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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
No one good answer for this and here is why.

The cam phaser has more to do with emissions than performance on the new engines. The amount the cam is moved is ridiculous for a performance engine especially for the RPM we are running these engines at(35 degrees from factory). The Comp phase limiter is more of a safety device to mechanically prevent the cam from being moved so you have a piston to valve collision when installing a larger than factory cam. When these installs are being tuned properly most or all the cam sweep is taken out of the cam control tables. Then you have the fact that everyone wants to pick cams that are too large for their application because it lopes (that requires a different post). The aftermarket cams are already installed so late in the engine to have enough intake piston to valve they do not want to be retarded. The cam phaser can only retard the cam from the install point.

When do I want to keep my Phaser?
If you are doing a build and adding a piston with a valve relief now is when we can use this to make some power. BUT we can only use this if the engine builder/designer does not use an off the shelf cam that is meant to go in an engine that has no reliefs. Now that we have intake valve clearance we can install the cam advanced enough to take advantage of sweeping the cam with the phaser.
 

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Dodge Challenger RT
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So even if we use the physical limiter, do we still need to lock down the tables to a limit of 14*? HP Tuners has unlocked access to these tables now and from what I read, the computer does a sweep at start-up.
 

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Dodge Challenger RT
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Yes you need to match the sweep with the tune or else you will get a cel

I appreciate MM stepping up and sharing information. I've been hesitant to pursue a cam upgrade because I am not one to simply drop my car off at a shop and have other people do my work but the VVT piece is new to me. I have been on the fence about staying NA vs adding a blower. While I know there are plenty of people adding a blower to stock internals I can't get past adding forced induction to our compression.


Seeing that you were able to hit over 420 whp with the blower cam and supporting mods, while staying NA makes that a great incremental option and addresses my concern about forced induction on our compression. A cam just makes this setup a much safer system in my opinion (moving more air, less detonation probability, more timing).


I really want to add a blower cam and head upgrades this year (already have long tubes and 3" exhaust) and then add the blower next year. I just prefer to do the install and tune on both.
 

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2015 Challenger R/T Plus 8 Speed
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ok so I put a cam in an older "LA" engine (piece of cake). So if I get a "274" cam, which is most popular when I search for cams. So I install it just like my factory cam is installed or do I need to "limit" it? Also if I throw this cam in my car in my garage, I have heard it will not run without a tune. It is a '15 so I presume I need to get the unlocked PCM and a tuner and a "canned" tune for my application before I change cams. Is this correct? I know on the older engines you lined up the timing marks and stuck in an "offset key" to advance the cam 4 degrees and you were done. (well my Cloyes set was 4 advanced, straight up or 4 retarded). This whole VVT and MDS crap makes me feel 10 degrees retarded.
 

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After degreeing cams and seeing its effect on performance, I don't believe phasing the cams is just an emissions idea. It absolutely creates power at various RPM's and is better to have it than not. By disabling it, you will give up power somewhere in the rev band.
 

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2013 Challenger SRT8
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1,467 Posts
i thought comp cam was already grinding in 4 degrees of advance like other makers; who cares about idle...lol... lopey lopey is how we like 'em, 106 LSA in da house

i doubt this one is 106, but it is definitely lopey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5YKvVA0N9s

at this point VVT is really for the mini van driver; if you are serious about using the car from 4 to 6.5 or 7...

MM seems to be driving the Cam shaft talk on this Forum! a good move for a very critical and difficult part of the engine to define and decide on

ODP
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just because a cam sounds good does not mean it performs well or the drivability is good. Not to mentio0n they are a PIA to tune, Even the best tuners out there have had issues. A cam is the heart beat of the engine and should not be a 1 size fits all option.
 

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ok so I put a cam in an older "LA" engine (piece of cake). So if I get a "274" cam, which is most popular when I search for cams. So I install it just like my factory cam is installed or do I need to "limit" it? Also if I throw this cam in my car in my garage, I have heard it will not run without a tune. It is a '15 so I presume I need to get the unlocked PCM and a tuner and a "canned" tune for my application before I change cams. Is this correct? I know on the older engines you lined up the timing marks and stuck in an "offset key" to advance the cam 4 degrees and you were done. (well my Cloyes set was 4 advanced, straight up or 4 retarded). This whole VVT and MDS crap makes me feel 10 degrees retarded.
If that's the case, you should have some top end power but I suggest a high stall Torque Converter! :grin2:
 
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