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I have just spent about 1 hr. reading over this thread, I spend most of my on line time at the 300c forum and have experienced this degragradation due to normal driving. The origional question was about the adaptives (not warranty) and if they affect canned diablo tunes. I still don't think there has been an acceptable simple answer. Does the tune change the parameters/tables that the algorithms use. If they do it seems to me that the adaptives will degrade the "tune" and would need to be re-installed.

I personally am wondering if what you guys are feeling, is the car after it learned it's ltft's. And possibly if you had just become used to it.

Re-installing the tune possibly wipes out the learned fuel trims, and could cause the car to run differently until they were learned again.

I believe there is a fuse you can pull that will wipe those trims without you having to remove and reload the tune. Maybe try that and see if you have the same experience
 

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I've just read this whole thread as my newbie training requirement.

It's kinda funny about everyone being freaked out by tuners that do nothing, blower cars that blow-up because of the canned tune disappearing, etc, etc.

I've been around tuning (or trying to tune) my car computers since 1986 and those wonderful Buick Grand Nationals. Have you seen a GN lately without a laptop in the passenger seat? Probably not. But on that particular car it all started with Hypertech Chips. I think I still have a chip or two laying around. They worked in that basically all they did was tweak the wastegate for more boost. And then owners wanted more and more and even more. Pretty soon they were boosting 30 PSI on a stock bottom end and then BOOM! It was that damn worthless chip.

And then the LT-1's, LS1's, Lightnings, Cobras, and many more message boards, with whom all the owners were asking the same questions I see here. They mostly swore that the factories were against them and they wasted their money on the chip or tuner they just bought. It has all proved to be bunk............

Don't worry folks, things will work out in time. The vendors and scientists are hard at work and it will take time. It took about 5 years for the Grand National vendors and tuners to get up to speed. The Cobra was about the same. I see no other difference here.
Can someone here explain why my stock 06 Magnun R/T AWD would stomp the crap out of my brand new automatic 2010 Challenger R/T. Go figure?
Maybe it was the 91 octane Superchips tune in the Magnum? Who know's?
Dale:guiness::sleep:
 

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I've just read this whole thread as my newbie training requirement.

It's kinda funny about everyone being freaked out by tuners that do nothing, blower cars that blow-up because of the canned tune disappearing, etc, etc.

I've been around tuning (or trying to tune) my car computers since 1986 and those wonderful Buick Grand Nationals. Have you seen a GN lately without a laptop in the passenger seat? Probably not. But on that particular car it all started with Hypertech Chips. I think I still have a chip or two laying around. They worked in that basically all they did was tweak the wastegate for more boost. And then owners wanted more and more and even more. Pretty soon they were boosting 30 PSI on a stock bottom end and then BOOM! It was that damn worthless chip.

And then the LT-1's, LS1's, Lightnings, Cobras, and many more message boards, with whom all the owners were asking the same questions I see here. They mostly swore that the factories were against them and they wasted their money on the chip or tuner they just bought. It has all proved to be bunk............

Don't worry folks, things will work out in time. The vendors and scientists are hard at work and it will take time. It took about 5 years for the Grand National vendors and tuners to get up to speed. The Cobra was about the same. I see no other difference here.
Can someone here explain why my stock 06 Magnun R/T AWD would stomp the crap out of my brand new automatic 2010 Challenger R/T. Go figure?
Maybe it was the 91 octane Superchips tune in the Magnum? Who know's?
Dale:guiness::sleep:
I still have my first HYPERTECH chip in a drawer some place. Miss my scan master too. Sold My 1986 GN this year. Bought her new in 1986. After years of half ass tuning I was running 28lbs boost, Razor's Meth/injection and running 11.40 1/4 mile ET's at will.
I had hundreds and hundreds of drag strip runs on that car. Not a single problem in 23 yrs.
I only hope these Hemi's can take the abuse I gave that little blown 6.
 

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After reading this entire thread, i have a few questions:

1) Has anyone installed a tune, dyno'd, driven 500-1000 miles then re-dyno'd? That would prove the question of 're-learning' or not.

2) The car becoming less responsive as a result of driving conservatively? So if I don't do atleast one WOT run every time I drive the car, it will become slower?

3) If the Diablo tune only permanently (for lack of a better term) effects WOT settings, then how is MPG (part throttle efficiency) increased?

4) Am I able to view and modify the fuel or timing map myself (like with a Power Commander III for example) via a laptop, or do I have to request changes ?

5) What advertised features will not work on my 2010 Challenger R/T 6 speed?

Thanks in advance.
 

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After reading this entire thread, i have a few questions:

1) Has anyone installed a tune, dyno'd, driven 500-1000 miles then re-dyno'd? That would prove the question of 're-learning' or not.
The 'learning' or adaptive part is constantly moving -- doing this would only prove what's true at THAT moment. Unless your driving style/habits, conditions and routes never vary.

2) The car becoming less responsive as a result of driving conservatively? So if I don't do atleast one WOT run every time I drive the car, it will become slower?
In my experience the difference isn't as substantial or drastic as some may believe. The short term adaptives will only move +/- 28% and as I understand it, the short-term adaptive is calculated into small % move from baseline long-term. You would have to progressively drive "conservatively" to see a continued 'loss' in performance. There's a great thread on LX Forums on the CMR History 'program' that discusses the theory behind this.

Also, your driving habits are just one parameter within the calculation. Weather conditions is another so even if you drive 'aggressively' 90% of the time, the adaptive will adjust (up or down) based on weather.

3) If the Diablo tune only permanently (for lack of a better term) effects WOT settings, then how is MPG (part throttle efficiency) increased?
I was under the impression you can tune for part-throttle. It's just more time consuming through datalogging versus a concentrated effort via a dyno.

4) Am I able to view and modify the fuel or timing map myself (like with a Power Commander III for example) via a laptop, or do I have to request changes ?
Yes, you need to purchase DiabloSport's CMR Software. It's fairly substantial in comparison to purchasing the end-user device.

I hope this helps....
 

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I was under the impression you can tune for part-throttle. It's just more time consuming through datalogging versus a concentrated effort via a dyno.
You can only tune timing at part throttle. Fuel can not be adjusted as the car will add or remove fuel as necessary to maintain a 14.7:1 AFR.
 

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14:7 thats way high, lean is mean trim that down tolow 12's
 

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You can't at part throttle. The computer will keep it at 14.7:1.
This is true -- I did some datalogging today around town and it's fairly solid at 14.7 - I was thinking that the VE tables would be adjusted via CMR and that would affect fuel but that's only based on airflow. The computer will keep it as you stated.
 

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Well, if I can't adjust the fuel or timing parameters myself, I don't really see any point in purchasing it.
Someone posted a menu tree and it showed adjustments for 1.5-3, 3-5, etc but I don't remember exactly what it was adjusting (spark maybe)?
So their is no way to tweak the parameters once the tune is installed without the CMR software?
The only benefit, other than recalibrating some enviromental settings, seems to be at WOT. And said benefit still hasn't been quantified.
 

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Well, if I can't adjust the fuel or timing parameters myself, I don't really see any point in purchasing it.
Someone posted a menu tree and it showed adjustments for 1.5-3, 3-5, etc but I don't remember exactly what it was adjusting (spark maybe)?
So their is no way to tweak the parameters once the tune is installed without the CMR software?
The only benefit, other than recalibrating some enviromental settings, seems to be at WOT. And said benefit still hasn't been quantified.
You are misunderstanding something...

You can adjust both timing and fueling at Wide Open Throttle in 3 different RPM ranges.

Further fine tuning requires the use of our CMR software from one of our tuners.
 

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Mike I live in Canada (Saskatchewan) I know thats a mouth full LOL. Any way I am interested in a CMR tune, will it adjust how my adaptives react to my predator tune (93 0ct.) If so how do I find out where to go to get an actual CMR tune?
 

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You are misunderstanding something...

You can adjust both timing and fueling at Wide Open Throttle in 3 different RPM ranges.

Further fine tuning requires the use of our CMR software from one of our tuners.
Understood about the adjustment, that makes sense.

So if I purchase a Predator are you able to send updates for part throttle adjustments if needed? Is there a charge for this? What would I need to do regarding data-loggin? part throttle runs on a dyno with the sniffer hooked up?
Is it (part throttle tuning) even needed though? Won't the PCM attempt to keep the AFR around 14:1 regardless of what accessories I add (shorties for example)?
 

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The more posts I read: What I thought I understood, isn't true. And the less I end up understanding about the Predator.

For a Daily Driver, 09 Challenger SRT: If we block out all conversations about WOT (because I am not at WOT anywhere near as much as I am part throttle), what will the Predator do for me? What will I see? What will I feel? What will I experience?

If not much is changed at part throttle, how will my driving experience change with the Predator and a canned tune?
 

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+1??? I would like to know this too.
 

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The more posts I read: What I thought I understood, isn't true. And the less I end up understanding about the Predator.

For a Daily Driver, 09 Challenger SRT: If we block out all conversations about WOT (because I am not at WOT anywhere near as much as I am part throttle), what will the Predator do for me? What will I see? What will I feel? What will I experience?

If not much is changed at part throttle, how will my driving experience change with the Predator and a canned tune?
I find part throttle is where the Predator is at it's best, especially with a custom tune. Make sure you use autostick mode as much as you can. You will experience smooth, high revving power and harder shifts.
 

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The canned 91 tune in my buddies SRT8 Six Speed feels a bit smoother with the power throughout the rpm range. He just got his first custom tune and again it feels a little stronger still. No dyno but the seat of the pants says 10 hp for the canned tune and perhaps another 10 for the custom. One thing we don't understand with our data logging is why the throttle body is only opening in the 75% range when the motor was buzzed to 6,200 rpm at WOT?
 

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Right, the PCM is in control at part throttle, and until you change heads/cam, there is no need for much part throttle tuning.
So would there be any mpg gains over stock when driving it easy (with the DS tune loaded)?
Mine is a Track Pak so I do not have MDS, any mpg increase over the 18c & 23h would be great. I know it wasn't made for economy but if it can be increased why not.

I am hoping to see an increase in both performance & efficiency when i bolt up the SRT8 shorties & SRT8 mid pipe.
 

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Are there any good tuners out there who want to make me a custom tune for cheap? <3 u!

Do they make a computer program which can import your performance and optimize the variables?
 
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