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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 09 se 3.5l.
I had to replace the engine due to timing belt failure.
I bought a engine on eBay that came out of a wrecked 09 . The grease pencil number on the engine when it was in the car matches the one shipped.
Now the difference in these motors is the flu wheel was thicker AND the bottom 2 holes of the transmission bell housing don't match the block. About 1/2 inch off.
So why the difference? What engine did I get ?
ANY help would be welcomed
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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I have a 09 se 3.5l.
I had to replace the engine due to timing belt failure.
I bought a engine on eBay that came out of a wrecked 09 . The grease pencil number on the engine when it was in the car matches the one shipped.
Now the difference in these motors is the flu wheel was thicker AND the bottom 2 holes of the transmission bell housing don't match the block. About 1/2 inch off.
So why the difference? What engine did I get ?
ANY help would be welcomed
My best guess would be different transmissions behind the engines. One was the old 4 speed auto and one was (is) the 5 speed NAG1.

Which trans does yours have?

Look up the donor car's transmission type using the engine's VIN and if that cars's trans is NOT like yours, my hypothesis is correct.

If they are the same transmissions, I'm wrong and honestly out of ideas what else it could be...
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Regarding the timing belt failure that did in your engine, how many miles did it get to before giving up the ghost?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I got the car with 127000, had it 3days when the tensioner went ...yea my luck..
The trans in the my car is the 42rle, what was in the donor car I have no idea, it's been crushed .
And now the 42rle is bad, ...appairently this car had been flooded with nothing on car fax about it. .
 

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Good luck! You are due.
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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I got the car with 127000, had it 3days when the tensioner went ...yea my luck..
The trans in the my car is the 42rle, what was in the donor car I have no idea, it's been crushed .
And now the 42rle is bad, ...appairently this car had been flooded with nothing on car fax about it. .
Damn, I hate to hear all that...no bueno por caca...

The more I think about this, the more I don't think the transmissions would be the issue here. Either one should bolt that engine, if the engine was installed in front of both transmissions in that year model car, which I am pretty sure it was.

What may be more likely is that they sent you an earlier version of the 3.5L that is a refresh/revision older than the 3.5L engines the Challengers saw. Those danged things have been around, in one design or another, since the 90s, so there are a lot of 3.5Ls out there, but they are not all the same.

The best I can remember, the various versions of the 3.5L each had different plenum designs, and the Challenger's was almost unique among them all (I think Chargers of the same year had the same, but that's it. Definitely not the pre-2008 LXs of any flavor).

Your engine's plenum should have the SRV thing on the front left side (driver's) and no corresponding PCM-actuated valve hootus on the front right side of the plenum. Pre-2009 LXs with the 3.5L had an intake plenum with 2 PCM-actuated valve systems on the front of the plenum, one on each side (as opposed to yours which just as the 1 on left side).

As far as donor cars and their used parts though, the donor car's VIN number is supposed to follow every part it donates (through resale of course) until that part is installed and back in use on another car. There is supposed to be paperwork clearly denoting the original VIN that goes everywhere that part goes, no exceptions. That is ostensibly to prevent, or at least discourage, chop shops and the stolen parts industry they support.

Now, is that practice followed by all salvage yards and parts resellers? Obviously not, as it sound like they didn't provide you with the VIN from the donor car for your engine. The VIN is stamped somewhere on the block if I'm not mistaken, or there is a unique code that can be tied to the VIN, but the location of it is not a publicly known deal and is not supposed to be publicly available for the same reasons above (something about the FBI knows, and that's about it).

Yeah, this sounds like a big box of coat-hangers man, and I hate to say that to you since you are the one experiencing it, but nobody benefits from a sugar-coating here. The best case scenario might be you bluffing the ebay folks into some kind of exchange (or refund!) with threats reporting them to the Attorney General of whatever state they are in. Be sure to mention how you heard that particular AG cut his teeth as an Assistant DA tasked with bringing down a network of chop shops and was successful. Then mention how you bet he probably yearns for some of the good old days to return, and that you'd advise they give consideration to your proposals before rejecting them outright.

Or something like that....obviously you'll want to asses the situation yourself and go from there. If you think you can scare them, do it. What is there to lose, right?


Also, if they absolutely refuse to deal with you or try to make things whole, reporting them to the Attorney General of their state for possibly selling stolen automobile parts should absolutely be something you do. It may not yield much, but it has the best chances of getting them to snap to attention and do something to remedy the situation. Makes sense I guess, if you're a shady crook trying eek out a living cheating the regular Joes on the internet, the LAST thing you want to see in your mailbox is a letter from your state's AG asking for more info regarding your business dealings, right?>:)
 

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Nuke is onto something - I recall the 3.5s were used in FWD applications in those years as well.

Wonder if you got one from a Sebring or Avenger...?
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Nuke is onto something - I recall the 3.5s were used in FWD applications in those years as well.

Wonder if you got one from a Sebring or Avenger...?
Yep, it's starting to look like this theory has some legs...while the year models and car models are different, I suspect the underlying information noted in the allpar thread below might be applicable to the OP's situation as well:

https://www.allpar.com/forums/threads/pacifica-3-5-engine-cross-reference.165266/

The donor car's VIN would be quite useful in proving/disproving all this...If the sellers did not provide it in the paperwork, they aren't following the laws governing salvage part resale AFAIK. Surely that would be helpful in persuading ebay to help pursue a refund/exchange, I would think...but who knows what kind of beat-down that whole process might end up being... :disgust:
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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I have a 09 se 3.5l.
I had to replace the engine due to timing belt failure.
I bought a engine on eBay that came out of a wrecked 09 . The grease pencil number on the engine when it was in the car matches the one shipped.
Now the difference in these motors is the flu wheel was thicker AND the bottom 2 holes of the transmission bell housing don't match the block. About 1/2 inch off.
So why the difference? What engine did I get ?
ANY help would be welcomed
Alright, I've been doing some digging, and it looks like there are 2 variations of the 3.5L that would be found in Dodge/Chrysler vehicles over the years, and it all boils down to Front Wheel Drive (including All Wheel Drive) versus Rear Wheel Drive as to which variation of the 3.5L engine is used in the car.

Further, from what I could gather by doing various year model searches on CAR-PART.com for both FWD and RWD having the 3.5L, the two variations of the engine are NOT interchangeable. This sounds very much like what you have encountered with your replacement engine - you were sent one that will only work in a FWD or AWD application, but your car can only use an engine designed for the RWD application.

I borrowed some pics from that CAR-PART site for comparison here, as I believe you will be able to identify your replacement engine as one of the FWD/AWD variants if you check a few key differences:


From a 2009 FWD car:
2009 FWD 02 with flywheel.jpg
Does the flywheel on your ebay engine look like the one in that pic?



From a 2010 FWD car:
2010 FWD 01.jpg
Make note of where the Throttle Body is located and which direction the air intake tube would point when attached to the TB
It appears as though front wheel drive or all wheel drive 3.5L engines have their TBs mounted on the rear of the engine, looking from rear of engine toward front of engine. Also, an air intake tube attached to that TB would be running away from the rear of the engine, toward the middle of the block facing the rear.



From a 2010 FWD car:
2010 FWD 05.jpg
This is the front of the 3.5L engine in FWD and AWD vehicles. Notice how there is one large black timing belt cover and one smaller greyish timing belt cover? That is the opposite of what the RWD 3.5L looks like from the front. It will have to 2 similary sized timing belt covers,
sitting top versus bottom orientation instead of left to right like original pics.


From a 2009 FWD car:
2010 FWD 04.jpg
Another pic of the backside of a FWD/AWD version of the 3.5L engine. Again, note the odd flywheel and rear facing TB. If your replacement engine looks like that, you've got an engine that will NOT work in your Challenger.


From a 2010 RWD car (such as your Challenger):
2010 RWD 01.jpg
This last pic is of a 3.5L engine for RWD cars. Notice the orientation of the TB (mounted to rear left corner of plenum), and the air intake tube ends up running parallel to engine to get to the air box mounted next to coolant overflow tank.

-------------------------------------------------------

So if this the case with yours, you'll need to get another engine besides the one they sent, because it won't fit in your Challenger. But almost all salvage yards offer some kind of parts warranty of 30-90 days. So you could still have a warranty claim with this one maybe.

And as for how you came to get the wrong engine sent to you, pure speculation is all any of us can do without asking the folks that sent the wrong engine in the first place. The engine could have been tagged incorrectly when it was pulled from the donor vehicle, or it could even be chalked up to the person working the counter that took the order. I worked at a salvage yard between high school and college, and while it was only a few months, I learned pretty quickly that the auto salvage industry does NOT draw the best and brightest our nation has to offer.

Some of those fellas were zoned out 24/7, others were half-drunk most of the time, and there's always at least one gentleman at every yard who is a full-fledged dullard and borderline man-child.

Not everyone that works at the salvage yards will be one of those types of folks, but there will be some of each at just about every yard. So the odds of someone on site handling your order who is likely to muck it up is very good!!

Who knows...whether due to human error or computer error, something got hosed up somewhere, and you got an engine that won't work in your car. My advice would be to work the system as much as you can tolerate - ebay, CC company, the actual business, etc. Use each of their procedures for filing a claim or requesting an exchange and see what happens. They'll be more willing to work with you to make you happy if you try to follow their procedures for complains, exchanges, warranty claims, etc.

Oh yeah, and one last suggestion: check out that Car-Part.com site and see what you can find closer to home in a salvage yard that's local and accessible...Cost should be lower and any issues can be discussed in person if need be, as opposed to handling it all via email or waiting for a 3rd party to get involved (like eBay or CC company).
 

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What would we do without Nuke??? Truly you are a Blessing to us. Thanks from all of us.
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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What would we do without Nuke??? Truly you are a Blessing to us. Thanks from all of us.
SHHHH!!! IX-NAY ON THE OMPLIMENTS-CAY!!!

I have worked very hard over the years to cultivate an aloofish online persona and earn a reputation on this forum as a no-nonsense, street-wise redneck from the mean streets of central Texas, and I want people to think I am someone who gives no quarter and expects none to be given in return. But you are going to cause my whole shaky facade to come crashing to the ground around me if you keep it up with these kinds of posts!
 

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Nuke: how about "Oracle of the [3.5L] V6"?

you know a lot of details about the V6 engines that many owners don't seem to have delved into.

This is important, since as you're aware production of Challengers have SE / SXT models being 40-50% of overall production. That's a lot of V6 models out there.
 

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SHHHH!!! IX-NAY ON THE OMPLIMENTS-CAY!!!

I have worked very hard over the years to cultivate an aloofish online persona and earn a reputation on this forum as a no-nonsense, street-wise redneck from the mean streets of central Texas, and I want people to think I am someone who gives no quarter and expects none to be given in return. But you are going to cause my whole shaky facade to come crashing to the ground around me if you keep it up with these kinds of posts!

Did I say Nuke??? I meant Scat!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Wow thanks! ...well the motor I got works, we swapped out the flywheel with my original , and it all bolted right up.. Runs great, and has been for a year, the only thing wrong was the bottom 2 holes on the bell didn't line up. The trans was already hurt from being flooded, but it hung in there for about 10g miles more.
Just ordered a brand new 42rle for it today.
The motor has the tb intake left side rear just like the pic, the motors look identical I still have the old one in my shop to rebuild.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Timing belt cover and intake plenum ...every things identical. How ever I have Hurd that a different trans was used the later half of 09 they dropped the 42rle...???? If true then maybe this engine was cast for THAT trans ????
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I haven't got to measure stuff out , but it looks like I can drill and tap the block to take the 2 bottom bolts in the flange
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Timing belt cover and intake plenum ...every things identical. How ever I have Hurd that a different trans was used the later half of 09 they dropped the 42rle...???? If true then maybe this engine was cast for THAT trans ????
The 5 speed NAG1 was the only other trans available for the Challengers in 2009, and the only option for 2010 onward. If your replacement engine is identical in all other respects except for the bolt holes you describe, then maybe my original guess is right. That seems odd and counter-intuitive to me that the manufacturer would make a change to the engine block like that while the engine is still in production. But who knows, weirder decisions have made it onto the assembly line before I'm sure.

Was the new one a nag???
If you're asking about Mrs. Nuke, yes, but I'd keep it to myself if I were you. She's got a short fuse and quick hands, and if there's anything sharp within her reach, things could get ugly in a hurry! :wink3:

If you're asking about the other auto trans for the 2009 Challengers, then that's also a 'yes'. But in my experience, it's much quieter than Mrs. Nuke, not apt to explode for no reason like Mrs. Nuke, and you won't ever wake up on the couch with the NAG1 transmission standing over you with a murderous look in its eyes and mumbling incoherently to itself...like Mrs. Nuke has been known to do :surprise:

I haven't got to measure stuff out , but it looks like I can drill and tap the block to take the 2 bottom bolts in the flange
I'm all about making it work if I can...something which you'll see pretty quickly if you read any of my threads on this forum :grin2:

FUNCTION over FORM - that's my mantra!!

Anyway, welcome aboard, and good to hear you got the worm to turn for you a bit finally.

Bookmark this post for future reference on 3.5L maintenance and break/fix tasks: http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/7700450-post6.html

Good luck with your new (to you) Challenger!

Nuke
 

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Discussion Starter #19
When im ready to pull the trans I will use a transfer punch to locate the new holes , the remove the trans and scope it out real good before I drill anything
 
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