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2016 Jazz Blue A8 Scat
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Discussion Starter #1
Both completely stock with slicks, what kind of ETs would be realistic from an A8 and an M6 Scat Pack with good drivers and good track conditions?

I expect the A8 will be quicker, but by how much? 2 tenths? half a second? More?
 

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On stock tires? Low 12s with the A8 and mid 12s with the 6spd. With a good driver and traction.

Mid-high 11s have happened with a good driver, good air, and good tires.
 

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2015 Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack
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Based on what I've seen at my local track:

A8 stock - 12.3-12.6
M6 stock - 12.8-13.3

If you put drag radials on them:

A8 - 11.9-12.3
M6 - 12.4-12.8

From what I have seen, the M6 cars are around .3-.5 slower than similar A8 cars. Most are .5 slower, but with a better driver the margin gets narrower.

There was a guy with a white Scat Pack at my track that had hellcat airbox, tune, catch can, 17" rims with bias ply slicks, and 75 shot of nitrous running 12.0 at 117mph in 65 degree air (1000-1500ft DA). I was running 12.0-12.2 at 113mph with just hellcat airbox, Tazer, and drag radials on the stock tune in similar conditions (A8 car). I am now running 11.6 at 117mph with the same mods as last year plus a tune and lightweight wheels. It should run 11.5 in cooler air this fall.

The A8 out 60fts the M6 by quite a bit which is why the ET's are so much better. I've been hitting 1.61-1.63 now with my tune. My buddy with a Hellcat on the stock tune is hitting 1.60-1.62 60ft times. Most of the M6's even tuned are struggling to get into the 1.7's for 60ft times, most are in the 1.8-1.9 range.

There is a guy I know running 11.7's with his M6 Scat Pack, but he lightened it up quite a bit, has it tuned, and is an awesome driver (carbon fiber hood and decklid, removes passenger seat, removes rear seat, lightweight battery, etc). That is not typical though to see.

Hope that helps!
 

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2016 Jazz Blue A8 Scat
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Discussion Starter #4
So the real difference is in the 60ft times?

I'm familiar enough with drag racing to know that a good 60ft can pay big dividends in the 1/4 mile ET.

So if a 6spd could match the 60ft times, of the A8, the rest of the pass would be similar? Or does the A8 gain further down the track as well?

I have been searching around and it looks like the A8 puts more power down on a dyno and the shifts are going to be faster as well, or is this negligible compared to the 60ft times?
 

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I think there's more to it than 60' times, the A8 is just amazingly fast when it shifts. Most folks aren't willing to run their M6 hard enough to close the gap with the A8 cars. It would take a very hard launch combined with speed shifting and even then I don't think it's going to be as fast. From what I've seen at the track the automatic Scat Packs are running about a 1/2 second quicker in the quarter mile and that's with some pretty good manual trans guys rowing the gears.
 

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2015 Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack
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The 60ft is a big part of it, but it's also the fact that it shifts lightning fast and keeps the engine up above 4500RPM basically the entire length of the track. The A8 is a wicked trans.

We have a guy on the other forum that runs 12.3-12.5 pretty consistently and he has over 100 passes on the car already this year, bracket races every weekend, very good stick shift driver. His car is stock except for drag radials and maybe a hellcat airbox. He power shifts every gear change except the 1-2 shift. Most people would be hard pressed to beat him I think.

The A8 has a 4.70:1 first gear ratio. When coupled with the 3.09 rear end gears, that comes out to something like 14.5:1 torque multiplication. That's why these cars 60ft so well off the line. The M6 has a 2.97:1 first gear ratio which when coupled with 3.92 rear end gears has 11.6:1 torque multiplication. Not to mention it's much harder to get a stick car off the line smoothly than an automatic.

The M6 is a great transmission and is a ton of fun to drive on the street, but the A8 is definitely the way to go for drag racing. Just much more consistent and faster.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So to match the 14.5:1 of the A8, the M6 would need a 4.88 rear gear set.....
 

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Here is the best real world example I have on a timeslip. My car, '16 scat pack M6, Hellcat box and 17" DRs....his car not sure of year but a -15-'17 scat shaker A8 with 17" DRs. We ran each other in the finals in the 12 sec class at the Mopar day at Englishtown just saturday. I know I dont have any tune, and based on his times I am assuming but dont know for sure that he doesnt either. If he does, I would expect him to be faster.....if he DOES have a tune I am even happier with my performance LOL. The only other real difference I can confirm is I was running 2 classes and he was running one. My car had 25 minutes cool down and his had about 50 minutes....just the way the classes were running

He was out of it at the finish. I saw him dial down from a 12.15 to a 12.20 just before we ran. I was dialed at a 12.65 all day....so our dials were exactly 1/2 second apart. But, looking at the slip we were both running hard to 1000'....right near the line I backed off hoping he would break out because he had me. I talked to him after and he said he just let off at the finish which is why i was 2mph faster at the finish. So, basically he sandbagged me a little....the car would have run in the 12.teens but he dialed down, gave himself a margin of error, caught me and then maintained the lead. If I had a better light I would have easily pushed him to breakout.

the 60' is big with the autos but so is the MPH. I cant speak for his run as compared to other runs he had that day but he had a fair 60', as did I (actually my 3rd worst of the day now that I scan my slips.....best was 1.838). But, there is also the factor of hitting the shift points with the 6 speed. Also, its hard to get a comparison bracket racing because if you get a good lead to back off etc. But this is a fair comparison at least to 1000 feet.

if I had to say just a ballpark number, A8s are about .5 second faster and its not only the 60', a big part of it is they are carrying about 2 more MPH at the 1/8th mile. So the launch combined with more gears that keep the car above 4500 at all times, it all adds up
 

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2016 Jazz Blue A8 Scat
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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for timeslip. That really puts things into perspective. The other car simply was quicker than you the whole way.
 

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yup, correct. Now, I have no idea about his skills as a driver. If he cut a better 60' he would have been out even more on me at the finish. But thats pretty much the closest apples to apples comparison you will find....same day so same weather, same track, same run side by side....and as I said above, I am completely assuming by his numbers that he has no tune, and also that his car had an extra 25 minutes to cool down, but I have found that A LITTLE overrated on these cars....I have hotlapped cars and gone faster on the second run plenty of times....heres a little more breakdown and how the A8 is faster.....comparing my personal bests to his run.....all of mine are taken from different runs

my times are first
60' 1.762.....1.824
330' 5.219.....5.141
1/8th 8.001.....7.870
1/8th MPH 90.60....90.06.....a note here, both of my 1/8th ET and MPH were on the same run and took place on a day where the DA was minus 306

1000' 10.399.....10.207
1/4 [email protected]@108.5....and he was skating at the line

so, even my best times for the year, all taking place in optimal air conditions, the only place I held my own was 60' and MPH at 1/8th mile.....you drop that same A8 in those conditions and I would expect that cars performance to ratchet up considerably
 

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2015 Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack
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He was running a 1.82 60ft and 90mph trap speed in the 1/8 mile. I'm guessing that is on the stock tune. That or it was a hot day. My car would run 1.69-1.75 60ft times on the stock tune with 20" drag radials and would hit 90-91mph on the stock tune and hit 12.0-12.2 for ET. He must have been spinning a little off the line or wasn't launching optimally.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
It looks like the answer to my question is half a second or a little more....
 

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Yeah a half second and a few mph is a good approximation of the difference. In the right hands, the A8/392 combo has great potential on the strip, you can get well down into the 11s!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
So how do the 5.7's fare with the M6 vs A8? Both 2015+ so that it's apples to apples.

Still about 1/2 second quicker?
 

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I would assume it's similar, but we don't have near the data as we do for the 6.4s as that's the easy choice for someone who wants to spend a lot of time at the track...
 

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I can't speak for the A8 auto's but I have a 13 M6 5.7, I have a 180 T-stat, Corsa Exhaust, and diablo modified tune (by me), also I'm running N20. On my stock clutch with stock gears and a 50 shot, I've gone 1.75 - 1.78 60 ft times, along with 12.30's at 109. For the record I consider myself a very good manual driver. I launch at 4-4500 rpm, and shift at 5700 (on stock cam). Once I install my comp cam 270 and get my 4:30's installed I expect to be somewhere in the 11's on the same combination. The torque multiplier is the main cause for the performance difference in my opinion. I'm super hard headed and refuse to buy build or drive anything with 2 pedals. Not sure for the line of questioning, but hope this helps. As another point up reference, I jetted up to a 75 shot for my last outing, I went 1.75 60, and 12.26 at 104, I backed out at the stripe because I was way out in front for my 12.50 dial.
 

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^ 12.30's in a M6 5.7L is awesome! Nice job man!

Why are you only running a 50 shot though? You mentioned running too fast for your 12.50 class. Are you index/bracket racing? I bet with a 100 shot on a good day you could hit 11.90's.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
^ 12.30's in a M6 5.7L is awesome! Nice job man!

Why are you only running a 50 shot though? You mentioned running too fast for your 12.50 class. Are you index/bracket racing? I bet with a 100 shot on a good day you could hit 11.90's.
I was thinking the same thing. Why mess with the gears? The jets are easier to change!
 

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Because the 5.7 is also sensitive to boast. Not as much as the 6.4 but still sensitive.
I am more impressed his half shafts are holding up. Mine snapped with my first 4,000rpm launch (I knew the risk).
 

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Because the 5.7 is also sensitive to boast. Not as much as the 6.4 but still sensitive.
I am more impressed his half shafts are holding up. Mine snapped with my first 4,000rpm launch (I knew the risk).
From what I've seen/read on here and the other forum, the 5.7L seems to handle 6-8psi boost fine and up to 100-125 shot of nitrous fine in most cases. Much beyond that it seems to be problematic. He could probably jump to a 75-100 shot and be fine. There are several forum members on the other forum that are running superchargers on their stock internal 5.7L's with tens of thousands of miles with no issues (running 6-8psi...Magnacharger, Procharger, etc). But that's not exactly a cheap mod either!

My old R/T was a 6 speed and while it was fun, it was a PITA at the track. I was always afraid of breaking parts. Lots of guys snapped their half shafts. I watched a guy with a 2013 SRT 6 speed completely blow out his rear end right off the line and he launched at 2000RPM and took off what looked to be pretty easy. Spewed out rear end fluid everywhere, bits of gears, etc. Poor guy was done for the day. He already smoked the original rear end and that was the replacement rear end. That's why I went with the A8 this time around knowing I'd want to race it more. Less broken parts and more passes. It seems like some guys are lucky though and never run into any issues.
 
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