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Fun fact, batteries store energy, energy usually turns into heat, heat causes things to combust.

Those things are faster than most sport cars, why would you ever think it's a good idea to hand the keys to stupid hormonal teens.

Is there something about being filthy rich that causes people to lose their common sense?
 

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Emergency service personnel have had to take specialized training to deal with electric vehicle crashes due to new kinds of dangers with them.
 

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Sad! Based on the article 50-60mph (not confirmed) so it's scary if it just burst into flames at that speed compared to a gas powered engine. I've see plenty of cars hit walls at higher speeds and some wrapped around a tree and didn't burst into flames like that. I guess more info to come. Again sad for all that died.
 

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How on earth does an electric car with no combustible fuel in a tank, like a real car, burst into flames in a collision? You expect this as a possibility with a tank full of gasoline, but not with a car full of batteries. Maybe the Tesla is the next Pinto?


http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/05/09/tesla-crash-kills-2-florida-high-school-seniors-ntsb-investigating.htmlHow
No hydrocarbon fuel in the car, but the battery contains a large amount of lithium. In a Model S there is 63 kg of lithium in a 70 kWh battery pack. Besides the lithium there is cobalt, nickel, and aluminum.

Lithium is highly reactive and flammable and in the lab samples are stored submerged in a fluid, mineral oil.

In a severe accident if the battery case is breached and the lithium exposed to air the lithium could catch fire.

Except for the sad news of the death of 2 of the 3 occupants and the injuries of the 3rd who I believe was thrown clear of the vehicle, I don't really see anything to be concerned. Just like one shouldn't smash an ICE vehicle against an unyielding wall likewise one shouldn't smash a battery powered electric vehicle against an unyielding wall. Bad things are almost certainly going to happen in either case.
 

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Fun fact, batteries store energy, energy usually turns into heat, heat causes things to combust.

Those things are faster than most sport cars, why would you ever think it's a good idea to hand the keys to stupid hormonal teens.

Is there something about being filthy rich that causes people to lose their common sense?
Yes.....there is that!

Thing is though.....electric is coming and fast too. They are all faster than ICE powered cars of similar cost. A model 3 isn't stupid expansive, compares well to just about any small SUV and while it's not MODEL S fast......it is V8 Mustang, Camaro or Challenger fast......too much for DUMB ASS teens.

Electric will be AMAZING......but even more than in the past it's going to demand MORE respect from teen drivers than cars ever did in our day.

The world pokes fun in an insurance commercial at teens and their inability to change a flat tire today vs the teens who could in the past.......you gotta wonder how this will work out when electric is DOMINANT and has dramatically lowered 0-60MPH times.
 

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Yes.....there is that!

Thing is though.....electric is coming and fast too. They are all faster than ICE powered cars of similar cost. A model 3 isn't stupid expansive, compares well to just about any small SUV and while it's not MODEL S fast......it is V8 Mustang, Camaro or Challenger fast......too much for DUMB ASS teens.

Electric will be AMAZING......but even more than in the past it's going to demand MORE respect from teen drivers than cars ever did in our day.

The world pokes fun in an insurance commercial at teens and their inability to change a flat tire today vs the teens who could in the past.......you gotta wonder how this will work out when electric is DOMINANT and has dramatically lowered 0-60MPH times.
Dominant? I doubt it.

What about a long road trip? I can drive several hundred miles on a tank of gasoline, pull in to a station and in 5 minutes or so have enough fuel to drive another couple of hundred miles. I've done this a number of times. (It really sets the alarms off with my credit card company when I use the card o fill up at 3 different stations in 3 different states all in the same day.)

Electric vehicles will seriously impact the vacation/holiday behavior of the masses. Theme parks, national/state parks, etc., will see a big drop off in attendance.

And where I live -- and apartment complex -- there is no way to charge an electric vehicle. The cost to add any charging stations will be expensive and this cost will be spread over all the residents not just the handful that might buy an electric vehicle. No way I'm paying more per month just so one or two residents can have an electric vehicle. (I'm not happy paying "my share" of a pool I don't use.)

Then consider the uncountable number of apartment complexes, condos, townhouses, even private homes, that don't have a charging station.

And businesses. Will businesses expect to install a number of charging stations for their employees, and customers and visitors?

Dominant? I seriously doubt it.
 

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Dominant? I doubt it.

What about a long road trip? I can drive several hundred miles on a tank of gasoline, pull in to a station and in 5 minutes or so have enough fuel to drive another couple of hundred miles. I've done this a number of times. (It really sets the alarms off with my credit card company when I use the card o fill up at 3 different stations in 3 different states all in the same day.)

Electric vehicles will seriously impact the vacation/holiday behavior of the masses. Theme parks, national/state parks, etc., will see a big drop off in attendance.

And where I live -- and apartment complex -- there is no way to charge an electric vehicle. The cost to add any charging stations will be expensive and this cost will be spread over all the residents not just the handful that might buy an electric vehicle. No way I'm paying more per month just so one or two residents can have an electric vehicle. (I'm not happy paying "my share" of a pool I don't use.)

Then consider the uncountable number of apartment complexes, condos, townhouses, even private homes, that don't have a charging station.

And businesses. Will businesses expect to install a number of charging stations for their employees, and customers and visitors?

Dominant? I seriously doubt it.
I've tried explaining this to him multiple times.

Even if all of that got subsidized, imagine the power requirements to charge all those EVs. Like my area needs black outs more often than every half a year.
 

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My excuse is I'm new here and I was not aware of what you have covered.

Blackouts? Oh yeah. When states mandate more and more energy must come from "renewable" resources -- and in CA can't seem to bring itself to add more hydroelectric power -- and the million acre solar panel farm is covered by clouds (or it is night) and the wind turbines are quiet because there is no wind and everybody arrives home and connects the electric vehicle to the grid then goes in the house and cranks the A/C thermostat down and turns on the big screen TV and the other half fires up the oven.
 

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The speed limit on that stretch of road is 30 MPH. I don't believe for one second that they were only going 50 to 60 MPH. They were also with another group of children who were in another car. No word yet as to whether or not they were racing.

There are a group of individuals whose mission it is to falsely claim that electric vehicles catch fire more often than gasoline cars when in collisions. Calculations show that gasoline cars catch fire after an accident at a rate of 1 per 20 million miles driven. Electric vehicle crashes that led to fire are 1 in 120 million miles driven. So gasoline cars are 6 times more likely to catch fire after an accident than electric cars. Seems like someone wants to send Tesla the way of Tucker.
 

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The speed limit on that stretch of road is 30 MPH. I don't believe for one second that they were only going 50 to 60 MPH. They were also with another group of children who were in another car. No word yet as to whether or not they were racing.

There are a group of individuals whose mission it is to falsely claim that electric vehicles catch fire more often than gasoline cars when in collisions. Calculations show that gasoline cars catch fire after an accident at a rate of 1 per 20 million miles driven. Electric vehicle crashes that led to fire are 1 in 120 million miles driven. So gasoline cars are 6 times more likely to catch fire after an accident than electric cars. Seems like someone wants to send Tesla the way of Tucker.

How much harder is it to put out a battery fire vs a gasoline fire?
 

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How much harder is it to put out a battery fire vs a gasoline fire?
I don't know that it matters. If you are trapped, severely injured or unconscious in a burning vehicle, lithium or gasoline, firefighters aren't going to get there in time to put out the fire before you succumb. Tesla battery packs are compartmentalized so a fire in one won't impact others. Any flames are supposed to be directed under the car through vents so as to not enter the passenger compartment. In a high speed crash like this, there's nothing that would keep the battery pack from being damaged to where flames enter the passenger compartment. Same goes for gasoline.
 

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When a Tesla driver was killed in an accident on 101 in Mountain View (he had autopilot on), the fire department had to wait for 2 Tesla engineers to come make sure the battery was safe. There was video of them picking up pieces and putting it in some liquid. The fire department spokesman that was interviewed said they didn't know if it was safe, as it was fairly new to them. A Guy
 

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How much harder is it to put out a battery fire vs a gasoline fire?
This is actually very hard. It is called cascading failure in the battery, each section is walled off from the others but the fire melts and fuses the sections together causing the next section to burst in to flames. The best interview on this subject is with Hammond after he crashed the 2 million dollar all electric hyper car. What they did not show you in that interview is the car burned for 7 days as the fire department put it out and a few hours later the next pack would explode and start the fire all over again. This is explained at the end of The Grand Tour with the episode of the car going over the cliff and some how missing the house at the bottom even though the house was in the middle of the cars tumbling path.

If you have not seen the interview its on Youtube:


Here is the article that talks about the time(5 days):

https://www.total-croatia-news.com/made-in-croatia/23852-the-grand-tour-season-two-episode-one-is-out-and-rimac-concept-one-is-on-flames

They call it "thermal runaway" in the article

Ron
 

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How much harder is it to put out a battery fire vs a gasoline fire?
It isn’t.
You can thank Bin Laden’s scattered corpse later for that-
Homeland security grants paid for a lot of upgrades that were due in the fire service, such as mixing tanks that are push button systems for class 1 and A foam additives to suppression streams.

And guess what? That was because of lightweight engine block designs that were magnesium alloy.
We’ve been dealing with this for a while. It isn’t a progressive agenda- it’s an innovative one.

Some of this is just nonsense. Like, my better half heating up the oven the comments.
Let’s get serious people- I’m a way better cook, and we are a Mopar home. There’s a gas grill and stove for a reason. So I can make delicious food for my amazing wife after dealing with the green bureaucracy all day.

Why do electric cars exist? To compete in a capitalist society... the same reason our cars exist.
If it causes heartburn, don’t buy it.

The crash looks like idiots being irresponsible in a car.
Tell me how that was different than people driving muscle cars in the 1960’s and 1970’s again?
First time I pulled some bodies out of a crashed car under similar circumstances, it wasn’t electric, and the results weren’t significantly different.

Please explain to me how anything but choice and a vehicle capable of going fast plays into this again?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
What's gonna cause me heartburn is the increased rate of blackouts.

How do I buy myself out of that bullshit on a 100 degree summer day?
You're right there. Our grid is taxed as it is. Plants that can't meet the emission restrictions are shutting down. Now Nuke plants can't compete with cheap natural gas, and they're shutting down. We need more power, and we're making less. Not to mention what happens when the bad-guys hack the grid and isolate parts of the country from their power source...or something as simple as and EMP blacking out an entire city.
 

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No hydrocarbon fuel in the car, but the battery contains a large amount of lithium. In a Model S there is 63 kg of lithium in a 70 kWh battery pack. Besides the lithium there is cobalt, nickel, and aluminum.

Lithium is highly reactive and flammable and in the lab samples are stored submerged in a fluid, mineral oil.

In a severe accident if the battery case is breached and the lithium exposed to air the lithium could catch fire.
To get an idea of the thermal runaway / chemical reaction there's videos of laptop / tablet or cell phone batteries - and these are ounces of Lithium-Ion batteries.

Have several pounds of these materials and its a difficult fire to extinguish. Often it keeps going until the materials themselves are consumed by the combustion process.
 
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