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pros and cons of running a snow performance water meth kit? looking for any input and advise. I am have a procharger put on and going to run stock boost. Looking at this kit to help detonation. I will be running stock boost and running at the track time to time. Scat pack shaker 392 all stock except prochager....
 

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I installed my ProCharger along with a Snow Stage 2 kit 7 years ago and it's served me well to this day (knock on wood).

I don't tune for the water/meth, it's just for detonation protection and to help keep AFRs down. I'm not looking to get every ounce of HP out of my stock motor, so I'm OK with sacrificing optimum AFRs/performance for a little protection.

The pump is tapped into my windshield wiper tank, so I also have a little protection from running empty since the warning light will illuminate when it gets too low.
 

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Pros- two buddies have them and like them. If you run straight distilled water, you’re going to have more timing on low boost, and it’s cheap as hell until you want to forge the motor or turn it up. Obviously, this is true of any kit. Snow has a reasonably priced one for what you get in the first two stages. The progressive controller when it’s mapped is different than mapping the pcm, so you have room to play with small changes at low boost that can be water, meth, or some combination. Much cheaper than race gas.

Cons- the snow kit has some parts I wasn’t comfortable with, and wanted more longevity on. So, I paid a premium of about another $100 for steel braided over rubber, and better nozzles with a different controller on somebody else’s kit. That can be done with the snow as well, and it’s shooter preference on which control boxes one likes better.

Also heard some unconfirmed sporadic issues with nozzles clogging and hoses deteriorating. Three things that can guard against that are using quality methanol instead of cheap crap substitutes, making sure you’re using no-kidding distilled water. So, product you put in it- that’s the first thing, and universal.

Why that matters more with the snow kit- thing two and three.
Running straight methanol can damage things over time, like hoses and connectors depending on construction. Snow uses adequate stuff if you’re going to check it about every oil change, and replace worn out hoses and connectors as needed. Again, the more caustic the supply (like denatured alcohol from Lowe’s,) the shorter the interval. Months to year and change, maybe two to three at best. And again, that is more likely to be a problem for straight methanol, and probably never to rarely an issue for a long time with something like a quality 50/50 mix. I’d still check it, but you’re not super likely to find anything crazy during those checks until you finally do. And if you do, you’ll be happy it didn’t turn into a cascading failure. If you find the white worm sludge creeping around, go back to step one and check what you’re putting in your tank. Again, why I prefer a kit with a known-good inline filter and a pressure testing capability built into the controller. Dunno if Snow has that, or if it’s on all of their kits.

You don’t have to worry nearly as much about that with some different hoses and connectors, so that’s something else to upgrade if you want to run straight meth from the hardware store can to save money.

Now, you have filtration to worry about with sediment build up in the hoses and tank coming from the fuel source. How’s their in-line filter compared to some other folks? Do they have one on every kit? Do you want to retrofit or upgrade? More expense tacked on.

How’s their nozzle pattern vs aquamist, coolingmist, or alky control? We know from a ton of data online that it’s adequate, but adequate for what? What’s your break point for both cost and performance?



The bottom line is, injection works, and we’ve known that forever.
For low and moderate boost applications, Snow has a proven kit, especially when you’re running their 50/50 mix or something of at least equivalent or better quality. That data is out there.

You’re going to want to pull the pump on any kit at suggested intervals for service checks anyway, so you can do maintenance while you’re in there if you need to. Again, if you’re not pushing the envelope, and not running straight meth or garbage mix, it should be adequate to good. Kinda like how much octane do you need? “Enough.”

Well, what’s enough?
Plenty of people have them, and seem to be pretty happy with them. I went to a different vendor, but it was a little bit more ($750) for a progressive dual nozzle designed for a hellcat with all steel lines and brass fittings instead of press ons. My goals are probably different, and it’s getting ready to run through a twin screw. It would be the competitor to Snow’s stage III or IV kit. Pros on that’s are less maintenance and knowing that the dude that built it has run the absolute shit out of a bunch of his own built twin turbo grand nationals and corvettes on the same kits he’s selling. Again, time will tell.

I will say it’s a good time to be a consumer. Unless you’re going to do a hell of a lot more mods, the snow kit is probably just fine for not running straight meth for three years or more straight without maintenance or replacing hoses. I’m just lazy and picky. If that’s you and you have some more coin, might look at coolingmist and alky control before deciding on Snow. Not naysaying their product, but just know that the have much better advertising than some of their competition, and you might not have had a chance to do an apples to apples on all the options.

Biggest con is that they have the biggest name right now, which drives the conversation to their narrative. It turns out that narrative still works well under objective observation, but it isn’t the only one out there.

If you’re still on the fence in four or five months, PM me, and I’ll let you know how the alky control kit worked out.
 
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Stupid question, btw.

Are you actually seeing detonation, or is this a hedge/insurance against it?
You might do better with a meth kit over time, but if it’s a short term issue until the pistons or block get done, using an octane booster or some race gas for a season or two might be the less expensive option for a year or two, or whenever you may see another progression in your build.

IIRC, you shouldn’t be seeing a whole lot in the way of problems with your current setup under stock boost with 93 anyway. A couple of cans of Lucas, Boostane, or Torco might be easier than a permanent $400 plus mod, depending on the issues and intended use.
 

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Stupid question, btw.

Are you actually seeing detonation, or is this a hedge/insurance against it?
You might do better with a meth kit over time, but if it’s a short term issue until the pistons or block get done, using an octane booster or some race gas for a season or two might be the less expensive option for a year or two, or whenever you may see another progression in your build.

IIRC, you shouldn’t be seeing a whole lot in the way of problems with your current setup under stock boost with 93 anyway. A couple of cans of Lucas, Boostane, or Torco might be easier than a permanent $400 plus mod, depending on the issues and intended use.
No such thing as a stupid question, you'll make more friends on here if you refrain from starting posts with BS like that.
 

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No such thing as a stupid question, you'll make more friends on here if you refrain from starting posts with BS like that.
The inference was that it was likely my question on that was stupid, not the OP. He probably knows if he has knock or detonation issues, and didn’t likely need me to try and solve a problem he’s seeking help on if it’s already happening.

More of me admitting I don’t know everything about Procharger setups, but may have missed something by thinking I remembered something but didn’t.

Thank you for the hip check if I took your reply out of context, but I’m working under the impression I didn’t do a great job expressing mine fully the first time.


ETA- Dang. Went back to read that earlier today, and that totally came out wrong on text. Should have written “got a dumb question for you” instead, or something closer to that phrasing. Totally understood the second time through how that came across wrong. Whelp, that’s embarrassing. Apologies to all involved in having to decipher that/those that were offended.
 
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A buddy of mine runs a meth kit on his 426 N/A setup and loves it. He can run more timing at all times without having to fiddle with race fuel and mixing fuels. He tapped into the windshield washer tank and used some better nozzles/fittings/lines to ensure nothing goes wrong.

I would run some datalogs on the car when you hammer it the first few times, see what's going on. Check for knock retard. You should also probably get a wideband installed already if you haven't so you know for sure what you A/F ratio is. Any significant detonation or lean condition and your stock pistons could be toast.
 

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The inference was that it was likely my question on that was stupid, not the OP. He probably knows if he has knock or detonation issues, and didn’t likely need me to try and solve a problem he’s seeking help on if it’s already happening.

More of me admitting I don’t know everything about Procharger setups, but may have missed something by thinking I remembered something but didn’t.

Thank you for the hip check if I took your reply out of context, but I’m working under the impression I didn’t do a great job expressing mine fully the first time.
I read you correctly ;)



A Guy
 

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If I had a Centi (procharger) instead of a PD supercharger I would run a water/meth in a heartbeat. My buddy runs it on his BMW procharger and tunes for it. He has a switch that allows him to switch boost levels (6psi without and 9psi with) in case he is running low on water/meth. Pretty nifty set-up.
 

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Stupid question, btw.

Are you actually seeing detonation, or is this a hedge/insurance against it?
You might do better with a meth kit over time, but if it’s a short term issue until the pistons or block get done, using an octane booster or some race gas for a season or two might be the less expensive option for a year or two, or whenever you may see another progression in your build.

IIRC, you shouldn’t be seeing a whole lot in the way of problems with your current setup under stock boost with 93 anyway. A couple of cans of Lucas, Boostane, or Torco might be easier than a permanent $400 plus mod, depending on the issues and intended use.
I inferred your actual intent right away Clownfeet462, but kudos to you for recognizing it might have come across differently.

Thank you, BTW, for a well written post, that objectively critiqued a product without slamming it.

I've toyed with the idea of a water/meth mod on my N/A Scat, sans tuning for the meth, under the assumption that "cooler is always better" with these Hemis. I haven't actually done it because (1) an observational comment by a knowledgeable car guy that if I wasn't intending or prepared to be opening up my heads, I'd never really know what effect such a setup might be having until said effects induced a failure, and (2) the potential gains would not be commensurate with the cost.

Your post gave me a third reason not to pursue this further with your comment on the use of additives to address detonation issues.

Thanks for the input.
 

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I like using additives occasionally but they can leave residue in the combustion chamber. In fact, I have added some Torco to my fuel so it would help me identify if the knock I am seeing is from detonation or the drivetrain.



One other benefit of running water/meth (not sure if it was mentioned) is can minimize carbon/residue build up.
 
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