Dodge Challenger Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Let's say a 6.1L engine and transmission was submerged in floodwater for ~3 days. Would the motor and trans be repairable or would it be waaaay too much hassle? What would you consider paying for a motor like that with approx. 50k miles on it.


I should mention mine is fine, I live in Alabama. I'm asking because I've been looking at motors for a project this winter and if I can pick up a fixable 6.1L for a good price I might do it. Love this engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Let's say a 6.1L engine and transmission was submerged in floodwater for ~3 days. Would the motor and trans be repairable or would it be waaaay too much hassle? What would you consider paying for a motor like that with approx. 50k miles on it.


I should mention mine is fine, I live in Alabama. I'm asking because I've been looking at motors for a project this winter and if I can pick up a fixable 6.1L for a good price I might do it. Love this engine.
All the engine bearings would be shot and need replacing. Water in the cylinders would cause corrosion. Injectors would need replacing. Every piece of electronics is ruined and needs to be replaced. Then there is all the mud, dirt, crap and crud in the block that would never been cleaned right. And no telling what would flow back up through the exhaust into the cylinders. Tranny would have water in it from entering down the filler tube / dip stick. I would rather find something that was rear ended and totaled so the engine was in better shape. If want to take a chance and pick up a Texas flood car, go for it and post your results. But that's just my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,350 Posts
Complete disassembly, inspection, and rebuild would be needed.


Myself, I wouldn't take it for free
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,649 Posts
with all the electronics in the transmissions I would not hassle with that. The engine block and head castings can be hot tanked, bored, honed, align-bored, etc. but at what expense? If you pick up a motor for say 100 bucks and have to sink a few grand in machine work, and all new internals, valves, springs, crank, cam bearings, is it worth it? You would have about as much as a new crate motor.
I have to agree with Steven, look for places that sell complete drive trains on pallets. One comes to mind but I do not think they are a vendor here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
Theoretically if you knew your car was going to be in such an event could you sort of water proof it...for example, condoms on the tailpipes, dipstick capped off, air intakes sealed. This is all theoretical of course...how much would be needed and could it be done?

As far as electronics go, if you disconnected the battery wouldn't it be ok in the aftermath?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,448 Posts
The part that no one considers is that it is not just water getting into these cars, its mud, silt, sewage, and possibly even chemicals. Plain clean water and you might consider saving a motor if its cheap enough, but these flood vehicles are suitable to be destroyed in the next Marvel movie and not much more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
All depends on what kind of water, If it is fresh water I have seen motors saved as long as the motor was not started, Salt water no motors gone!!! I had a shop truck flood to the top of the hood. Drained the water put new oil in it handed turned it then pumped oil pressure it up with a drill. Changed the oil and filter twice more and that truck went another 100K miles no problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,350 Posts
Too many unknowns about these types of engines.


If they were pushed in gear, or tried to start, hydrolocking will bend valves and rods, or worse.


These engines are for "yard art" IMO
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
15,357 Posts
Theoretically if you knew your car was going to be in such an event could you sort of water proof it...for example, condoms on the tailpipes, dipstick capped off, air intakes sealed. This is all theoretical of course...how much would be needed and could it be done?

As far as electronics go, if you disconnected the battery wouldn't it be ok in the aftermath?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The modules weren't designed for submersion in water. There would be corrosion and with silt and any other contaminants, all this stuff is scrap.
 

·
Registered
2014 SRT Core
Joined
·
9,218 Posts
Years ago a friend of mine picked up a Mustang that was a flood car for cheap, he's a mechanic and did all the work himself, tore it down (the entire car) cleaned everything up and said it made a great car for his wife at a great price. That said, I think I'd pass and go with (as mentioned above) a junk yard motor that is in good shape or pick up a new crate motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I think it matters how much the engine was submerged. If say just the oil pan got wet, then perfect, nothing will be wrong. If say the motor was completely submerged over the top of the intake manifold then I would drain the oil, look for the tel-tale milky oil/water mixture. If that checks out then I would pull every spark plug and put a bore scope down every hole. Look for any liquid (water or otherwise) in the cylinders. A normal cylinder will look black with carbon and bone dry. Also pay attention to the spark plug tips as you pull them. That could also give you an idea of the condition of the motor, even if it wasn't flooded.


It also matters if the motor was ever ran while it was submerged, i.e. did someone drive into a flooded area, or did someone try to start the motor while it was submerged. If either of these 2 conditions were done then the motor needs a complete rebuild. If you were planning on building the motor anyway then what's the harm?




Another thing I would like to point out that seems to be a common myth I keep hearing. ***Water can not get into the engine from the tail pipe*** Lets break this down to explain.


There are 1 of 2 states the motor will be in if it ever sees water at the tail pipe; running and not running. Lets start with running.


When the engine is running it is constantly sending the leftover remnants of the combustion process (air) down the tail pipe. There is always positive pressure in the pipe. (Before any internet know-it-alls chime in, yes the air comes down the pipe in pulses but the pulses are too close and too frequent to matter in this context) Air can not back flow into the exhaust because the air is constantly holding it back. The effect is the same as a child that blows bubbles through a straw into his or her chocolate milk. The child's breath is the exhaust gasses. The straw is the exhaust pipe. The chocolate milk is the water.


Any questions? Good, lets move on.


Ok, so how about if the engine was off the entire time the tail pipe was under water? If the engine is off then there are not any expelled gasses to prevent the water from traveling into the motor. Glad you asked.... Think of the exhaust system from tail pipe to cylinder as a cup or glass that you are hand washing in the sink. A cup essentially is a hollow cylinder with one end closed off. Same applies to this scenario. Lets say for instance you take the cup in the sink and you position it vertically with the open end on the bottom and the closed end on top. Next, without rotating the cup push it down into the water. The result is an air pocket forms and the positive air pressure holds back the water from fully entering the cup. Next lets modify the experiment. Lets repeat the experiment but instead of the cup being vertical lets rotate it 45 degrees. Same result, an air pocket forms preventing the water from fully entering the cup. However more water is allowed in the cup. You could repeat this experiment over and over at different angles and you would see that the more the cup is rotated the more water is allowed in the cup, but you would also see that an air pocket forms every time. Even at an 89 degree angle (cup is 1 degree from parallel to the water) you would see an air pocket form. It's not until the cup is completely parallel to the water's surface that the air pocket does not form. The air pocket is important, that is what prevents water from entering the cylinders and ultimately protects your motor.


Now there is one real world variable to consider that will negate everything I said about the engine off scenario. That is exhaust leaks. The older a vehicle gets, the greater the likelihood of exhaust leaks. Lets say for instance you have an exhaust leak at the top of the manifold gasket. That pretty much is the highest point in the exhaust system and because of that will allow water all the way up to that point. The good news is you have time. Depending on the severity of the leak will dictate how fast the water will travel to that point. Similar to air leaking from a balloon or air leaking from a tire.

Some other things to consider: valves, and the angle of the exhaust ports on the cylinder head. All 8 cylinders will be at various stages of the 4 stroke combustion process. Some valves will be closed and some valves will be open; either fully or partially. It's only the cylinders with the open valves that we need to worry about. Next, the angle of the exhaust ports on a Gen III Hemi are pointed down at roughly a 45 degree angle. If you remember from the cup experiment, when the cup was at a 45 degree angle it still let some water in but it also still formed an air pocket. The key is if the exhaust port is long enough so that when the air pocket forms, the water line is still low enough that the water does not spill over into the open cylinder.


Any Questions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,350 Posts
That all sounds great, but there's only one little issue............who's going to tell you what the scenario was for that engine?


The seller? They probably don't know either. or don't want to tell the truth. A lot of bad engines get into the parts system after every flood, because there's a lot of shady folks trying to make some bucks on junk.


No question here, just stay away from buying one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
If submerged in fresh water, I would think a complete rebuild from the engine block on up would be in order. The engine block should be fine as long as it didn't crack. I wouldn't mess with anything that has been submerged in salt water though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
If submerged in fresh water, I would think a complete rebuild from the engine block on up would be in order. The engine block should be fine as long as it didn't crack. I wouldn't mess with anything that has been submerged in salt water though.
what are your concerns with salt water? Salt water causes rust, which can be cleaned and/or machined off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
what are your concerns with salt water? Salt water causes rust, which can be cleaned and/or machined off.
Salt water is much more corrosive and harder to clean. I would imagine a hot oil soak with agitation would be needed for a couple days and that's not a guarantee that all the salt would be removed. Any crevice, crack, or pit would hold that salt and it would eat the engine block over time. Fresh water does have minerals in it that may cause dissimilar metal corrosion, but salt in salt water far exceeds the amount of minerals suspended in fresh water. Consider also that our engine blocks are steel and the most common suspended mineral in freshwater is iron. The dissimilar metal corrosion would be minimal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
The main reason I brought the topic up of prepping a car for damage is because of Irma. Sometimes taking your Challenger is the least viable option for evacuating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
The ships in the navy sit in salt water all the time. The 4 years I was on salt water we never had a problem. Tearing apart and rebuilding one would be o.k. if purchased at a reasonable price.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
786 Posts
The ships in the navy sit in salt water all the time. The 4 years I was on salt water we never had a problem. Tearing apart and rebuilding one would be o.k. if purchased at a reasonable price.

Every ship's hull I was aboard was epoxy painted, sealed from water intrusion, electrical bonded, and had sacrificial zinc anodes near the screws, the rudders, sonars, etc.

Nothing on the Challenger is built to that standard.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top