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I should clarify. My comments regarding poor potential sales were directed to the Hellcat specifically. I agree that the meat of the market are RT sales. My point was why would I want a Hellcat in my driveway when my neighbors 16 year old daughter has an SXT parked beside mind and looks virtually identical. At the potential price point (75k and up), high end buyers want individuality, not sameness.

If the price of the Hellcat nears Viper prices then the Hellcat is DOA.

Either way it makes for interesting discussion.
So the SXT looks virtually the same. Where did you see a Hellcat parked next to an SXT.You havent seen the Hellcat yet but you know it almost looks like an SXT. To many people talking out their rectum.
 

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So the SXT looks virtually the same. Where did you see a Hellcat parked next to an SXT.You havent seen the Hellcat yet but you know it almost looks like an SXT. To many people talking out their rectum.
Not just that but how many high end cars don't look like a lower version of its self? Pretty hard to find under 100k. Camaro zl1, gt500, M cars, amg, audi S cars, V series, even a 911 turbo looks real similar to the Careers and the list goes on. Put the performance oriented car next to the standard and for the most part only the car enthusiast can tell.
 

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Hmmmm. If the Shelby isn't a muscle car, what is it? I don't mean to be argumentative...... Just kind of surprised to hear you say this. If it's a pony car and not a muscle car, isn't the Challenger a pony car too? Do most people on this forum consider the Shelby in a different category than the Challenger?
I don't consider the mustang platform a "true" muscle car. It is really splitting hairs though. I owned the stang Cobra.

I originally said that the Hellcat would be the most powerful true muscle car ever. I was comparing it to history. It will be more powerful than any true muscle car in history. I have never heard of the Challenger referred to as a pony car. But I have heard both terms used on the stang and Camaro. At the end of the day it's really not that important though. They are just terms.

To be honest I really like the Shelby. It's a monster. I wouldn't mind having one myself.
 

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I don't consider the mustang platform a "true" muscle car. It is really splitting hairs though. I owned the stang Cobra.

I originally said that the Hellcat would be the most powerful true muscle car ever. I was comparing it to history. It will be more powerful than any true muscle car in history. I have never heard of the Challenger referred to as a pony car. But I have heard both terms used on the stang and Camaro. At the end of the day it's really not that important though. They are just terms.

To be honest I really like the Shelby. It's a monster. I wouldn't mind having one myself.

The Challenger, I believe, was Dodge's belated answer to the Pony car wars. The new one is clearly bigger than the new Camaros and Mustangs, so maybe it's less true now.
 

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I'm pretty sure that price isn't the only factor keeping folks from buying Vipers... Ever drive one! Yeah, right after you test drove it, you'll know whether you're going to buy it or pass.

The Viper is a great toy! It's not really a good car. Comparing one to a BMW M5, Mercedes E55, CTS-V, etc. is useless. The Viper itself can lose a sale to most people. It's so visceral!!! It's sexy, fast, scary, dangerous and endearing all at the same time. Driving one, your senses NEVER relax while you're behind the wheel. It demands your full attention ALL the time. You can "push" one. But if you do, remember, it'll try to kill you - anytime, anyplace. Most folks aren't "down" with that. :lol:

Oh, and in 2008, the Viper had 600 bhp, 560 lb/ft of torque and weighted 3424 lbs (curb weight). The 2008 BMW M5 - 500 bhp, 383 lb/ft of torque and weighted 4,012 lbs (curb weight). BIG difference!!!!!
 

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The Challenger, I believe, was Dodge's belated answer to the Pony car wars. The new one is clearly bigger than the new Camaros and Mustangs, so maybe it's less true now.
The Challenger's have always been bigger than the Camaros and Mustangs they were matched against. Besides, to make the portions on this car right, I'm thinking it'd lose too much room on the inside for me.

A lot of people love the size of the Sci-ubaru twins. To me, they're too small! But since I'm not buying one, I don't care. Want me not to buy a new Challenger? Make it too small!
 

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Not just that but how many high end cars don't look like a lower version of its self? Pretty hard to find under 100k. Camaro zl1, gt500, M cars, amg, audi S cars, V series, even a 911 turbo looks real similar to the Careers and the list goes on. Put the performance oriented car next to the standard and for the most part only the car enthusiast can tell.
I agree with you. I was replying to some ones remark about why would you pay so much for a SRT or R?T when the look just like a SXT.
 

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I look forward to the 2015.5 Challenger T/A SRT.....:guiness:
 

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If nothing else, word of the Challenger Hellcat (or whatever the offical name will be) is sturring up quite a bit of attention for Chrysler.

Those of us that bought Challengers back in 2009 when Chrysler was going into bankruptcy were worried that it looked like it was going to be a very short run. To see the car refreshed and to know that it is going to be built for at least a few more years is really exciting.

It truly is an exciting time for all car enthusiasts, Chevy, Ford, and expecially for us Mopar folks. : :thumbsup:
 

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Completely agree.

When we take into account the level of performance, comfort, safety, quality, fuel efficiency, and the number of choices available, we are currently in a Golden Age of automobile.

And we are lucky to live in a place where we can drive Mustangs and Challengers, or buy a Nissan GT-R, Porsche Boxster S or an Audi RS5 cheaper than they are in their country of origin.
 

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Yep

Completely agree.

When we take into account the level of performance, comfort, safety, quality, fuel efficiency, and the number of choices available, we are currently in a Golden Age of automobile.

And we are lucky to live in a place where we can drive Mustangs and Challengers, or buy a Nissan GT-R, Porsche Boxster S or an Audi RS5 cheaper than they are in their country of origin.
My wife (from Italy) just priced some cars on Italian web sites (for curiosity sake). We looked at SRT Grand Cherokee, VW GTI and Audi TT. All of them, equally optioned were approx 40% or more expensive.
 

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I don't consider the mustang platform a "true" muscle car. It is really splitting hairs though. I owned the stang Cobra.

I originally said that the Hellcat would be the most powerful true muscle car ever. I was comparing it to history. It will be more powerful than any true muscle car in history. I have never heard of the Challenger referred to as a pony car. But I have heard both terms used on the stang and Camaro. At the end of the day it's really not that important though. They are just terms.

To be honest I really like the Shelby. It's a monster. I wouldn't mind having one myself.
The reason we call Camaro's and Mustangs "ponycars" is because they are light and powerful (or used to be in the Camaro's case). The Challenger is called a muscle car because honestly its a bit overweight. Almost a nice way of saying the Challenger is more like older "muscle" cars weight-wise, but also with a powerful engine.

Problem is that modern cars have to be heavy (or use expensive materials) to pass crash testing...
 

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The reason we call Camaro's and Mustangs "ponycars" is because they are light and powerful (or used to be in the Camaro's case). The Challenger is called a muscle car because honestly its a bit overweight. Almost a nice way of saying the Challenger is more like older "muscle" cars weight-wise, but also with a powerful engine.

Problem is that modern cars have to be heavy (or use expensive materials) to pass crash testing...

The Classic American Pony Car | Difference Between Pony Cars vs Muscle Cars
 
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