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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Another great odd new problem....


Seems that maybe my tires lost balance? I would blame the brakes but it only happens at speed. First thought it felt like warped rotors, but they don’t feel wavy. When im cruising about 70-75mph and lightly get on the brakes, 1 out of 3 times the steering will shudder pretty bad but once under 60 it stops.

Getting the tires flipped and balance soon, if that doesn’t take care or it what else would be a likely culprit?
 

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I’d stick with your original gut feeling. If the tires were out of balance I’d expect the vibration when you’re moving with or without the brakes. The shudder occurs when you apply the brakes....that’s the first place to look.
 

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Have the same shudder when I really get on the brakes at high speeds...definitely rotors because it happens with my OEM wheels/tires and my aftermarket wheels/tires.
 

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Another great odd new problem....


Seems that maybe my tires lost balance? I would blame the brakes but it only happens at speed. First thought it felt like warped rotors, but they don’t feel wavy. When im cruising about 70-75mph and lightly get on the brakes, 1 out of 3 times the steering will shudder pretty bad but once under 60 it stops.

Getting the tires flipped and balance soon, if that doesn’t take care or it what else would be a likely culprit?
Wide high performance tires can go out of balance as they wear.

My experience with other cars is the out of balance is not severe more annoying than anything but when I had to replace the rear tires at 20K miles often I'd have the front tires balanced to avoid a mild tire imbalance vibration.

The vibration was present even when not braking.

Another possible cause and this too was my experience is one or more (probably two at least) rotors have suffered from uneven pad material deposition. This happened to one of my cars -- a VW Golf TDi -- when I washed the car -- this at home -- and left it parked on the driveway a while (a night/day I think) and drove my other car. Then when I went to drive the VW the brakes were lightly "frozen" from rust. The brakes freed up with a "pop" and I drove away. I didn't use the brakes any until a mile or two down the road I had to slam on the brakes to avoid a car that ran a stop sign. I brought the car to a full stop and kept the pedal applied while I called the other driver every name in the book. (And I have a big book...)

Afterwards I noticed when I came to a stop -- most of the time -- there was a light pulsing. To address this would have required resurfacing the brake rotors or replacing the rotors. This was not covered by the car's bumper to bumper warranty. But what I found was with a bit more aggressive braking -- nothing really extreme -- the pulsing was gone. So that's how I drove the car (and my Boxster and my other cars since then, too). When I sold the VW years later with nearly 150K miles on it the brakes were original. 'course, the woman buyer by lightly braking during the test drive noticed the pulsing so I gave her a $200 discount towards new brakes.

In this case the pulsing/vibration was only present when braking and when lightly braking. It is entirely possible the uneven pad material deposition could have been worse and the pulsing present even under more aggressive braking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ill check the brakes again when i have the wheels off, but i installed my wilwoods with new pads and rotors and were bedded great. There is a slight “warbling” as im cruising maintaining speed as well, but the shuddering is only on slow down. At no point does the brake pedal vibrate, just the steering. At first it made me think is was the rough freeway floor combined with my stiff suspension, however symptoms persists on smooth pavement. Again, only 1 out of 3 times....


Another weekend teardown, here we go
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Wide high performance tires can go out of balance as they wear.

My experience with other cars is the out of balance is not severe more annoying than anything but when I had to replace the rear tires at 20K miles often I'd have the front tires balanced to avoid a mild tire imbalance vibration.

The vibration was present even when not braking.

Another possible cause and this too was my experience is one or more (probably two at least) rotors have suffered from uneven pad material deposition. This happened to one of my cars -- a VW Golf TDi -- when I washed the car -- this at home -- and left it parked on the driveway a while (a night/day I think) and drove my other car. Then when I went to drive the VW the brakes were lightly "frozen" from rust. The brakes freed up with a "pop" and I drove away. I didn't use the brakes any until a mile or two down the road I had to slam on the brakes to avoid a car that ran a stop sign. I brought the car to a full stop and kept the pedal applied while I called the other driver every name in the book. (And I have a big book...)

Afterwards I noticed when I came to a stop -- most of the time -- there was a light pulsing. To address this would have required resurfacing the brake rotors or replacing the rotors. This was not covered by the car's bumper to bumper warranty. But what I found was with a bit more aggressive braking -- nothing really extreme -- the pulsing was gone. So that's how I drove the car (and my Boxster and my other cars since then, too). When I sold the VW years later with nearly 150K miles on it the brakes were original. 'course, the woman buyer by lightly braking during the test drive noticed the pulsing so I gave her a $200 discount towards new brakes.

In this case the pulsing/vibration was only present when braking and when lightly braking. It is entirely possible the uneven pad material deposition could have been worse and the pulsing present even under more aggressive braking.
Also, in light of what you mentioned about the tires, my -2 camber has already worn out the corners but left the centers, so this may be very possible as well
 

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You have a dial indicator to check for runnout? If you don't feel any pulsing in the brake pedal it could be tires I guess.
 

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Another thing that a lot of folks overlook and should check from time to time is your tire pressure. I check mine once a month and make sure they’re dead on where they should be. Improper tire PSI can cause abnormal wear as you all know. And may have contributed a little bit to this situation from the OP
 

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BTW there was a TSB for the tension strut bushing for 2015-2017 models (02-001-17 REV. A). Symptom was noise during turns but not sure if could also impact high speed steering?
 

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BTW there was a TSB for the tension strut bushing for 2015-2017 models (02-001-17 REV. A). Symptom was noise during turns but not sure if could also impact high speed steering?
Any details on this, I am trying to find it now. For a co-workers 2017 300 S issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Any time I've had steering-wheel vibration when braking at high speeds, it was always "warped" rotors.
Yea its seeming more and more like this. Even though i want to rule out the braking system because everything was put brand new during the summer, ive heard these bp-20 pads are quite agressive. Even Todd and TCE told me it wouldnt be hard to burn through some rotors with these pads in a single track day. I haven’t tracked her yet, but definitely driven hard for the past few months.
 

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Any details on this, I am trying to find it now. For a co-workers 2017 300 S issue.
So normally I post such information but I have been warned that FCA might crack down on posting their copyrighted material. However, you can find TSBs on the chilton website.
 

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Also, in light of what you mentioned about the tires, my -2 camber has already worn out the corners but left the centers, so this may be very possible as well
Tires could certainly explain the behavior.

Thinking back to when I have experienced symptoms that appear only intermittently they have been due to (almost always) worn tires. It has been a while since I have had tires wear at the edges. (When they did it was a toe problem not a camber problem.) But just worn front or rear tires -- worn evenly across the tread face -- could produce some pretty odd behavior. More than once I have exited the freeway to pull in some place to check for a low tire (this with cars that were not fitted with TPMS system). The car was wiggling around so I was sure a tire if not flat was quite low. Not low. Just very worn -- but still with legal tread depth (if only barely).

There was an exception. In my Turbo I got into an impromptu "race" with a motorcycle. Came time to shut 'er down and I applied the brakes pretty hard. The car pulled to the left severely. This was completely out of character. I left the freeway ASAP and at a gas station found a rear tire low. Brought the tire pressure up to spec and headed to the nearby Porsche dealer to get this addressed. Ended up having to replace all 4 tires before my road trip could resume.

And the tire noise...Even in my Hellcat the other day noticed an ungodly amount of tire noise. Then the road surface changed and the noise was gone. And the rear tires on the Hellcat have just 2K miles on them and are like new (believe it or not). The front tires are original and have 16K+ miles and are probably close to being half worn out.

At one point before I had to replace the Hellcat rear tires due to a puncture of the driver side tire the noise at times had me convinced the diff was bad. I mean the noise at speed was horrible. Proved to be tire noise. I never thought I'd own another car with tire noise worse than the tire noise the Porsche tires produced but the Hellcat has the Porsche cars beat in the tire noise department. And even the MINI JCW is a tire roaring monster. The culprit is the run flat tires fitted on the JCW. They were loud from Day 1.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
UPDATE

Turns out, i popped my driver side lower tension strut loose ? Tightened both sides down and the shuddering is gone

I rebuilt the front suspension about 20k miles ago, i triple checked and jumped on the wrench made sure they are tight this time
 

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I have had this issue in my '12 Charger-it turned out to be a bad brake pad/uneven rotor. It was with my OEM brakes,. got a brake job and problem disappeared. Under hard braking, it was fine, but there was a chatter with lighter braking due to movement of teh pad and uneven rotor contact. Mechanic thought that I had braked hard in my mountain driving commute to No Cal where there is a long grade that requires braking/downshifting to keep it under 90. Brakes overheat there and that probably contributed to teh problem or caused it.
 

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Years back my son and I went for some spirited driving (not racing) on a highway when both of my Challengers were still fairly new. He took my '10 R/T Classic while I drove my '11 SRT. Since I had the obvious advantage, and was a much more experienced driver, I let him stay ahead and I trailed behind him to let him get the feel of the R/T. I had never used the brakes on either car really hard before, so when my son came flying up on traffic, he slammed on the brakes way later than I ever would have.
The end result was, ever since that hard brake application, I felt a noticeable shudder/pulsing in the front end of the R/T every time I applied the brakes at speed. Since I'd read numerous posts here about how poor the quality of the R/T's rotors, I upgraded them, as well as the pads from original equipment. Problem solved. I never had an issue after that.
I'm not sure whether or not Dodge has improved their brakes substantially since then, but that was hands down the source of my problem.
 
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