cylinders just to be sure and finds the compression in cyl 1 is way way low.

Crap! He does a wet compression check to see if it's a piston or a valve....turns out it's a piston as when he added a bit of oil to the cylinder the compression came right up.

He's looking at options now and will be coming up with a plan to get back up and running. We're hoping he can still make ChallengerFest2 but things aren't looking good at this point.

I'm sure Greg will post in to this thread when he has time to get on the computer, but he wanted me to give you guys a heads up.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
101 - 120 of 131 Posts
chukarboy
RICHSRT8 said:
Did your kenne Bell bap have a boost switch wired in?I have the kenne bell bap and it's wired through a relay and have a 3psi boost switch to activate.
Click to expand...

Mines the same, BAP is only activated when in boost. I would think runnng 17v full time would be hard on the pump not to mention heated fuel.
Reply
Save
Like
MgKenny
I recently installed a Vortech in my SRT8 and it DID come with a Predator which has a tune from Diablosport in it specifically for the Vortech. (I had to update the tune on Diablosport's website and the PN. was VR-7135 as opposed to the U-7135 which is the over the counter version for adding CAI, etc.)

It also has the MSD BAP which activates via a vacuum line which runs right into it. People asked WHY I ran a Fuel Pressure Guage...THIS is why. I get a consistent 60 psi, Idle, under boost...ALWAYS. The BAP (At least the MSD one which came with the SC) works well. I am also using the stock fuel rails with a nitrous adapter to monitor my Fuel Pressure.

I have NOT datalogged since the install and know that I should just to check out my AFR as I haven't added that guage yet. My impression is the car is running rich as it does have a little more "Soot" on the exhaust tips since the SC install.

I also did some datalogging before the install and the best of 10 runs run through the TT Dyno software produced 365 RWHP pre SC.

This whole thread has me scared of getting a custom tune but I guess it has more to do with the Tuner than anything else.

That's the only nice thing (If there is a nice thing) that has ever come from breaking stuff, you always come out stronger and better when repairing the broken stuff. It looks like you will have a bad azz motor when you are done. Good luck with her!!! :thumbsup:
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
Speedy!
Soot on the exhaust tips is normal with a blower. I have it both on my Challenger as well as my 4Runner with a supercharger. It doesn't mean it's rich, it's just the way the combustion works.

On the BAP...here's a big issue for me....say that vacuum/boost line gets pinched or something. The BAP no longer sees when the car's in boost and no longer adds the necessary fuel when in boost....snap crackle pop. Think about it....your whole motor is relying on that $2 vac line. No way jose'.
Reply
Save
Like
MgKenny
Speedy! said:
Soot on the exhaust tips is normal with a blower. I have it both on my Challenger as well as my 4Runner with a supercharger. It doesn't mean it's rich, it's just the way the combustion works.

On the BAP...here's a big issue for me....say that vacuum/boost line gets pinched or something. The BAP no longer sees when the car's in boost and no longer adds the necessary fuel when in boost....snap crackle pop. Think about it....your whole motor is relying on that $2 vac line. No way jose'.
Click to expand...
I guess I better do some datalogging then.

So, bigger fuel pump with regulator and return better?

Does anyone have a suggestion for keeping the fuel pressure up? (Some setups you SC guys run?)
Reply
Save
Like
R
Get a good A/F gauge.A good tuner can dial it in with an email tune.Just have to send him datalogs and what the A/F readings are at certain rpms.Most engines make the most power at 12.5 to 1 A/F.The forced induction tunes are richer to keep the cyl. temps down and prevent detonation(11.0 to 11.5).The BAP is reliable if wired correctly through a relay and monitored.Aftermarket fuel pumps fail too, from poor wiring or failed intank hoses.
Reply
Save
Like
Speedy!
MgKenny said:
I guess I better do some datalogging then.

So, bigger fuel pump with regulator and return better?

Does anyone have a suggestion for keeping the fuel pressure up? (Some setups you SC guys run?)
Click to expand...
You can do a dual pump FORE fuel hat. It's a billet aluminum fuel hat, that carries two pumps. Connects up to the stock fuel line just like stock.

It actually made my fuel pressure go up about 6psi at the rails.

You can get it from shopHEMI.com

I recommend opting for the upgraded wire harness as well. It's "almost" plug and play and will handle the juice the two pumps require no problem.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
Grinch_392
MgKenny said:
I recently installed a Vortech in my SRT8 and it DID come with a Predator which has a tune from Diablosport in it specifically for the Vortech. (I had to update the tune on Diablosport's website and the PN. was VR-7135 as opposed to the U-7135 which is the over the counter version for adding CAI, etc.)

It also has the MSD BAP which activates via a vacuum line which runs right into it. People asked WHY I ran a Fuel Pressure Guage...THIS is why. I get a consistent 60 psi, Idle, under boost...ALWAYS. The BAP (At least the MSD one which came with the SC) works well. I am also using the stock fuel rails with a nitrous adapter to monitor my Fuel Pressure.

I have NOT datalogged since the install and know that I should just to check out my AFR as I haven't added that guage yet. My impression is the car is running rich as it does have a little more "Soot" on the exhaust tips since the SC install.

I also did some datalogging before the install and the best of 10 runs run through the TT Dyno software produced 365 RWHP pre SC.

This whole thread has me scared of getting a custom tune but I guess it has more to do with the Tuner than anything else.

That's the only nice thing (If there is a nice thing) that has ever come from breaking stuff, you always come out stronger and better when repairing the broken stuff. It looks like you will have a bad azz motor when you are done. Good luck with her!!! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

With yours you would get a Tune from Vortech since it is a 6.1L....its just the 5.7L cars that do not have tunes :)


And don't worry about the BAP at your power level. Installed correctly you will not have issues. There are a ton of guys running them for years without issue. If you were a built motor with more boost I would say get the Fore Hat (awesome piece). But nothing wrong with a BAP.
Reply
Save
Like
Flat Top
I dont have no worries about a BAP. Some manufactures use the same pump and very the DC voltage for F.P. from the factory. Info taken from (ENGINE Management Advanced Tuning by Greg Banish.) This is a must have for anyone wanting to know how and why tunes work. Covers Ford, Chevy, Dodge.
I have never had wiring get hot, never blown a fuse, I dont run it through a relay either, its only on for 10 to 14 seconds.
Unless your running the Mile.
FlatTop
Reply
Save
Like
Speedy!
http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f176/vortech-kit-close-call-57054/
Reply
Save
Like
Grinch_392
Speedy! said:
http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f176/vortech-kit-close-call-57054/
Click to expand...
Nothing is perfect.....should I post up all the Supercharger threads with people running a BAP and no issues :D :fight:

Just messing with you man :)

Anything can fail, so one out many is not a end all discussion :)
Reply
Save
Like
Speedy!
Speedlogix-Mikey said:
Nothing is perfect.....should I post up all the Supercharger threads with people running a BAP and no issues :D :fight:

Just messing with you man :)

Anything can fail, so one out many is not a end all discussion :)
Click to expand...
Well, Luv My RT's had problems on three occasions as well, so that's two...and I think there's another just on this forum alone that's had problems.

You're right it's not end all be all on the discussion, but 3 cars out of how many on this forum with problems on these things is a pretty high percentage.

No big deal to me as mine's solid with the dual pump setup from FORE, but folks getting in to this need to know the pit falls.

If it were not so critical to the motor's life it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but if this thing messes up one time in boost you'll need a motor.
Reply
Save
Like
Grinch_392
Speedy! said:
Well, Luv My RT's had problems on three occasions as well, so that's two...and I think there's another just on this forum alone that's had problems.

You're right it's not end all be all on the discussion, but 3 cars out of how many on this forum with problems on these things is a pretty high percentage.

No big deal to me as mine's solid with the dual pump setup from FORE, but folks getting in to this need to know the pit falls.

If it were not so critical to the motor's life it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but if this thing messes up one time in boost you'll need a motor.
Click to expand...
I hear you :) While the FORE kit is excellent and a nice upgrade, I usually do not recommend it unless you are building a stroker motor or something. A lot of work and money for something that is capable of way more than what the stock motor is going to put out.

I have seen a couple of MSD failures happen, but when it did, the car just shut off and wouldn't start up again. Motor never went pop...it actually protected itself and didn't turn back on. Replaced the MSD and smooth operation since.

A correctly wired (soldered connections) with correct fuses BAP will do the job. If anyone of those things is wrong the BAP will fail.

BAPs have been used for years, this isn't a new technology at all.

but I do agree with you, if you are really worried about using a BAP...the FORE hat is the way to go. The thing is a piece of art!
Reply
Save
Like
Speedy!
If they could be designed in such a way that the car won't run with a failure, that'd be fine too. The bottom line is protect the motor. However I'm not sure they can be or ?

What would be really keen is finding a higher capacity pump and just drop it in the bucket to replace the stock one. Maybe the new 392 pump would do the job? That's what we did on the 4Runners we supercharged.
Reply
Save
Like
HemiSam
That would be slick and cost effective solution, J. Higher capacity pump for the 6-8 psi blower installs. Nice and simple.

HemiSam
Reply
Save
Like
Speedy!
I figure it must be easier said than done or somebody smarter than me would have already marketed such a pump. Maybe the stock one has a special connector or something on that ribbed hose, but should be able to change it out one would think.
Reply
Save
Like
HemiSam
I think it's Walbro business more than anything. They like selling a second pump that's already built and paid for. How many would they sell if they did make one of the same size but higher capacity? Enough to justify the outlay??? Call me a cynic ;-)

HemiSam
Reply
Save
Like
Speedy!
Could be. Walbro just makes pumps. They have a standard port on them for connection. Pretty much all their pumps I've seen have the same connector.

Anyone got pics of the stock pump connector? I can't remember what it looks like.
Reply
Save
Like
HemiSam
I can tell you the bottoms on the pumps vary based on the ones I've seen. I've seen different filters with different size openings for Walbros as well based on the ones I had mailed to me or I bought. Also the heights vary so the cases come in different sizes.

HemiSam
Reply
Save
Like
R
The stock pump setup is pretty reliable,don't see many pump failures at all on the LX/LC cars.I'm sure walbro is a good pump,but do they come with a 3/36 warranty to back it up??I don't like adding aftermarket pumps,when the stock pump is quality.Anybody got 100k miles on a walbro?I'm sure at higher HP levels(650rwhp+) you need 2 pumps.I like the crank this performance set up I saw, uses the stock bucket with better wiring and lines.I remember several guys having fuel pump failures with dual pumps and blown intank hoses.These same guys are on their second fuel pump setup.They never mention this.:scratchhead:
Reply
Save
Like
Speedy!
Yep, the dual pump in the stock bucket wasn't a good solution. This was before the FORE hat was available for our cars. The rubber lines even though submersible would get soft in the fuel and in my case the hose clamps cut one of the hoses.

I replaced the hoses and used EFI clamps and about a month later one of the hoses popped off one of the pumps and the engine stalled. I was on my way to CF1 last year when that happened. When the hose went on I cranked down on the clamps, but as the hose softened what was tight become not so tight and it allowed the pressure of the fuel to push the hose off the pump. It was a real bummer fixing that on the side of the road in 100 degree heat lemme tell ya, but luckily was an easy fix.

After that I decided I wanted that rubber line outta my tank period and went with the FORE hat and haven't had a problem since.

Also, I "think" Walbro makes a lot of the OEM pumps, but not sure if that holds true for Chrysler or not.

I agree that the stock setup would be great for 8-10psi cars on stock blocks IF a higher capacity pump could be sourced that drops in the stock bucket. There are lots of guys with Supercharged 4Runners who did just that and used a Walbro 255 in the tank and have well over 100K miles on their rides, but on the 4Runner there was no special connection...the Walbro connection fit like stock so it was just a simple pump swap.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
101 - 120 of 131 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Dodge Challenger Forum
Challenger Talk, the online forum for discussions, reviews of Dodge Challenger, and all things SRT, Hellcat, and Demon.
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General Challenger Discussion Exterior Discussion / Modifications Wheels, Tires, Brakes, and Suspension Performance Modifications Dodge Challenger R/T Specific
Top