Dodge Challenger Forum banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of this month's Ride of the Month Challenge!

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
See my previous thread here:

2015 R/T Plus Shaker 6MT

Since then I have taken it to 3 different dealers and 1 transmission specialist. After the first one cleaned and lubed the input shaft as per Star Center Case # K3855686 and then said the Chrysler rep said it's driving as designed. Another dealer replaced the shifter assembly after saying they saw it bind up while up on a rack. Both times it seemed great when driving off the lot - then right back to where I was. Trans specialist said it was working as designed - but only drove a few challengers in his day.

So the behavior is notches in really all the gears - primarily 1st and 2nd. Reverse is a bit cludgy too. Sometimes it shifts perfectly. Other times I have to push past 2-3 "notches" to get into gear. With 2nd, sometimes if I don't shove it all the way past the last "notch", it grinds or pushes it out of gear when I release the clutch. I have driven stick shifts since high school, but this is my first muscle car (I learned on an Accord)

At its worst, the stick can get stuck in gear and I have a difficult time getting it out. Sometimes extremely hard to get it out of gear. This makes it very dangerous. I bought the car out of state, had it inspected and was assured it was fine.

It seems other Tremec 6060 drivers are aware of this and Dodge is in denial and refuses to offer a recall from what I've gathered on this forum and others.

So I bought the manual trans high performance trans fluid - I've heard many happy drivers who've tried various synthetic fluids that have improved the performance, but I don't want to "cover up" the problem if I can have it fixed - then I'll add the fluid afterwards. It seemed to get stuck more when I installed the Barton shifter, so I've left that out while I take it to various dealers to try to figure out what's wrong. I've been going to dealers because I bought an extended warranty and it's still less than 5 years old (33k miles), so I'm hoping it will be fixed under warranty.

I'm beginning to get annoyed with how it sticks (I'm a daily driver and drive into the city) and I'm running out of hope that it will be fixed. My next move is to bring it back to the last dealer who replaced the shifter assembly and see what else they can find (at the least, they found a problem and fixed it under warranty so it seems they want the work)

If they can't help me further, I'll replace the trans fluid and begin looking into some of the transmission specialists in my area that Tremec support recommended. At that point, it sounds like I'd be looking at either a rebuild or replace of the trans. My other option is to try complaining to the dealer I bought it from - tell them it's dangerous to drive - but I'm not too hopeful about the outcome there. I'm prepared to invest a few grand to get it fixed, but the more I hear about disgruntled Tremec drivers, the more I wonder if I should try to get a refund or just cut my losses, sell it and get a newer model where this problem doesn't seem to be as prevalent.

Looking forward to any advice on how to advise these dealers to fix this or otherwise what I can do to fix it. Thanks in advance and happy trails.
 

·
Registered
2020 Dodge Challenger Hellraisin Scat Pack
Joined
·
3,722 Posts
No Dodge manual transmission experience but with another car that had a clutch hydraulic system that shared fluid with the brake system and I let the brake hydraulic fluid go 2.5 years between flushing/bleeding (the factory called for a 2 year schedule for this).

'course, at first I was not even aware the fluid was overdue to be replaced. I had been pretty good about staying on schedule with this even though I thought the 2 year flush/bleed was overkill.

But the heretofore smooth engaging clutch was no longer smooth and the smooth shifting transmission was no longer smooth shifting but had turned into a crunch monster. Brake action appeared to be ok.

When I took the car in the SA looked up the car's service history and noted the fluid was 2.5 years old and suggested a fluid service before anything more drastic. While I had my doubts I did have the fluid service done. After the flush/bleed the clutch and transmission were once again smooth. The change/improvement in the clutch action and shifting was just amazing.

In yet another case -- another car -- the 6-speed was kind of lousy at shifting. Mainly just not smooth. The clutch fluid was not the problem. I sort of resigned myself with living with it -- thinking with a 2 year 100K mile warranty if the problem was not normal the transmission would manifest one or more symptoms of such severity that the transmission would have be dealt with and under warranty -- but in the meantime the transmission's behavior really detracted from my enjoyment of the car.

The shift linkage broke and this was fixed under warranty. A newer/better factory shifter was installed and while it was better it didn't really make the transmission better.

Some time later as is my habit I elected to have an early transmission/diff fluid service done. During this service the tech spotted a selector shaft leak. After a couple of weeks of back and forth between the dealer and the factory the factory rather than have the techs fix the transmission decided to replace the transmission under warranty and shipped a new one from the factory.

Thank goodness for that selector shaft leak! The new transmission was an amazing improvement!

My point is you want to make sure there is nothing with the clutch linkage/hydraulic system that can cause the clutch to be the cause of the transmission issue. In my experience the old fluid apparently didn't let the clutch linkage travel fully disengage the clutch which made the shifting a problem. And upon releasing the clutch the clutch apparently did not engage smoothly. I don't quite understand the dynamics of why old hydraulic fluid should cause the clutch to behave this way, but the old hydraulic fluid with I'm sure water in it was the source of the problems.

Next unless you have done this you might consider having the transmission/diff fluid changed. Use the factory recommended stuff, rather than something "exotic" or boutique. The transmission should work just fine with the factory fluid.

Unless the behavior was present before you had the shifter replaced you might want to have the shifter installation double checked. It is possible the dealer that replaced the shifter just botched the job, that the adjustment is not right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
No Dodge manual transmission experience but with another car that had a clutch hydraulic system that shared fluid with the brake system and I let the brake hydraulic fluid go 2.5 years between flushing/bleeding (the factory called for a 2 year schedule for this).

'course, at first I was not even aware the fluid was overdue to be replaced. I had been pretty good about staying on schedule with this even though I thought the 2 year flush/bleed was overkill.

But the heretofore smooth engaging clutch was no longer smooth and the smooth shifting transmission was no longer smooth shifting but had turned into a crunch monster. Brake action appeared to be ok.

When I took the car in the SA looked up the car's service history and noted the fluid was 2.5 years old and suggested a fluid service before anything more drastic. While I had my doubts I did have the fluid service done. After the flush/bleed the clutch and transmission were once again smooth. The change/improvement in the clutch action and shifting was just amazing.

In yet another case -- another car -- the 6-speed was kind of lousy at shifting. Mainly just not smooth. The clutch fluid was not the problem. I sort of resigned myself with living with it -- thinking with a 2 year 100K mile warranty if the problem was not normal the transmission would manifest one or more symptoms of such severity that the transmission would have be dealt with and under warranty -- but in the meantime the transmission's behavior really detracted from my enjoyment of the car.

The shift linkage broke and this was fixed under warranty. A newer/better factory shifter was installed and while it was better it didn't really make the transmission better.

Some time later as is my habit I elected to have an early transmission/diff fluid service done. During this service the tech spotted a selector shaft leak. After a couple of weeks of back and forth between the dealer and the factory the factory rather than have the techs fix the transmission decided to replace the transmission under warranty and shipped a new one from the factory.

Thank goodness for that selector shaft leak! The new transmission was an amazing improvement!

My point is you want to make sure there is nothing with the clutch linkage/hydraulic system that can cause the clutch to be the cause of the transmission issue. In my experience the old fluid apparently didn't let the clutch linkage travel fully disengage the clutch which made the shifting a problem. And upon releasing the clutch the clutch apparently did not engage smoothly. I don't quite understand the dynamics of why old hydraulic fluid should cause the clutch to behave this way, but the old hydraulic fluid with I'm sure water in it was the source of the problems.

Next unless you have done this you might consider having the transmission/diff fluid changed. Use the factory recommended stuff, rather than something "exotic" or boutique. The transmission should work just fine with the factory fluid.

Unless the behavior was present before you had the shifter replaced you might want to have the shifter installation double checked. It is possible the dealer that replaced the shifter just botched the job, that the adjustment is not right.
Yeah the shifter had problems since day 1 so the shifter didn't make it any better or worse. As for the barton, I installed that myself but had the problems before and after.

Will check brake fluid. I remember asking them to check it before I bought the car and they said it looked a bit dirty but nothing to worry about. I think I remember someone telling me that it's linked to the trans fluid on the challenger as well. That has been in the back of my mind today, so I'm glad you brought it up. I'm giving these guys a list of things to check because I'm sick of getting the car back thinking it will be fixed and it still has the same problem.

So you're telling me I need to sabotage my trans that it's so broken it will have to be replaced. Got it :)
Actually one of the techs that seemed to really want to help told me to live with it until it got worse and I can replace it under warranty. In case you can't already tell, I'd rather not wait that long
 

·
Registered
2020 Dodge Challenger Hellraisin Scat Pack
Joined
·
3,722 Posts
Yeah the shifter had problems since day 1 so the shifter didn't make it any better or worse. As for the barton, I installed that myself but had the problems before and after.

Will check brake fluid. I remember asking them to check it before I bought the car and they said it looked a bit dirty but nothing to worry about. I think I remember someone telling me that it's linked to the trans fluid on the challenger as well. That has been in the back of my mind today, so I'm glad you brought it up. I'm giving these guys a list of things to check because I'm sick of getting the car back thinking it will be fixed and it still has the same problem.

So you're telling me I need to sabotage my trans that it's so broken it will have to be replaced. Got it :)
Actually one of the techs that seemed to really want to help told me to live with it until it got worse and I can replace it under warranty. In case you can't already tell, I'd rather not wait that long
No. I am in no way suggesting you should sabotage your transmission. When I wrote my post it crossed my mind one might get the idea I was suggesting or hinting at this but I assure I was not.

I posted the info just to show you that at least in one case a transmission replacement was the solution. Fortunately in my case it was done under warranty. (Out of pocket the techs told me the cost would be around $11,000; $10K for the transmission, $1K to drop the old one and install the new one.)

As I mentioned in my previous post I had resigned myself to just living with the transmission behavior with the idea if the transmission behavior was due to some issue in the transmission that the condition would worsen to the point it would have been addressed under warranty.

I might have also taken the car in specifically to have a tech drive the car to get his professional opinion on whether this was normal or not. And to possibly learn if he had any other ideas to improve the shifting short of rebuilding or replacing the transmission.

Before my first Porsche I can't recall the brake fluid flush/bleed schedule I followed with previous cars. I was taught to at least do a brake fluid flush/bleed when the brakes were done: rotors, pads, or even way back shoes and wheel cylinders. As best I can remember none of the cars had a brake/clutch system that shared brake fluid.

But Porsche was adamant regarding 2 year brake (and clutch) hydraulic system flush/bleed service. And except in one case I adhered to this schedule.

In the case of your car if the brake and clutch hydraulic systems share fluid to do a fluid flush/bleed of both the brakes -- do the brake system first -- then the clutch system. I would use the factory brake fluid.

If the clutch hydraulic system is separate from the brake hydraulic system while it is a bit of a distraction from the primary issue I'd still do a brake system flush and bleed to at least help ensure a long and trouble free brake hydraulic system service life.

Then do a flush/bleed or whatever you can do for the clutch hydraulic system. Maybe just a fluid replacement. Be sure to use the right fluid and do not operate the clutch pedal with the fluid level low to avoid getting air in the system.

Obviously you want to eliminate the possibility the transmission behavior arises from a compromised clutch hydraulic system problem which as I covered in my first post arose from past its change by date brake/clutch hydraulic fluid.

Before the fluid flush/bleed I was almost convinced it was time for at least a new clutch: I don't recall the miles now but it was north of 200K miles on the original clutch; and possibly for a manual transmission refresh as well. The clutch job would have run around $3K while the transmission refresh would have been in the $4K to $6K range. (I didn't get an estimate at the time but with the other car with the leaking selector shaft seal the techs told me to refresh the transmission could have run as high as $6K.)

But fortunately the brake/clutch fluid flush/bleed was the solution. I continued to drive the car and when I sold it I did so with the original clutch and transmission still in the car. Granted the original clutch was worn out: The indication was the amount of pedal force required to work the pedal, but the clutch engagement was still easy to modulate and take offs were still smooth and shifts up or down were still smooth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
509 Posts
GreenHornet, have they looked at the transmission mount, and motor mounts and make sure they are tight and engine trans not shifted in location?
Reason I ask is you say sometimes it shifts fine. I had a truck that had the motor mount on the passenger side split first and then before I could fix it the driver side right after go bad and it made it hard to push the clutch. But it wasn't hydraulic, it was a rod.
I know you have hydraulic clutch, and it may not be applicable in the Challenger, but if one of the mounts happens to not be tight, could the transmission shift to a side or slide back just a centimeter to make it hard to shift?
Its just an idea, from experience, a long time ago.

These intermittent issues are the hardest to find. Does it shift easier at a certain temperature ?
when left in the sun for the day, and easy to shift on the way home ?
Or easy to shift in the morning after a cool night ?
Think about it, and see if you come up with a common denominator.
I hope you find it ,
best regards
parrott
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I just got a call back from the dealer who said they wouldn't do the star center case work because it was for a 2009 and not specific to a 2015 so they couldn't get the work covered by Dodge. I'm so annoyed. He said he would try to drive it some more and see if he can get it stuck in gear but he keeps going back to his tech saying it's shifting as designed and the notches are normal for the gear selector and the input shaft spinning into position. I really don't think they know wtf they're talking about. Maybe you can call them? I don't know what to do anymore.

So frustrated at this point. The service manager said they would do the work but now they're saying they won't do it because this bulletin is for a 2009. I'm 99% sure this would fix my problem. It seems there is no lubrication inside the gear box and it's just metal on metal sometimes when not in position. Other times it shifts right into gear.

I bought the high performance manual performance fluid from tremec, so that is my last ditch, but I don't want to put lipstick on a pig.

Thanks everyone for following along with this. I'm pretty close to just calling the dealer and telling them to shove it or selling it and walking away from challengers after this experience. A lot of this is just venting my frustration, but please let me know if there are any further suggestions for the dealer. I suppose my next move is to try to just do this myself.. ?
 

·
Premium Member
2018 Scat Pack SHAKER in Plum Crazy
Joined
·
3,696 Posts
Just curious, have you driven other Challengers to compare, or other Challenger owners driven yours?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Just curious, have you driven other Challengers to compare, or other Challenger owners driven yours?
I've driven other challengers but not a manual. The first guy that looked at my car said he drove other challengers but I'm not sure if the tech did. I've read enough stories on here of people who have had the same issues and had it fixed to where it becomes to convince me it's not normal. Even if I drove other challengers and knew for a fact it was abnormal, it would still require one of these dealerships to be convinced.
 

·
Premium Member
2018 Scat Pack SHAKER in Plum Crazy
Joined
·
3,696 Posts
I've driven other challengers but not a manual. The first guy that looked at my car said he drove other challengers but I'm not sure if the tech did. I've read enough stories on here of people who have had the same issues and had it fixed to where it becomes to convince me it's not normal. Even if I drove other challengers and knew for a fact it was abnormal, it would still require one of these dealerships to be convinced.
OK, like I said, just curious. I have owed as daily drivers at least a dozen or so manuals since I started driving in 1981, and everyone was totally different from each other. And the more modern top loaders are leaps and bounds over external linkage shifters (or dual cables) so I never knew what a bad shifting transmission was in comparison to other modern ones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
OK, like I said, just curious. I have owed as daily drivers at least a dozen or so manuals since I started driving in 1981, and everyone was totally different from each other. And the more modern top loaders are leaps and bounds over external linkage shifters (or dual cables) so I never knew what a bad shifting transmission was in comparison to other modern ones.
OK, like I said, just curious. I have owed as daily drivers at least a dozen or so manuals since I started driving in 1981, and everyone was totally different from each other. And the more modern top loaders are leaps and bounds over external linkage shifters (or dual cables) so I never knew what a bad shifting transmission was in comparison to other modern ones.
Good to know. I drove a 5 speed manual Honda accord through college, so obviously that was a very different feel. I just spoke to a parts shop that was recommended to me by Tremec. I talked to the guy for a while and he was wondering the difference between the transmission mounting on a 2015 and the newer hellcats and whatnot that don't have this same issue. He thinks if the mounting was improved, this wouldn't be a problem since the tremec 6060 is mounted on the body so when the torque kicks up, it doesn't assist in shifting. I'm paraphrasing, probably terribly.

Poking around to see if someone knows if that could be a contributing factor.
 

·
Registered
2015 SRT, 6 Speed, Sublime Green
Joined
·
1,881 Posts
As suggested, do yourself a favor and seek out someone near you in a Challenger club or similar and see if you can drive another manual car to compare. And have that owner try your car as well. You are making very dramatic conclusions and you owe it to yourself to at least compare it to another car. I’m not trying to minimize or trivialize your plight, but at minimum your transmission situation should be compared to other similar vehicles so you are 100% sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You're right that I should do that for my own sanity. Unfortunately no matter what I find, it won't change what the techs at the dealers find when they drive it and inspect it themselves.

As suggested, do yourself a favor and seek out someone near you in a Challenger club or similar and see if you can drive another manual car to compare. And have that owner try your car as well. You are making very dramatic conclusions and you owe it to yourself to at least compare it to another car. I’m not trying to minimize or trivialize your plight, but at minimum your transmission situation should be compared to other similar vehicles so you are 100% sure.
 

·
Registered
2014 Shaker Boosted 392 Stroker M6
Joined
·
3,002 Posts
The TR-6060 transmission come from Tremec this way, and are used by more manufacturers than FCA. In fact, Mustangs have the same transmission in them. These transmission are rough to shift, especially into 2nd gear. The fix is to replace the stock syncros with hybrid syncros, which only cost $100.00 each. I had mine done by a performance shop that specializes in this, and they only charged me $1,000 labor plus the cost of the syncros. I had mine done before any problems came up other than the rough shifting into 2nd gear.

There is a thread on here somewhere that explains all of this, together with a video, and even has the name of the shop I used, which is in Phoenix, AZ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GreenHornet15

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The TR-6060 transmission come from Tremec this way, and are used by more manufacturers than FCA. In fact, Mustangs have the same transmission in them. These transmission are rough to shift, especially into 2nd gear. The fix is to replace the stock syncros with hybrid syncros, which only cost $100.00 each. I had mine done by a performance shop that specializes in this, and they only charged me $1,000 labor plus the cost of the syncros. I had mine done before any problems came up other than the rough shifting into 2nd gear.

There is a thread on here somewhere that explains all of this, together with a video, and even has the name of the shop I used, which is in Phoenix, AZ.
I've heard this suggestion before and I've considered it. I just fear I would drop all this money into the car out of warranty and then still have an issue..
 

·
Registered
2015 RT 5.7 M6
Joined
·
9,319 Posts
I have a 5.7 M6 and the shifts can be notchy...especially 2nd and 4th...and especially during cold weather. I have had a couple of occasions where I hammered 2nd gear pretty hard (hit full boost) and it literally popped out of gear with a bang. Can't say I have ever experienced sticking gears though. I have tried RP syncromesh and the new Tremec MTF fluid and no real improvement. For me, biggest improvements to shifting were the CDV delete, disabling skip shift in the tune, and the barton shifter but the notchiness still prevails. One piece drive shaft and diff support just tightened things up some more. I suspect maybe syncro rings or the shift fork mechanisms are slightly out of wack.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have a 5.7 M6 and the shifts can be notchy...especially 2nd and 4th...and especially during cold weather. I have had a couple of occasions where I hammered 2nd gear pretty hard (hit full boost) and it literally popped out of gear with a bang. Can't say I have ever experienced sticking gears though. I have tried RP syncromesh and the new Tremec MTF fluid and no real improvement. For me, biggest improvements to shifting were the CDV delete, disabling skip shift in the tune, and the barton shifter but the notchiness still prevails. One piece drive shaft and diff support just tightened things up some more. I suspect maybe syncro rings or the shift fork mechanisms are slightly out of wack.
Thanks - I've gone the same routes - CDV delete and skip shift eliminator. I have the MTF fluid but haven't installed it yet. Sounds like I shouldn't get my hopes up too much. I also bought a barton but removed it as it seemed to make the issue more pronounced and I didn't want to complicate things with the dealerships. le sigh. I guess if the dealerships keep sending me on my way, my options are

1. Keep fighting with them, make threats, say I'll write a letter to dodge, etc. etc.
2. Find an indepdendent shop to look at and try to resolve the issue and pay out of pocket
3. Replace the synchros with hybrid synchros and hope that fixes it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,546 Posts
I wont lie to you OP i was experiencing a lot if not all the same symptoms on my M6 2016 5.7. But after a few thousand miles (about 90k in the past 3-4 years), the symptoms “went away”.

Now, did it fix itself? No. What did I change you ask? Well the usual that people recommend like the CDV delete and a barton short shifter and driven stf fluid.

Now after i did that, i started treating her with a little more agro. I think these transmissions like to be handled rough. Even when just cruising and going into second, I automatically slam it into gear....now this sounds reckless but just hear me out.

I havent gotten stuck in first in almost a year and i think it has to do with driving habits. Previously i would come to a complete stop, then try to yank her out of first, cursing , double clutching and going nuts. Until I realized if I give her very little revs, she slides out of gear no complaints.

Turns out you should be in neutral before coming to a full stop instead of trying to go into neutral after. And going off of this example, i adapted my driving style to the car.

The tremec tr-6060 is a big honkin trans with big tough gears and can be noisy and even want to fight you back, but in my experience very bullet proof.

I noticed very smooth shifting when engaging around 3-4,000 rpm. Anything under that rpm or too close to redline, usually the car will talk to you and let you know she doesnt like it

Now, are there issues with synchros and the input shaft from factory? Maybe. But here i am preaching how much i love it. Don’t abuse her, but I recommend some tough love

Good luck man
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
I know this topic has been sitting for a few days but I wanted to back up what @trippytro posted about being less dainty with shifting. I missed a couple seconds after getting my car. I literally coughed it up the first couple times as me just not being used to it again as ive driven a FWD turbo car for nearly 5 years. That car shifted buttery after I had all the mods done to it so I was blaming most of my issues with "timing" on my part with the clutch and the longer throws. Now, after the 3rd time, i was starting to disbelive my abilities were the issue and started retraining myself to actually manhandle my shifter a bit. As "floppy" as the stock shifter was I felt like I was being easier on it because I could feel it give. I decided to ignore that, realize its under waranty, and started just putting it into gear with positive reinforcement. I've not had one gear grinding issue in over 1000 miles. I still want a Barton shifter for mine as I feel the "quality part" will help me feel like its capable of being manhandled, but for now, mine is shifting much better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,546 Posts
I know this topic has been sitting for a few days but I wanted to back up what @trippytro posted about being less dainty with shifting. I missed a couple seconds after getting my car. I literally coughed it up the first couple times as me just not being used to it again as ive driven a FWD turbo car for nearly 5 years. That car shifted buttery after I had all the mods done to it so I was blaming most of my issues with "timing" on my part with the clutch and the longer throws. Now, after the 3rd time, i was starting to disbelive my abilities were the issue and started retraining myself to actually manhandle my shifter a bit. As "floppy" as the stock shifter was I felt like I was being easier on it because I could feel it give. I decided to ignore that, realize its under waranty, and started just putting it into gear with positive reinforcement. I've not had one gear grinding issue in over 1000 miles. I still want a Barton shifter for mine as I feel the "quality part" will help me feel like its capable of being manhandled, but for now, mine is shifting much better.
Awesome to hear that worked for you. The barton will definitely require a little less effort but its all just timing and listening to the trans.


Now get out there and rip some gears (and be safe)
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top