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Scat Pack vs 1320 ?

28K views 86 replies 21 participants last post by  kazman 
#1 ·
I'm selling off my bracket car and going back to racing a street car. Most likely will order an 2020 Challenger. I read all the hype about the 1320 cars being .3 faster and built for racing. Marketing hype? Are they worth the $4k price tag? I could car less about being a tad quicker and won't be using the trans brake or launch control. I would have to order a pair of tires with either car (front street tires for the 1320 and drag radials for the scat). I have seen all the hype but haven't found anyone actually competing in a 1320.

Questions:

Are the tunes the same for both cars?
Are the torque converter specs the same as far as stall speed?
Active suspension is a big question. How much of a benefit is it over a non 1320?
Issues being Dis Qualified for having a "trans brake" in the car in foot break only class?
Are the drive trains the same in both cars?


I did have a 2015 Scat A8 and it was a pretty good bracket car out of the box with drag radials.
 
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#2 ·
IMO , the only difference that would apply for you is the stall. The 1320 comes with a higher stall. Not exactly sure of the rpm, but has been stated to be higher. Obviously I would also opt for the 4pot Brembos if you get another scatpack. Susp/wheels/trans brake/ LC/ all mean nothing to me either, as I foot brake my car , and anything else mentioned I ie. susp, etc .. I would utilize my own preferred parts.


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#5 ·
Slidd, don;t know if that is the case. Both cars have 230mm rears. I had over 400 runs on the 2015 on drag radials and had no issues. I do worry about drag racing a car with IRS. I never encountered will spin or hop with the MT Drag radials. I never had any traction issues so the weight transfer will be better in the 1320 but not required for a hook. Actually the 1320 car may RT slower due to the extra front lift (car going up instead of out). Just thought of that maybe issue.
 
#4 ·
The higher stall would be a reason to go for a 1320. I couldn't foot break high enough in the 2015 A8 to cut a light even deep. I think the highest it would go was around 2K without pushing forward. I need to foot brake and leave at 2500-2800 deep. I have no issues deep staging a car. The work around was going shallow off idle on the second amber, taking advantage of the built in fly by wire delay. Down side was that I was unable to enter any event using a Pro 500 tree like Open Comp. I want to keep the warranty and not be forced to install a stall converter or a 3.90 rear end to cut lights on the 3rd amber or Pro tree.
 
#7 ·
The higher stall would be a reason to go for a 1320. I couldn't foot break high enough in the 2015 A8 to cut a light even deep. I think the highest it would go was around 2K without pushing forward. I need to foot brake and leave at 2500-2800 deep. I have no issues deep staging a car. The work around was going shallow off idle on the second amber, taking advantage of the built in fly by wire delay. Down side was that I was unable to enter any event using a Pro 500 tree like Open Comp. I want to keep the warranty and not be forced to install a stall converter or a 3.90 rear end to cut lights on the 3rd amber or Pro tree.
I run the stock stall, with a 3.70 and a 30” tire. Rear swap I’ve done by myself in my driveway three times in less than 3 hours. I’m a little indecisive [emoji2375]. Forgot about the half shafts , but (assuming you’re going in the 12.5 index) at close to stock power , I wouldn’t be too concerned.


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#6 ·

A Guy
 
#9 ·
I'm selling off my bracket car and going back to racing a street car. Most likely will order an 2020 Challenger. I read all the hype about the 1320 cars being .3 faster and built for racing. Marketing hype? Are they worth the $4k price tag? I could car less about being a tad quicker and won't be using the trans brake or launch control. I would have to order a pair of tires with either car (front street tires for the 1320 and drag radials for the scat). I have seen all the hype but haven't found anyone actually competing in a 1320.

Questions:

Are the tunes the same for both cars?
Are the torque converter specs the same as far as stall speed?
Active suspension is a big question. How much of a benefit is it over a non 1320?
Issues being Dis Qualified for having a "trans brake" in the car in foot break only class?
Are the drive trains the same in both cars?


I did have a 2015 Scat A8 and it was a pretty good bracket car out of the box with drag radials.
In Drag Mode, the shift points are higher in the 1320 than the Scat, and are scaled specifically for drag racing.

As far as I have learned, the 1320 has a higher stall speed.

The suspension on the 1320 is different than the track suspension in the Scat; it is built specifically for drag racing, and yes, it makes a huge difference. Below is a picture of a 1320 lifting the front wheels off at launch; at the time of this pic, the 1320 was stock except for an LMI intake, brand of drag radial on back, and the skinnies. I haven't seen any pics of any stock Scats lifting the front wheels.

Whether you'd be DQ'd for simply having a tb or not, you'll have to answer for yourself. All I can tell you is I've run almost 20 times and have yet to be able to effectively use the transbrake when staging without missing the light.

The 1320 comes with the HP70 transmission; I'm not sure what the 2019 Scats come with (may be the same).

979288
 
#11 ·
In Drag Mode, the shift points are higher in the 1320 than the Scat, and are scaled specifically for drag racing.

As far as I have learned, the 1320 has a higher stall speed.

The suspension on the 1320 is different than the track suspension in the Scat; it is built specifically for drag racing, and yes, it makes a huge difference. Below is a picture of a 1320 lifting the front wheels off at launch; at the time of this pic, the 1320 was stock except for an LMI intake, brand of drag radial on back, and the skinnies. I haven't seen any pics of any stock Scats lifting the front wheels.

Whether you'd be DQ'd for simply having a tb or not, you'll have to answer for yourself. All I can tell you is I've run almost 20 times and have yet to be able to effectively use the transbrake when staging without missing the light.

The 1320 comes with the HP70 transmission; I'm not sure what the 2019 Scats come with (may be the same).

View attachment 979288
Green machine is running a 3.90 , Lmi is good for up to .2 et , and skinnies lose about 50 pounds off the front. Very much different from stock.


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#13 ·
In Drag Mode, the shift points are higher in the 1320 than the Scat, and are scaled specifically for drag racing.

As far as I have learned, the 1320 has a higher stall speed.

The suspension on the 1320 is different than the track suspension in the Scat; it is built specifically for drag racing, and yes, it makes a huge difference. Below is a picture of a 1320 lifting the front wheels off at launch; at the time of this pic, the 1320 was stock except for an LMI intake, brand of drag radial on back, and the skinnies. I haven't seen any pics of any stock Scats lifting the front wheels.

Whether you'd be DQ'd for simply having a tb or not, you'll have to answer for yourself. All I can tell you is I've run almost 20 times and have yet to be able to effectively use the transbrake when staging without missing the light.

The 1320 comes with the HP70 transmission; I'm not sure what the 2019 Scats come with (may be the same).

View attachment 979288
I take it that you have a 1320. Just to make it clear the that the trans brake is difficult to use in eliminations. I believe it doesn't have a 2 step which makes it cumbersome to use and set before the tree comes down.
 
#12 ·
I think I'd look for a used 2015-17 Scat and change a few parts to make it perform at least as well as the 1320 version.

I need to see more info about the .3 quicker. There are a few of them out there running and I do beleive "out of the box" they may be quicker due to the converter and drag mode.
But you can swap the converter/gears and add Demon/1320 or aftermarket Demon Killer springs pretty easily with some Lakewood or Viking shocks.

As you mentioned, a dead hook is a dead hook and after that, it's mostly semantics. Who cares if it pulls the wheels? That's just wasted energy.

If you're actually going to drive the car daily, Eco mode is nice for fuel savings and incliment weather and I don't beleive the 1320 offers that drive mode, but the older cars can have it with a Tazer (or if you buy the SRT 392 or 2019+ Scats).
 
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#17 ·
I ran my 1320 for the first time on Friday night. Only 1300 miles, so it's not close to broken in yet. I swapped out the 4 drag radials for a set of P275 Pirelli P-Zeros, and didn't have time to throw on the Drag Radials that I have mounted on a set of Demon reproduction wheels. Other than that, it's 100% stock as delivered, factory fill oil and paper air filter.

Best run was 12.10 @ 114.36. Still have some room for improvement on launch and my last R/T improved .25 after it got about 7,000 miles on it.

That said, I think with more practice and some more miles, it's a legit 11 second car before using drag radials or transbrake, or removing seats, weight, etc. I'm (an athletic) 217lbs, but could probably stand to be the first weight reduction mod.
979528
 
#18 ·
Thanks to all for the reply's I'm still looking for a definite answer. Are the torque converter specs different and is the tuning different and in what ways. I plan to do some semi serious bracket racing which means I need a car that can cut 000-040 lights and run dead on the predicted numbers( doesn't matter how fast 12.1 or 13.1 same thing dead on is dead on). I wasn't able to foot brake my 2015 Scat high enough to cut a light even deep staged. The max rpm was around 2000 and I need to rev to 2800-3000. Yes the launch control had a setting for 3000 but never never worked that high. My work around was going shallow off idle on the second amber. Works fine except leaves out any event running on a Pro 500 tree. The other issue in the 2015 was that it would run .04 slower for no reason 3rd, 4th , or 5th round. Work around was holding numbers and backing into the stripe. Again not an issue however being able to dial "honest" would be a nice change up pitch. So if the 1230 has a 3000 stall converter and better programming to improve consistanty its well worth the option price. I guess that is my real question. Thanks again for all the reply's
 
#21 ·
Info on torque converter posted above, as far as tune, I think unless someone can view the stock tune between the two, Dodge would not be saying ;)

A Guy
 
#23 ·
I'm selling off my bracket car and going back to racing a street car. Most likely will order an 2020 Challenger. I read all the hype about the 1320 cars being .3 faster and built for racing. Marketing hype? Are they worth the $4k price tag? I could car less about being a tad quicker and won't be using the trans brake or launch control. I would have to order a pair of tires with either car (front street tires for the 1320 and drag radials for the scat). I have seen all the hype but haven't found anyone actually competing in a 1320.

Questions:

Are the tunes the same for both cars?
Are the torque converter specs the same as far as stall speed?
Active suspension is a big question. How much of a benefit is it over a non 1320?
Issues being Dis Qualified for having a "trans brake" in the car in foot break only class?
Are the drive trains the same in both cars?


I did have a 2015 Scat A8 and it was a pretty good bracket car out of the box with drag radials.

I've run at the same track on the same day as several 1320 cars. The biggest difference I saw all weekend was they 60' better. So they defiantly have a different tune, at least torque management wise. Which should help with RTs on the tree. On a day while I struggled to run mid to low 1.6s they were all in the mid to high 1.5s it seemed. I was faster so I'm making more power with my few mods, but it was down track when I would start to pull away. I ran 2-3 mph faster all weekend, but similar ETs either a little quicker or the same.

On the bottle was another story though.
 
#25 ·
Just because a 1320 produces a quicker 60' doesn't necessary means it has a quicker RT. The RT is the 6-8 inches the car has to travel forward to allow the rear edge of the front tire to move out of the beam. Possible with the 1320's better weight transfer the suspension is moving more that a Scat Pack and taking more time to move forward out of the beam. I'm also concerned about the more aggressive tune of the faster 1320 cars when the DA changes during a race. Possible the ET swing is larger in the 1320's due to a more aggressive tune? I have over the years de-tuned all of my cars to run a little slower but more predictable. I was cutting high 1.7 - low 1.8 60' on drag radials with my 2015 Scat A8 which most here would say horrible. However the car allowed me to be deadly on the tree and the ET's didn't change much (high to mid 12/s) durning the course of a race..
 
#27 ·
Fair to say that I would never use the transbrake and most likely not use the line lock. I would save $600 or so skipping the 1320 package and get the Dynamics and Suspension packages. Of save $4k and get a plain old Scat A8.
 
#30 ·
The 2020 build site will let you add the Black classic R/T stripe to any color, and the Shaker. The Red or White stripes will remove the Shaker, and only certain colors with both. Whether that's correct, or just the weird build site...

986338


A Guy
 
#32 ·
I can't help it. Fixing wrong quotes, double pictures, etc. Lol

A Guy
 
#40 ·
Lifting the front tire on a stock or near stock car is impressive. Interesting that a 3.90 gear swap created errors. From what I have gathered a tune isn't required. It's not a ring and pinion change but replacement of the entire rear assembly. After all the research I still haven't found anything that shows a 1320 is more competitive to bracket race that a Scat Pack, Yes the 1320 comes with stuff but for $4K how much do they help in bracket competition? Picture of Atco is amazing. Been a long while since I was able to park my car in Atco Winners Circle at the end of the day.
 
#53 ·
with modern vehicles the diagnostics / monitoring of OBD-II has mph / rpm / gear ranges within a tolerance to detect if there's any malfunction with the transmission. Its to keep from grenading a very expensive automatic

so when there's vastly different tire sizes, > 4% differential between front and rear tires or different final drive ratios beyond what it was configured, it will drop into Limp Home mode.
 
#41 ·
I found some of my old time slips from racing the 2015 Scat. Heat soaked, 50lbs front tires, 18-20 rear tires, shallow staged off idle on 2nd amber. 60' was high 1.80's to low 1.90's. 1/8 mile ET was in the low 8 second range at around 85mph. Stock except for MT drag radials. This was my bracket racing setup and yielded good lights. This car allowed me to be competitive in such classes as Pro Elimination at Atco for example, I have never taken that car to Atco but simply use that for reference as to what a crazy hard track Atco is to race on.. $4K question is will a 1320 make for a better bracket car?
 
#45 ·
I know that bracket racing is going against the grain of what most are doing on here. I need to be able to adjust the car so I can cut ETs in the .00x to .04x range. Possible but not often you can get a win with a .100 or worse light. I agree driving a street car to track and then lifting the front tires is amazing.
 
#46 ·
I got this car in August of last year. Only got to do 69 runs before the tracks closed. This was my first A8 Challenger; my previous one (2015 6M Scat) was more of a show car that I raced, but I had over 175 runs in it. Basically what I'm saying is, last year I was on the track merely to run "balls to the wall" to get a feel for the car. I was more interested in seeing how it ran than winning.

This year, I hope to be far more competitive in both Index and Bracket racing. Due to circumstances, many of the mods I wanted to do this winter will not get done, thus I'll be running primarily stock all this coming season. Thus, I'll be running mainly in the 12.50 Index and trying to figure out how to let up or slow down enough to be competitive.

For Bracket races, I'm slowly analyzing the data I recorded for each of my runs from last season, looking to understand how this beast behaves in high DA environments. I think I know the range of ET's I'll be running in, but want to see if the data gives me any insight. I need to bend the ear of some experienced bracket racers (but not in the staging lanes, where they're as apt to gaslight me as inform me) to understand better the nuances of setting my time and recognizing the signs of when/where to lift off the gas.
 
#51 ·
From what I've been hearing, it's going to be a late offering, much like it was for 2019. Don't know for sure, but haven't read anything to indicate they're not going to continue to offer the 1320 option.
 
#54 ·
I have to disagree with this. I had a 2015 A8 Scat and ran a 1" shorter than stock drag radial with no issues. Many here run 17" drag radials which are much shorter (better overall gear ratio) with no issues. Lots of post of hell cat owners going to 3.09 or 3.90 gears with no need to program or limp mode issues. I don't see this as an issue as there should be more limp mode posts. No flames but I haven't seen your statement to be true. I am here to learn sir.
 
#56 ·
Guys some of these comments are silly. A 1320 Scat Pack is a Scat Pack with different struts, converter, and came with a drag radial from the factory. Very very cool, but literally that's the only real difference.

The trans brake feature is neat, but a novelty as the fastest 1320 cars have gone off the foot brake.

Secondly, there is guys that have gone midd 11's with Scat Packs on factory converters, factory tune, and factory suspension.

My statements earlier aren't to bash a 1320 owner or take away from a really good 1/4 mile time, but to say a stock Scat Pack can't run similar ET is false.

Fact is every person running these times are doing so on aftermarket wheels, weight savings of some sort, and usually skinnies - so technically not stock either.

When someone takes a full weight 1320, on factory 20's on all 4 corners, with all 4 seats in, and runs a mid 11 I'll say that they are superior cars.
 
#59 ·
Guys some of these comments are silly. A 1320 Scat Pack is a Scat Pack with different struts, converter, and came with a drag radial from the factory. Very very cool, but literally that's the only real difference.
SRT-tuned Adaptive Damping Suspension with Drag Mode, Line Lock, TransBrake, Torque Reserve and extreme-duty 41-spline half shafts


A Guy
 
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#62 ·
Out of those additions for $4K, the only part I’d be interested in is the axles , so I’d have to pass on that. The knurling on 20” wheels is about as useful as a screen bottom boat.
For someone who just wants to buy a car and track it , I guess it could be attractive.


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#63 ·
Out of those additions for $4K, the only part I’d be interested in is the axles , so I’d have to pass on that. The knurling on 20” wheels is about as useful as a screen bottom boat.
For someone who just wants to buy a car and track it , I guess it could be attractive.


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Uh what.

Why would you be interested only in the axles and not the...

Wider, lighter, best looking Mopar wheels
Trans Brake
Adaptive Suspension
Torque Convertor
Drag Radials

As for knurling, it's a nice detail.

If your not into going fast and racing, why would you care about the axles?
 
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