Dodge Challenger Forum banner

1 - 20 of 52 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,572 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So after having my car for about a year I got the bug to upgrade the factory audio system. I've been an audio enthusiast for many years and own high end separates for my HT at home. I have dabbled in car audio but not to any audiophile level. When I made this decision I weighed a few options the most important of which was two.

  1. Trying to keep the car as factory looking as possible
  2. Upgrading the system with sound and installation quality in mind
After some research on local installers and toying with the idea to do this myself, I decided on a local installer. The final product looks like this;

  • Center channel - Two 1" audiophile silk dome tweeters cross fired upward
  • Left/Right Channel - 1" Single silk dome tweeters within a sealed enclosure
  • Kick panels - Single 2" silk dome tweeters
  • Doors - 6.5" mid bass carbon fiber drivers
  • Package tray - 6.5" high efficiency coaxial drivers
  • Trunk - 10" carbon fiber driver (fitted in the factory plastic box deadened with Dynamat and filled with fiber filler)
All drivers are installed in the factory locations with the exception of the kick panel speakers. There were no extra amplifiers added.
I really wasn't sure what to expect as I followed the advice of the installer. I can tell you he was very impressed with the design placement of the original location of all the drivers.
All I can say is I've never heard so much detail and staging out of any car system. It is truly amazing what this guy did. Every piece of music that I play through this system now is simply an experience.

BTW, for those that are interested the drivers are made by CDT Audio.

So what have you guys done and what's your impression after it was over.

Would you do the same thing again? For me, it's an ABSOLUTELY.. :thumbsup:

Here's a few pics of the install.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
867 Posts
Alright Sam, I got to hear this system!!!

I had the same goals as you and I did not get the same results.

All my audio stuff is listed in my signature. I did keep the factory head unit and installed the Rockford 3sixty processing unit and its not cheap.

I spent way to much money and took my system back 4 times over a course of 3 months trying to get it to sound right. I changed amps and speakers had pro tuning done with laptop. I also added more speakers with no results.

I kind of gave up blaming the poor sound quality on the acoustics of the challenger.

I'm a classic rock guy and I don't think I'm that critical when it comes to sound quality, this is the most I've spent on the worst sounding system.

To answer your question, No I wouldn't do it again. I would of spent the money forging the motor instead.

Let me know when your free and we can meet up somewhere. I will buy you a cup of coffee.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,572 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Alright Sam, I got to hear this system!!!

I had the same goals as you and I did not get the same results.
You got it my friend. You know J, I knew I should have listened to your system at the Force show and just forgot about it. Matter of fact, you're the reason why I went down this road in the first place.

I did keep the factory head unit and installed the Rockford 3sixty processing unit and its not cheap
I did as well and the installer really liked the quality of the MyGig and how it navigates. You're right, the 3sixty and all quality processors are not cheap. I asked the installer whether I needed one and he said "I really want to do this upgrade right. Start where the weak links are and work from there". At that point I knew all the drivers had to go first.

I spent way to much money and took my system back 4 times over a course of 3 months trying to get it to sound right. I changed amps and speakers had pro tuning done with laptop. I also added more speakers with no results.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. I totally expected the amplifier thing myself as that is the first thing shops try and sell you. LOUD.. This installer was different than any other audio guy I've ever deal with and I've dealt with many. He didn't attack this upgrade by adding power, he wanted to give me exactly what I wanted, fidelity and staging. Loudness for me was secondary.

I kind of gave up blaming the poor sound quality on the acoustics of the challenger.

I'm a classic rock guy and I don't think I'm that critical when it comes to sound quality, this is the most I've spent on the worst sounding system.
Actually my installer commented on how well the car was prepped for great quality transducers. The fact that there is a center channel and it actually works. The large areas in the front of the dash, the door areas. Really the only complaint I have is the fact that we had to put in the factory package tray cover and the material right above the drivers are not real sound friendly if you know what I mean.

I would be more than happy to meet up with you or you can stop by my place. Heck I'm almost on your way home. I'll get the BBQ ready.. :browsmiley: Bring your appetite. :icon_cheers: :hungry: :bigthumb:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
312 Posts
I'm curious about this, too. I've added an amp and subs, but have left the original speakers and head unit. I was thinking about changing out the speakers, but I'm not sure how much of an upgrade it would be when using the stock MyGig radio.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
194 Posts
BTW, for those that are interested the drivers are made by CDT Audio.
So what have you guys done and what's your impression after it was over.
Would you do the same thing again? For me, it's an ABSOLUTELY..
Here's a few pics of the install.
I thought about doing a custom sub like yours to replace the Kicker Sub but decided on a MTX 2x12 for now with MTX Mono Amp.

Haven't done anything up front yet but have all the gear ready to go and just waiting for the local shops to prove to me they can do like your shop did and only do what I ask of them...and let me bring my own gear in.


Currently in the SRT:
Memphis Audio - SigProc - 16-6ix
MTX JackHammer JH600 - 1200W Max, Class D Mono Amp running 600w+ @ 2 Ohm
MTX JackHammer JH5512X2D - 1600W Max, Dual 12" Jack Hammer JH55 Series @ 2 Ohm

Currently in boxes awaiting decision:
Hertz HSK 165 6.5 Separates (http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/Doc/pdf_hsk165.pdf) - Best sounding speakers I've ever had!!!!
4 Channel - Memphis Audio Amp 16-PR4.50
2 Channel - Memphis Audio Amp 16-SC2.120
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,572 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I'm curious about this, too. I've added an amp and subs, but have left the original speakers and head unit. I was thinking about changing out the speakers, but I'm not sure how much of an upgrade it would be when using the stock MyGig radio.
To be honest with you, you're not alone. Most people do audio upgrades backward. Rather than looking at transducers, most people just add power thinking that the extra volume will yield good results when the opposite is true. Think of it this way, by adding power to mediocre transducers the system will reproduce louder mediocre sound. We approached this from a different angle, it caught me a little off guard when the installer made the suggestion as I said earlier. I totally expected your typical sales pitch as to why I needed this and that, so I was pleasantly surprised when in the end there was no amplification. I actually walked into his shop ready to buy amps and transducers and processors at which point he said, "I'll take your money if you want but that's not really the direction we need to go, at least not right now". :scratchhead: Let's analyze the interior, install the transducers and analyze it again and see what it looks like. I looked at the analysis curves and the difference was night and day.
This type of thing doesn't happen very often, generally you walk into a shop and they could care lees about what you really want, or about what sounds good. Sound is very subjective, what may sound good to one may not sound good to another. What does not change is frequency dynamics and sound pressure reinforcement. What is difficult to obtain in a car is staging and imaging. This is a very difficult problem to solve just from the proximity point of view of the high frequency transducers in any car in general. This is not that big of an issue in our cars as the addition of the kick panel drivers and the stock placement of the dash drivers do a great job with regards to solving this.

By no means am I saying that more amplifiers would not be welcomed, I am saying that what's in there, paired up with the right transducers has the ability to reproduce some very nice fidelity.

If anyone would like info on this installer PM me and I'll be happy to give you his contact info.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,572 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I thought about doing a custom sub like yours to replace the Kicker Sub but decided on a MTX 2x12 for now with MTX Mono Amp.

Haven't done anything up front yet but have all the gear ready to go and just waiting for the local shops to prove to me they can do like your shop did and only do what I ask of them...and let me bring my own gear in.


Currently in the SRT:
Memphis Audio - SigProc - 16-6ix
MTX JackHammer JH600 - 1200W Max, Class D Mono Amp running 600w+ @ 2 Ohm
MTX JackHammer JH5512X2D - 1600W Max, Dual 12" Jack Hammer JH55 Series @ 2 Ohm

Currently in boxes awaiting decision:
Hertz HSK 165 6.5 Separates (http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/Doc/pdf_hsk165.pdf) - Best sounding speakers I've ever had!!!!
4 Channel - Memphis Audio Amp 16-PR4.50
2 Channel - Memphis Audio Amp 16-SC2.120
I would make sure whatever you put in the dash make sure you put it in an enclosure of some kind. Unless they are sealed tweeters, then you don't have to worry about it. There is plenty of room under the grilles for the enclosures, even in the center. This will eliminate sound bouncing around inside the dash. Until my installer mentioned this I really didn't even think about it. :thumbsup:

Here are more pics..
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
i too am looking at upgrading the factory speakers and amps to my srt. I have the option group II, (the kicker system) and i have a few questions to those who have done installs already. I would be looking to have this professionally done as I am totally green with this, so please bear with me:

is there any issues with rattling or squeaking of panels being removed and put back on?
I have the nav/my gig system, is there any need to have a clean sweep type signal processor product put in?
I am looking at focal, jl audio and pioneer stage 4. any recommendations for one or the other would be appreciated.

thanks guys.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,572 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
i too am looking at upgrading the factory speakers and amps to my srt. I have the option group II, (the kicker system) and i have a few questions to those who have done installs already. I would be looking to have this professionally done as I am totally green with this, so please bear with me:

is there any issues with rattling or squeaking of panels being removed and put back on?
I have the nav/my gig system, is there any need to have a clean sweep type signal processor product put in?
I am looking at focal, jl audio and pioneer stage 4. any recommendations for one or the other would be appreciated.

thanks guys.
Question 1 = That depends on a lot of factors. The more bass you reproduce in the doors, the more likely it will generate rattling noises. All in all, if an installer takes precautions when the panels are reassembled it should minimize this issue.

Question 2 = Processors are very expensive and for the most part not necessary. It really boils down to what your budget is and your priorities with regards to sound quality. As I stated in my previous post, most installers and car owners do this type of thing backward. They start at the head unit and work forward to the transducers. I'm from a different school of thought (as was my installer), I start at the transducers and worked my way back. You would be shocked what is revealed when working with just types of drivers and placement. This is why I stated earlier that this car has the proper placement, it just doesn't have the quality transducers in it.

Here is what most people don't understand about amplification. Let's say you start with a 100w 2 channel amp. In order to get a 3db increase in sound pressure (which is a audible noticeable increase in volume), you have double the the output power. Yep, double the output. Your 200w amp now has to to put out 400w. To get another 3db you now have to go to, you guessed it, 800w. This is exponential. I don't have to tell how expensive this can get. There's only so much sound pressure you can put into a car's passenger compartment before your ears start to talk to you.

Question 3 = There are so many speaker manufacturers out there it makes me ill. A good rule of thumb is, DO NOT buy into marketing gimmicks. Do your homework and read about what your buying and don't trust the manufacturer, they are trying to sell it to you. Woofers should be light, efficient and have a good frequency range. Tweeters should be placed carefully and depending on what your musical taste is, the material will probably vary. I prefer silk dome type, they are warm and have great dispersion. They are not harsh and will not cause fatigue to the ears. Remember that by strategically placing an array of tweeters in a car, your shifting the focus and sound stage in a car. This is critical to imaging and realism. Also remember that you are in a car, you don't need a bunch of wattage to get quality. It's all about placement.

Sorry for rambling, I hope it helps you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
thank you for the advice, it does help me with this greatly. i did not think about the imaging much over stock placement but i will now as well as the amount of wattage. thanks again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
There's a lot of good advice in this thread. I never have had the cash available to do everything I wanted to at once, so it almost always goes this way:

1. Front door and dash speakers replaced, dynamat added everywhere that's accessible when they are put in. This is probably the most improvement for the buck.
2. Rear speakers done, with more dynamat added. Depending on the car or truck, this seems to make either a huge difference, or almost none at all. On my 2003 Ram, it was huge. On most other vehicles, nope.
3. More power. In my Ram, it was just a little ragged when I had it turned up to my preferred level when I was at highway speed. I had an old, but decent amp I already had to run the rear speakers, and it was a good move. When I had the sub added, I had more than enough decent power to run everything else.
4. Head unit. Usually only if the original dies or has issues, with one real exception. On my 2000 GMC Sierra, this was number one, I changed it after less than a month. I've never heard such a bad sounding head unit in my life. Just horrible. Ad no, nothing was wrong with it, a friend's truck sounded just as bad as mine did. GM should be ashamed to have put in such a piece of junk. I bought one of the first MP3 head units for a really cheap price, and even though it had issues playing MP3 disks sometimes, it was a great move as even with the stock junk speakers, it sounded tremendously better.

One thing I will add is in general, most of the car audio installers I've dealt with want to add way too many speakers, tweeters to be exact. I still, even though I'll soon be able to get the senior discount, have excellent hearing, and some cars just have too hot of a high end. I argued with the guy who put the setup into my old Grand Cherokee, he wanted to add 4 tweeters on top of the ones being replaced, and I couldn't see the point in it. I didn't let him change my mind and I was very happy with the result. It was smooth and not harsh. He had to admit it did sound very good, but he thought it was a little too "laid back". I will take laid back over listening fatigue inducing "detail" any time. I have bought and sold many home speakers due to fatigue. I learned a long time ago that smooth is way better than "sparkle" in the long term.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,572 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
There's a lot of good advice in this thread. I never have had the cash available to do everything I wanted to at once, so it almost always goes this way:

1. Front door and dash speakers replaced, dynamat added everywhere that's accessible when they are put in. This is probably the most improvement for the buck.
2. Rear speakers done, with more dynamat added. Depending on the car or truck, this seems to make either a huge difference, or almost none at all. On my 2003 Ram, it was huge. On most other vehicles, nope.
3. More power. In my Ram, it was just a little ragged when I had it turned up to my preferred level when I was at highway speed. I had an old, but decent amp I already had to run the rear speakers, and it was a good move. When I had the sub added, I had more than enough decent power to run everything else.
4. Head unit. Usually only if the original dies or has issues, with one real exception. On my 2000 GMC Sierra, this was number one, I changed it after less than a month. I've never heard such a bad sounding head unit in my life. Just horrible. Ad no, nothing was wrong with it, a friend's truck sounded just as bad as mine did. GM should be ashamed to have put in such a piece of junk. I bought one of the first MP3 head units for a really cheap price, and even though it had issues playing MP3 disks sometimes, it was a great move as even with the stock junk speakers, it sounded tremendously better.

One thing I will add is in general, most of the car audio installers I've dealt with want to add way too many speakers, tweeters to be exact. I still, even though I'll soon be able to get the senior discount, have excellent hearing, and some cars just have too hot of a high end. I argued with the guy who put the setup into my old Grand Cherokee, he wanted to add 4 tweeters on top of the ones being replaced, and I couldn't see the point in it. I didn't let him change my mind and I was very happy with the result. It was smooth and not harsh. He had to admit it did sound very good, but he thought it was a little too "laid back". I will take laid back over listening fatigue inducing "detail" any time. I have bought and sold many home speakers due to fatigue. I learned a long time ago that smooth is way better than "sparkle" in the long term.
I agree with everything you said.. :thumbsup:

Especially this..

I will take laid back over listening fatigue inducing "detail" any time. I have bought and sold many home speakers due to fatigue. I learned a long time ago that smooth is way better than "sparkle" in the long term.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
Juve it's nice to see someone on a car site that isn't all about 100000000 watts and how many subs they can throw in and call it a system. We just picked up a challenger last night. And hope within the next year or two build a sound quality system to start competing with again. To me the challenger looks like it should make for a good vehicle for great sound.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
So after having my car for about a year I got the bug to upgrade the factory audio system. I've been an audio enthusiast for many years and own high end separates for my HT at home. I have dabbled in car audio but not to any audiophile level. When I made this decision I weighed a few options the most important of which was two.

  1. Trying to keep the car as factory looking as possible
  2. Upgrading the system with sound and installation quality in mind
After some research on local installers and toying with the idea to do this myself, I decided on a local installer. The final product looks like this;

  • Center channel - Two 1" audiophile silk dome tweeters cross fired upward
  • Left/Right Channel - 1" Single silk dome tweeters within a sealed enclosure
  • Kick panels - Single 2" silk dome tweeters
  • Doors - 6.5" mid bass carbon fiber drivers
  • Package tray - 6.5" high efficiency coaxial drivers
  • Trunk - 10" carbon fiber driver (fitted in the factory plastic box deadened with Dynamat and filled with fiber filler)
Would you have the make and model for the various speakers? Any ideas of where to buy in-dash enclosures for a 2" driver?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,572 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Would you have the make and model for the various speakers? Any ideas of where to buy in-dash enclosures for a 2" driver?
I'll PM you the info on the install and you can call my installer. He'll be more then happy to give you all the info you need. I had a fellow Challenger owner on this forum contact him after a listen to my system and he stunned at the quality a fidelity of the system. You really don't need enclosures, he placed a 2" sealed full range audiophile tweeter system in the dash. One on each side and two in the center position. All transducers are manufactured by CDT Audio, they make a variety of quality drivers for all budgets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Juve996- Could you PM me the info too? Thanks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
542 Posts
curious on who the installer is also?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,572 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
PM sent to you..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
431 Posts
I'll PM you the info on the install and you can call my installer. He'll be more then happy to give you all the info you need. I had a fellow Challenger owner on this forum contact him after a listen to my system and he stunned at the quality a fidelity of the system. You really don't need enclosures, he placed a 2" sealed full range audiophile tweeter system in the dash. One on each side and two in the center position. All transducers are manufactured by CDT Audio, they make a variety of quality drivers for all budgets.

I am also interested in the info on the install and the installer
Thanks ahead
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Top