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2019 Dodge Challenger RT
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well boys, I’ve been thinking about authoring this post for quite some time and I think I’m finally in a financial position to move forward. I’d like to discuss some of the options I’ve been thinking about and get this amazing group’s feedback.

The Car: 2019 M6 Challenger RT.
Unlocked PCM using HP Tuners.
Kooks LT headers and high flow cats.
Upgraded rear axles and prop shaft.
MT DR’s and skinnies.

I work out of the house, so she is not a daily driver per se, but I do need to be able to drive it to the store and back without too much heartburn.

The Goal: Mid to Low 11’s in the quarter mile in crappy FL summer DA. I’d like to discuss the possibility of a very high 10s pass in perfect weather. (The car currently runs about 13.00s in crappy weather. On a “perfect” day she ran 12.5.)

Forced Induction: I’ve got this narrowed down a bit. Please note, my comments are all personal preference. I ain’t dogging on anyone’s preferred power adder, this is just how I am leaning towards making additional power. I’ll be doing the install myself.
  • I’m eliminating centrifugal blowers. I think they’re great, I just don’t think this type fits in with my vision of the car.
  • We are thus far narrowed down to two choices.
    • Kenne Bell - It is not the prettiest blower, but the design is extremely well thought out.
    • Wait on the new Whipple. The existing Whipple has a potential problem with 5.7’s in that it makes a rattling noise when the AC is on. There is a new version coming “soon”. No date has been given. The obvious problem with this choice is that it doesn’t exist yet. It greatly depends on the amount of patience I possess and there is also the factor of dealing with an essentially new product. Do I wait yet more time to see what others think?
    • A note on Maggies and Edelbrocks. I have no issue with either of these. Maggies are very popular here for a reason. I am looking for something slightly more aggressive and if I’m honest I’m being a little illogically contrarian.
Cam: Here is where I need opinions the most. In order to reach my goals do we think it’s necessary to put in a cam more suited to FI? If I have the front clip off anyway, now seems like a good time to do this. Does a Hellcat cam buy me enough increase? Should I go with a custom cam from my tuner? What is the delta between cam and no cam on FI?

Stock Bottom End: I’m going to attempt to stay stock in terms of pistons and rods. This will limit my boost potential to about 7.5 lbs. I’m just not in a position to pull the motor. Neither from a garage space nor skill level perspective.

What else? Fuel? I’m staying 93 octane for the foreseeable future. I’d prefer to use the supercharger kit’s boost-a-pump method. I’m thinking if I’m not going over 8 lbs of boost that should be OK?

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on this. Putting this in writing makes the project “real”. When I do get this actually going I’ll be documenting as much as I can on this board.
 

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both the KB and Whipple produce a lot of heat, the TVS 2300 is great street blower platform but a little small, if your trying to make big power you need to forge the engine anyway, and the Maggie is probably not for you
 

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2015 SRT 392
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If you think that the 2300 Maggie isn't aggressive enough, then you could look into the 2650 Maggie.

I don't know if they make it to fit the non Hellcat motors though (other than I believe that Luke's Race Car has one on her but that might be a one off).

Luke, would you Please elaborate more on that, if you don't mind?

The nice thing about changing the cam is that it allows you to make more power on less boost (depending on the cam that you choose). The engine is a big air pump and the more efficient that you can make it, the better that you'll be. Boost is also just a measurement of restriction and when you make the motor breathe better, you make less restriction. This is why you can make more power on less boost.

In actuality, I don't think that it's the boost that kills our motor's, I think that it's the heat that the boost makes and the fact that the piston rings aren't gapped for boost (gap is too small) because if you took the motor apart and opened up the end gaps a bit that you'd be surprised at how well the motor would hold up.

Just kind of thinking out loud here.
 

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lets address the several questions and issues separately

1- the 6.4 as a naturally aspirated motor, rocks, great engine, the heads will flow stock well into the 750/800 hps range, however the ring land is very thin and not a forged piston, the biggest challenge is keeping the engine from detonating, the key when supercharging is exactly that, good fuel and ample supply of it and great tuning,

the issue is detonation, it will break the thin ring land, and the piece will proceed into destroying the cylinder head, piston, in some case cause catastrophic failure which often can also result in supercharger failure(destruction)

2- recommendation 6 psi or less with a fuel system, and not a boost pump,

3- 5.7 will easily live with a fuel pump system at 8 psi for ever, very robust engine

4- camshaft, by far my favorite cam is the base Hellcat 6.2 cam, great cam for any supercharge application under 950 hps, and a camshaft for naturally aspirated, supercharged or turbos are not the same, all 3 are a very different application, a good supercharger cam is not a good turbo cam

5- the Magnuson Vengeance 2650 will not bolt on to a 5.7 or 6.4 engine

6- the bolt pattern on the cylinder head is different, the 5.7 vvt and 6.4 the bolt pattern is to the center, the 6.2 HC is on the outside, reason why the 2650 will not bolt on

several companies now are making adapter plates

7- second issue, different timing cover, two serpentine belts instead of one, 5.7 and 6.4 use a common belt, the HC 6.2 uses a secondary drive belt system to drive the supercharger, so if your installing a Magnuson or for that matter a large Whipple meant for the HC or a oem supercharger, the front of the engine will need to be converted to HC style

8- Bigred has been converted, Hellcat block, Hellcat cylinder heads, Magnuson 2650 on E85, stock base HC cam
( not Demon or Redeye ), stock HC cylinder heads, not ported and we made 1096 whps which we latter tune down to 950 since traction was a really big issue, the short block is evil, best of everything minus billet caps

9- a short block capable of living above 1200 + whps, will get into the 12k$ range, short block!!!!!
maybe more

whoever thinks that a 1000 whps car is a street car, has not own one yet and will most likely regret it:cool:

Bigred consumes ethanol under full power at approx 3 miles per gallon, maybe a little more, surprisingly driven normally gets 14 to 16 miles per gallon
 

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Easy. 8psi maggie. If you feel you need or want a cam, hellcat cam. I don't like the boost a pump systems, especially on the factory pump. It was never designed to be flowing enough fuel for big power like that. Run a walbro 400 like the API single pump comes with and you'll never have to worry about fuel starvation under 700whp. But 8psi and a hellcat cam can easily get you low 11s with your current set up. If race fuel is an option for track you can always run a race tune and get into the 10s. For reference there's a 1320 Scat that went into the 10s with the only mods being headers/tune and front skinnies. That's at only ~450whp. 8psi/headers/cam is ~550whp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I appreciate all the responses. Thanks!

I'd like to put forth a thought exorcise, if I may.

Kenne Bell offers their 2.8L liquid cooled SC as either a complete kit including:

50lb Injectors
Flash Tuner (ie a starter tune)
Boost-a-pump

Price: $7300

They also offer the same kit minus the injectors, flash tune and boost-a-pump.

Price: $6800.

Since I've got long tubes and a tune already, I's need a custom tune. I'd be tossing theirs out

I'd be looking into JD40's suggestion of getting an upgraded fuel pump. No need for the Boost-a-pump then.

It looks like going with the $6,800 option might be the way to go. If so, what injectors would I need to look at? Would I need to swap out the fuel rail too?

Any thoughts would again be appreciated.
 

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I appreciate all the responses. Thanks!

I'd like to put forth a thought exorcise, if I may.

Kenne Bell offers their 2.8L liquid cooled SC as either a complete kit including:

50lb Injectors
Flash Tuner (ie a starter tune)
Boost-a-pump

Price: $7300

They also offer the same kit minus the injectors, flash tune and boost-a-pump.

Price: $6800.

Since I've got long tubes and a tune already, I's need a custom tune. I'd be tossing theirs out

I'd be looking into JD40's suggestion of getting an upgraded fuel pump. No need for the Boost-a-pump then.

It looks like going with the $6,800 option might be the way to go. If so, what injectors would I need to look at? Would I need to swap out the fuel rail too?

Any thoughts would again be appreciated.
Posi displacement superchargers come with fuel rails. As far as injectors hellcats are a good option that can be had for a good price sometimes, I think they're ~55lb.
Fuel pump you can run the API single pump or if you feel creative just buy a walbro 400/450 pump and modify the hat to hold it yourself.
If you ever plan on 750+whp go straight to a Fore Dual Pump. Remember if you ever run E85 you need a lot more fuel flow as well as components that can handle the high ethanol content.

I still say if you only want low 11s to high 10s a 2300 would be more than good enough but I understand wanting to go a different route

Oh and one final comment, Edelbrock does make a 2650 kit I believe that fits the 5.7. I personally think they're kinda ugly looking but the 2650R is a very impressive blower that has many cars in the 8's. Maybe take a look into that as well if you're interested.
 

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I believe the #5038838AA is the demon/red-eye injector while the other is standard hellcat
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Would there be any significant downside to pre-installing that fuel pump? I recognize there would be no performance difference on a stock car, but would it negatively impact anything?

I'm thinking it's one less thing to do when I go to install my SC.
 

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Would there be any significant downside to pre-installing that fuel pump? I recognize there would be no performance difference on a stock car, but would it negatively impact anything?

I'm thinking it's one less thing to do when I go to install my SC.
I installed my API fuel pump about a week before the supercharger, no issues.
Also pinned the crank 2 weeks before, and starting bolting up different heat exchanger/intercooler parts throughout the week before the complete install. Honestly saved me probably half the time by doing it in pieces that way
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I like the fact that the pump is E85 compatible. Thanks very much for the tip!
 
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