Dodge Challenger Forum banner

1 - 4 of 4 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Spring time is here and it's time for me to change the oil in my car again. I plan on road tracking it a few times this summer and am adding a larger Mishimoto radiator, PS cooler and oil cooler as the engine gets hot even without pushing it too hard.

Outside of the supercharger, everything else is currently stock 5.7L HEMI. I'm wondering if I should go with a synthetic 5W20 or 0W40 to work with our stock clearances at 240+ °F. racing and <220°F cruising.

This article about oil temperatures was a bit eye opening to me.
What Is The Optimum Engine Oil Temperature? - Hot Rod Network


Mobile 1 0W40 HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) 3.6
Redline 5W20 HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) 3.0 - from what I have read this meets W30 specs
Liqui Moly 5W20 HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) 2.6

I'm leaning towards Redline 5W20, anyone care to share any thoughts?
 

·
Registered
2020 Dodge Challenger Hellraisin Scat Pack
Joined
·
3,032 Posts
With the addition of a supercharger you have changed the engine dynamics and oil needs of the engine considerably. With a supercharger the concern is the increase in pressure the rod during the power stroke puts on the rod bearing. An oil is needed that can withstand the increase in load, not get squeezed out -- which suggests a higher viscosity oil is called for, one with a higher HTHS index.

OTOH, if (big IF) you have adequate engine cooling and oil cooling and oil temperatures remain within reason -- not getting very much above 212F at any time -- the factory recommended oil well, it may be ok.

While Redline 5w-20 oil may meet W30 spec its HTHS number 3.0 is low. On this alone I'd be reluctant to use it.

A modification that can help the oil protect the engine although I don't know if this is doable with your engine is to install a higher capacity oil pump, one that not only supplies more oil volume but at a higher pressure. This may require a change to the oil bypass valve to prevent the higher oil pressure from being bled off by the stock bypass valve.

What this does it this results in higher oil pressure which helps in some way better protect the bearings but also helps flow more oil through the bearings to remove the heat that the added pressure creates. This could be the added margin the factory oil needs to adequately protect the engine.

Have to mention though that even so I think you had better budget more frequent oil/filter services and it is even more important now that if you show up at the track that you do so with fresh oil in the engine.

I'm certainly no oil expert but I have to mention Mobil 1 0w-40 oil works very well in high performance engines including turbo-charged engines. I ran this oil for hundreds of thousands of miles in my 2002 Boxster and in my 2003 Porsche 996 Turbo with zero problems. While the oil is a "40" weight oil it flows like a thinner (so to speak) oil but has good HTHS number which withstands the load and heat.

But I'm reluctant to come right out and recommend you run this oil, or any oil other than the factory oil. I'm leaning towards just advising you to stay with the factory recommended oil but if there is a synthetic oil the factory recommends to consider switching to that oil provided its HTHS number is at least as high as but higher would better than the 5w-20 oil you have been using. Still you need to change the oil more often.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for responding! Definitely some food for thought. I'm not ready to drop the pan and add a new pump yet. My goal, as you stated, is to keep my engine around 100C with adding my oil cooler and larger radiator. It hovers around 104C cruising right now. Driving a friends 997.2 turbo over the weekend that car never went over 100C.

I just looked up the clearance's between a 5.7 eagle and 6.1 SRT engine, they are nearly exactly the same. after reviewing that, I think I'll use the 0w40 moving forward. Hopefully this helps someone else when making a similar decision.




------------
SPECIFICATIONS
Eagle Engine - 90° V-8 OHV
Metric / Standard
Displacement 5.7 Liters / 348 CID
Bore 99.5 mm / 3.92 in.
Stroke 90.9 mm / 3.58 in.
Compression Ratio 10.5:1
Max. Variation Between Cylinders 25%
Firing Order 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Lubrication Pressure Feed - Full Flow Filtration
Cooling System Liquid Cooled
Cylinder Block Cast Iron
Cylinder Head Aluminum
Crankshaft Nodular Iron
Camshaft Cast Iron
Pistons Aluminum Alloy
Connecting Rods Powdered Metal

CYLINDER BLOCK
Metric / Standard
Cylinder Bore Diameter 99.50 mm / 3.92 in.
Out of Round (MAX) 0.0076 mm / 0.0003 in.
Taper (MAX) 0.0127 mm / 0.0005 in.
Lifter Bore Diameter 21.45 - 21.425 mm / 0.8444 - 0.8435 in.

PISTONS
Metric / Standard
Clearance
Measured at 38.0 mm / 1.5 in. Below Deck 0.031 - 0.058 mm / 0.012 - 0.023 in.
Ring Groove Diameter
Top Groove 90.4 - 90.6 mm / 3.56 - 3.57 in.
Second Groove 88.4 - 88.7 mm / 3.48 - 3.49 in.
Weight 413 grams 14.56 oz
Piston Length 53.3 mm / 2.10 in.
Ring Groove Width
No. 1 1.23 - 1.26 mm / 0.048 - 0.0496 in
No. 2 1.23 - 1.25 mm / 0.048 - 0.0492 in.
No. 3 2.03 - 2.05 mm / 0.079 - 0.080 in.

PISTON PINS
Metric / Standard
Clearance In Piston 0.005 - 0.014 mm / 0.0001 - 0.0005 in.
Diameter 24.004 - 24.007 mm / 0.945 - 0.9451 in.
Length 62.99 - 63.21 mm / 2.47 - 2.48 in.

PISTON RINGS
Metric / Standard
Ring Gap
Top Compression Ring 0.40 - 0.55 mm / 0.015 - 0.021 in.
Second Compression Ring 0.24 - 0.51 mm / 0.009 - 0.020 in.
Oil Control Rails 0.15 - 0.66 mm / 0.0059 - 0.0259 in.
Side Clearance
Top Compression Ring 0.04 - 0.09 mm / 0.001 - 0.0035 in.
Second Compression Ring 0.04 - .08 mm / 0.001 - 0.0031 in.
Oil Control Rails 0.06 - 0.21 mm / 0.002 - 0.008 in.
Ring Width
Top Compression Ring 1.17 - 1.19 mm / 0.0460 - 0.0468 in.
Second Compression Ring 1.17 - 1.19 mm / 0.0460 - 0.0468 in.
Oil Control Rails 0.387 - 0.413 mm / 0.015 - 0.016 in.

CONNECTING RODS
Metric / Standard
Piston Pin Bore Diameter 24.014 - 24.024 mm / 0.9454 - 0.9458 in.
Side Clearance 0.10 - 0.35 mm / 0.003 - 0.0137 in.

CRANKSHAFT
Metric / Standard
Main Bearing Journal Diameter 64.988 - 65.012 mm / 2.5585 - 2.5595 in.
Bearing Clearance 0.023 - 0.051 mm / 0.0009 - 0.002 in.
Out of Round (MAX) 0.005 mm / 0.0002 in.
Taper (MAX) 0.003 mm / 0.0001 in.
End Play 0.052 - 0.282 mm / 0.002 - 0.011 in.
End Play (MAX) 0.282 mm / 0.011 in.
Connecting Rod Journal Diameter 53.992 - 54.008 mm / 2.126 in.
Bearing Clearance 0.020 - 0.060 mm / 0.0007 - 0.0023 in.
Out of Round (MAX) 0.005 mm / 0.0002 in.
Taper (MAX) 0.003 mm / 0.0001 in.

CAMSHAFT
Metric / Standard
Bearing Journal Diameter
No. 1 58.2 mm / 2.29 in.
No. 2 57.8 mm / 2.28 in.
No. 3 57.4 mm / 2.26 in.
No. 4 57.0 mm / 2.24 in.
No. 5 43.633 mm / 1.72 in.
Bearing To Journal Clearance Standard
No. 1 0.040 - 0.080 mm / .0015 - .003 in.
No. 2 0.050 -0.090 mm / 0.0019 - .0035 in.
No. 3 0.040 - 0.080 mm / .0015 - .003 in.
No. 4 0.050 - 0.090 mm / 0.0019 - .0035 in.
No. 5 0.040 - 0.080 mm / .0015 - .003 in.
Camshaft End Play .080 - 0.290mm / 0.0031 - 0.0114 in.

VALVE TIMING

Intake
Opens (BTDC) 28.2°
Closes (ATDC) 239.8°
Duration 268°
Exhaust
Opens (BTDC) 274.2°
Closes (ATDC) 15.8°
Duration 290°
Valve Overlap 44°

CYLINDER HEAD
Metric / Standard
Valve Seat Angle 44.5° - 45.0°
Valve Seat Runout (MAX) 0.05 mm / 0.0019 in.
Valve Seat Width (finish)
Intake 1.18 - 1.62 mm / .0638 in.
Exhaust 1.48 - 1.92 mm / 0.0583 - 0.0756 in.
Guide Bore Diameter (Std.) 7.975 - 8.00 mm / 0.3134 - 0.315 in.

HYDRAULIC TAPPETS
Metric / Standard
Body Diameter 21.387 - 21.405 mm / 0.8420 - 0.8427 in.
Clearance (to bore) 0.020 - 0.063 mm / 0.0008 - 0.0025 in.
Dry Lash 3.0 mm (at the valve) / 0.1181 in. (at the valve)

VALVES
Metric / Standard
Face Angle 45.0° - 45.5°
Head Diameter
Intake 50.67 - 50.93 mm / 1.99 - 2.01 in.
Exhaust 39.27 - 39.53 mm / 1.55 - 1.56 in.
Length (overall)
Intake 123.38 - 123.76 mm / 4.857 - 4.872 in.
Exhaust 120.475 - 120.855 mm / 4.743 - 4.758 in.
Stem Diameter
Intake 7.935 - 7.953 mm / 0.312 - 0.313 in.
Exhaust 7.932 - 7.950 mm / 0.312 - 0.313 in.
Stem - to - Guide Clearance
Intake 0.022 - 0.065 mm / 0.0008 - 0.0025 in.
Exhaust 0.025 - 0.065 mm / 0.0009 - 0.0025 in.
Valve Lift ( @ zero lash)
Intake 12.0 mm / 0.472 in.
Exhaust 11.70 mm / 0.460 in.

VALVE SPRING
Metric / Standard
Spring Force (valve closed) 435.0 N +/- 22.0 N @ 45 mm / 97.8 lbs +/- 5.0 lbs. @ 1.771 in.
Spring Force (valve open) 1077.0 N +/- 48.0 N @ 32.6 mm./ 242.0 lbs. +/- 11 lbs. @ 1.283 in.
Free Length (approx). 55.6 mm / 2.189 in.
Number of Coils 7.95
Wire Diameter 4.95 × 4.1 mm / 0.194 - 0.161 in.
Installed Height (spring seat to bottom of retainer) 46.0 mm / 1.81 in.

OIL PUMP
Metric / Standard
Clearance Over Rotors (MAX) 0.095 mm / 0.0038 in.
Outer Rotor to Pump Body Clearance (MAX) .235 mm / 0.009 in.
Tip Clearance Between Rotors (MAX) 0.150 mm / 0.006 in.

OIL PRESSURE
Metric / Standard
At Curb Idle Speed (MIN)* 25 kPa / 4 psi
@ 3000 rpm 170 - 758 kPa / 25 - 110 psi
* CAUTION: If pressure is zero at curb idle, DO NOT run engine.



------------------

6.1L ENGINE


GENERAL DESCRIPTION

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Engine Type 90° V-8 OHV
Displacement 6.1 Liters
370 (Cubic Inches)
Bore 103 mm (4.055 in.)
Stroke 90.9 mm (3.58 in.)
Compression Ratio 10.3:1
Firing Order 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Lubrication Pressure Feed - Full Flow Filtration
Cooling System Liquid Cooled - Forced Circulation
Cylinder Block Cast Iron
Cylinder Head Aluminum
Crankshaft Forged Steel
Camshaft Hollow Assembled Camshaft
Pistons Aluminum Alloy
Connecting Rods Powdered Metal
CYLINDER BLOCK

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Metric Standard
Cylinder Bore Diameter 103 mm 4.055 in.
Out of Round (MAX) 0.008 mm 0.0003 in.
Taper (MAX) 0.0127 mm 0.0005 in.
Lifter Bore Diameter 21.45 - 21.425 mm 0.8444 - 0.8435 in.
PISTONS

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Metric Standard
Clearance
Measured at 38.0 mm (1.5 in.) Below Deck 0.0245 - 0.0515 mm 0.00096 - 0.0020 in.

Ring Groove Diameter
Groove #1 93.1 - 93.4 mm 3.665 - 3.677 in.
Groove #2 91.6 - 91.8 mm 3.606 - 3.614 in.
Weight 435 grams 15.34 oz.
Piston Length 54.70 - 55.30 2.153 - 2.177 in.
Ring Groove Width
No. 1 1.51 - 1.54 mm 0.0594 - 0.0606 in
No. 2 1.51 - 1.53 mm 0.0594 - 0.0602 in.
No. 3 3.030 - 3.055 mm 0.1192 - 0.1202 in.
PISTON PINS

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Metric Standard
Clearance In Piston 0.006 - 0.015 mm 0.00023 - 0.00059 in.
Diameter 25.0 - 25.003 mm 0.9843 - 0.9844 in.
Length 64.785 - 65.215 mm 2.551 - 2.568 in.
PISTON RINGS

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Metric Standard
Ring Gap
Top Compression Ring 0.30 - 0.40 mm 0.0118 - 0.0157 in.
Second Compression Ring 0.35 - 0.60 mm 0.0137 - 0.0236 in.
Oil Control (Steel Rails) 0.20 - 0.71 mm 0.0079 - 0.028 in.
Side Clearance
Top Compression Ring .02 - .068 mm 0.0007 - 0.0026 in.
Second Compression Ring 0.02 - 0.058 mm 0.0007 - 0.0022 in.
Oil Ring (Steel Ring) 0.019 - 0.229 mm 0.0007 - 0.0091 in.
Ring Width
Top Compression Ring 1.472 - 1.490 mm 0.0579 - 0.0586 in.
Second Compression Ring 1.472 - 1.490 mm 0.0579 - 0.0586 in.
Oil Ring (Steel Rails) 0.447 - 0.473 mm 0.0175 - 0.0186 in.
CONNECTING RODS

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Metric Standard
Piston Pin Bore Diameter 23.955 - 23.975 mm 0.9431 - 0.9438 in.
Side Clearance 0.10 - 0.35 mm 0.003 - 0.0137 in.
CRANKSHAFT

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Metric Standard
Main Bearing Journal Diameter 64.988 - 65.012 mm 2.5585 - 2.5595 in.
Bearing Clearance 0.023 - 0.051 mm 0.0009 - 0.002 in.
Out of Round (MAX) 0.005 mm 0.0002 in.
Taper (MAX) 0.003 mm 0.0001 in.
End Play 0.052 - 0.282 mm 0.002 - 0.011 in.
End Play (MAX) 0.282 mm 0.011 in.
Connecting Rod Journal Diameter 53.992 - 54.008 mm 2.125 - 2.126 in.
Bearing Clearance 0.020 - 0.074 mm 0.0007 - 0.0029 in.
Out of Round (MAX) 0.005 mm 0.0002 in.
Taper (MAX) 0.003 mm 0.0001 in.
CAMSHAFT

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Metric Standard
Bearing Journal Diameter
No. 1 58.2 mm 2.29 in.
No. 2 57.8 mm 2.27 in.
No. 3 57.4 mm 2.26 in.
No. 4 57.0 mm 2.24 in.
No. 5 43.633 mm 1.72 in.
Bearing To Journal Clearance Standard
No. 1 0.040 - 0.080 mm 0.0015 - 0.003 in.
No. 2 0.050 -0.090 mm 0.0019 - 0.0035 in.
No. 3 0.040 - 0.080 mm 0.0015 - 0.003 in.
No. 4 0.050 - 0.090 mm 0.0019 - 0.0035 in.
No. 5 0.040 - 0.080 mm 0.0015 - 0.003 in.
Camshaft End Play .080 - 0.290 mm 0.0031 - 0.0114 in.
VALVE TIMING @ SAE 0.006”

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Intake
Opens (BTDC) 15.0°
Closes (ATDC) 268.0°
Duration 283.0°
Exhaust
Opens (BTDC) 251°
Closes (ATDC) 35°
Duration 286.0°
Valve Overlap 50°
CYLINDER HEAD

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Valve Seat Angle 44.5° - 45.0°
Valve Seat Runout (MAX) 0.05 mm (0.0019 in.)
Valve Seat Width (Finish)
Intake 1.18 - 1.62 mm
(0.0464 - 0.0637 in.)
Exhaust 1.48 - 1.92 mm
(0.0582 - 0.0755 in.)
Guide Bore Diameter (Std.) 7.975 - 8.00 mm
(0.313 - 0.314 in.)
HYDRAULIC TAPPETS

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Metric Standard
Body Diameter 21.387 - 21.405 mm 0.8420 - 0.8427 in.
Clearance (To Bore) 0.020 - 0.063 mm 0.0007 - 0.0024 in.
Dry Lash 3.0 mm (at the valve) 0.1181 in.
VALVES

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Face Angle
Intake 45.5° - 46.0°
Exhaust 45.0° - 45.5°
Head Diameter
Intake 52.67 - 52.93 mm
(2.07 - 2.08 in.)
Exhaust 40.37 - 40.63 mm
(1.57 - 1.60 in.)
Length (Overall From Gage Line)
Intake 124.38 - 124.76 mm
(4.897 - 4.912 in.)
Exhaust 122.47 - 122.85 mm
(4.822 - 4.837 in.)
Stem Diameter
Intake 7.734 - 7.954 mm
(0.312 - 0.313 in.)
Exhaust 7.930 - 7.950 mm
(0.312 - 0.313 in.)
Stem - to - Guide Clearance
Intake 0.021 - 0.066 mm
(0.0008 - 0.0025 in.)
Exhaust 0.025 - 0.070 mm
(0.0010 - 0.0028 in.)
Valve Lift ( @ Zero Lash)
Intake 14.5 mm (0.571 in.)
Exhaust 14.0 mm (0.551 in.)
VALVE SPRING

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Spring Force (Valve Closed)
Intake 445.0 N +/- 22.0 N @ 47.5 mm
(99.0 lbs +/- 4.0 - 9.0 lbs. @ 1.870 in.)
Exhaust 445.0 N +/- 22.0 N @ 45 mm
(99.0 lbs +/- 4.0 - 9.0 lbs. @ 1.772 in.)
Spring Force (Valve Open)
Intake 1450.0 N +/- 68.0 N @ 33.0 mm
(325.5 lbs. +/- 15.3 lbs. @ 1.3 in. )
Exhaust 1450.0 N +/- 68.0 N @ 31.0 mm
(325.5 lbs. +/- 15.3 lbs. @ 1.22 in. )
Free Length (approx)
Intake 54.2 mm (2.133 in.)
Exhaust 51.4 mm (2.023 in.)
Number of Coils
Intake 7.35
Exhaust 7.0
Wire Diameter
Intake and Exhaust 5.65 × 4.51 mm
(0.222 - 0.178 in.)
Installed Height (Spring Seat to Bottom of Retainer)
Intake 47.5 mm (1.870 in.)
Exhaust 45.0 mm (1.772 in.)
OIL PUMP

DESCRIPTION

SPECIFICATION

Clearance Over Rotors (MAX) 0.095 mm (0.0038 in.)
Outer Rotor to Pump Body Clearance (MAX) 0.235 mm (0.009 in.)
Tip Clearance Between Rotors (MAX) 0.150 mm (0.006 in.)
OIL PRESSURE

SPECIFICATION

SPECIFICATION

At Curb Idle Speed (MIN)* 25 kPa (4 psi)
@ 3000 rpm 170 - 758 kPa (25 - 110 psi)
* CAUTION: If pressure is zero at curb idle, DO NOT run engine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Once you settle on an oil, you may also want to give the SRT oil filter some thought. Part # 05038041AA

Here's some information I've gleaned.
Cherokee SRT8 Forum - View Single Post - SRT Live Webchat - April 15th, 2014 5PM Eastern

SRT engineer round table Q&A April 15, 2014

Q. A lot of owners are starting to use the SRT Viper oil filter on their 5.7, 6.1 and 6.4 engines (SRT filter # 05038041AA). Is there any advantage (or disadvantage) in using this filter vs. the standard Mopar filter?

A. The SRT Viper filter flows better than the stock Purolator filter and requires a higher differential pressure to bypass the filter at cold starts and high demand (Meaning the SRT Viper filter bypass stays closed more often and filters more oil). Both filters will work on the 5.7/6.1/6.4.
________________

http://www.drivesrt.com/news/2013/1...capability-and-increased-fuel-efficiency.html

When an SRT owner takes their vehicle to a driving event with the specific intent of exploring the far reaches of the performance envelope, they can rest assured that the 6.4-liter HEMI engine will sustain proper oil-pressures in extreme cornering conditions. For track-day use, SRT engineers suggest using the SRT oil filter (part number 05038041AA). Originally designed for Viper applications, it works great with all Chrysler V8 engines. The SRT filter features a higher differential pressure bypass valve and reduced pressure loss across the filter element
____________

"From the SRT Engineers:
The SRT oil filter for all the past engines and the new 22mm inlet SRT filter for the Gen 4 and beyond engines share the same characteristics. We worked with many of the filter suppliers to get the best features. Some fell out for various performance reasons but we ended up developing the current SRT filters with one of the mainstream manufacturers (it is different than their commercial offerings - or at least was when we developed it). The high flow oil pumps in our large engines (Viper is the biggest) can overpower the internal relief valve. When this valve opens it allows some of the high pressure dirty oil to bypass the filter element in order to keep the filter from being damaged. The SRT filters do indeed have a higher differential bypass valve to make sure all the oil delivered to your powerplant is clean. The housing is slightly thicker than many of the brands out there to handle the pressure but is not the thickest. The real thick ones failed our development testing (fractured at the crimped flange). The media used was one of the latest synthetics that allowed very fine filtration, more debris capacity, and much lower restriction than our standard Mopar filter (and just about every other filter out there).
 

Attachments

1 - 4 of 4 Posts
Top