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Registered
2016
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97 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Going to get a throttle Body I think.
Was contemplating the Speedlogix 84mm ported one.
I'm in CA so I'm a bit concerned about it being CARB leagal.
Although I guess I can just swap it out with the stock one when I have to get it smogged in 4 years.

Not planning on getting a tune or anything else.
Will going with a larger throtlle body hurt the bottom end or?

Thanks for any advice!
 

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2016
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Discussion Starter #7
OK, Pulled the trigger on a Modern Muscle Extreme 87mm Throttle Body.
Am I starting down that slipperey slope of mods?
Ahhhh......
 

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2014 100th Annivesary R/T
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Are you taking the car to the Drag Strip and racing regularly?
I mean yes you will see a little better response to throttle but the only real benefit for going to a larger TB is for Wide Open Throttle. Daily driving in traffic it has zero affect. And with out tuning your not going to see any difference.

Just my two cents.
-Kenny
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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Nuke's Q&A with another (imaginary) Nuke

The bigger TB is going to increase performance because it will help make a bigger bang in each combustion chamber, right?

Right...but this ain't your daddy's 350 cu SBC with a Holley carb and MSD ignition, so the truth is more complicated than just slapping it on and hauling ass.

Ugh, you're about to get all sciency on me aren'you...

Kinda, it's more back of the napkin science, but still useful nonetheless IMHO...

Fine...whatever, just hurry up!!

You got it! So what's the main question before us?

Q: How would the bigger TB help make bigger bangs inside the cylinder heads?
A: Well, it would do that because it will allow more air to enter the combustion chambers to be combusted.

Okay, but just adding more air won't necessarily help...

Q: Wouldn't the extra air require more fuel to be mixed (at the proper ratio of course) to get the bigger bangs?
A: Yes, and luckily the computer controlled multi-port fuel injection system can do just that - add fuel, on the fly, to account for the extra air in the mixture.

Great, but what about the fact that these cars use the Speed Density approach to calculate air/fuel mixtures...

Q: Does the whole MAP vs. MAF thing factor in at all here?
A: Unfortunately, yes it does.

The extra air in the mixture will be accounted for with the proper amount of extra fuel as long as the ECU is actively monitoring all its available sensors and reacting accordingly with the proper amount of fuel for the air calculated to be in the mixture. However, that ceases to occur at WOT on a MAP system. A modified tune would be necessary for WOT operation to occur at maximum efficiency in that case.

You're losing me...

Q: Is a bigger TB going to provide more OOMPH or not???
A: Like i said before, it's complicated...

You're fired!!

Haha, you wish...anyway, where were we...

Yes, the bigger TB (and its extra charge of air above and beyond what the stock TB can provide) will theoretically provide more OOMPH at non-WOT operation even without a modified tune. But to truly feel the difference a bigger TB can make, you would want to be operating at WOT. However, when you're operating at WOT, the ECU is still only mixing fuel at the ratios it believes are happening based upon the stock TB's capabilities. Now that is going to result in a more lean mixture most likely, which some might say is good. it's the old "you gotta run 'em lean to run 'em mean" adage. But running it too lean at WOT will increase the chances of knock, and with knock comes KR, which is the one thing you do not want, as it saps HP/TQ every time.

<sigh> so what's the bottom line?!?!

Get a bigger TB if you want, it certainly won't hurt. But to truly get your money's worth, modify the tune to take advantage of what the bigger TB has to offer.
 
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2016
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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for the replies guys!
I will be taking it to the strip every few months until it gets too hot, then again in the fall when temps cool off.
I'm just hoping to beat my [email protected] with the MT Drag Radials mostly. (My Nitto 555 G2's just don't hook up like I thought they would)
The throttle body is just for fun, I figure it can't hurt and might help me in top end.
 

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You can get the same affect if you tune a throttle boost (i.e. throttle blade opens more for a given pedal input).

http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f18/bigger-throttle-body-makes-difference-2015-392-s-413633/
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Hopefully this isn't too dumb a question. I just for a Procharger installed on my 6.4. The installer was Procharger certified and they had him reinstall my stock TB from the 87mm I had put on it. Will putting the 87mm back on cause any issues? Would I need a new tune? Or...should I do it for better throttle response?
 

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If it was me, I would spend the money elsewhere...like an upgraded fuel pump instead of a boost-a-pump, or wideband O2 set-up. If you already have those, I would say a bigger throttle body in your case may help as you are pushing air into the intake. I think you would notice the response more than any added power benefits. Just my $0.02.
 

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Anyone had a before and after dyno run to test this product ?
I have a chassis dyno and do testing mainly on exhaust systems and multi throttle setups
Sometimes in the case of exhausts the fancy stuff can actually loose HP and the mods that you
think will increase top end actually increase mid range or nothing at all
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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.
Hopefully this isn't too dumb a question. I just for a Procharger installed on my 6.4. The installer was Procharger certified and they had him reinstall my stock TB from the 87mm I had put on it. Will putting the 87mm back on cause any issues? Would I need a new tune? Or...should I do it for better throttle response?
My guess is they went back to the original TB at install because that’s what the std tune they use for s/c installs on that motor assumes (a stock sized TB). A larger TB would require a slightly altered tune to not only take advantage of it, but to operate as trouble-free as possible on a newly installed s/c setup.

If it were me I would leave the stock TB in place until I could find a person/place that could modify my tune to account for the larger TB, once installed.

You could just install it and see what happens, but I would advise against that on a s/c engine. There is simply too much money, time, and effort at stake to just hope no adverse consequences occur from unexpected performance-affecting mods IMHO.
 
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My guess is they went back to the original TB at install because that’s what the std tune they use for s/c installs on that motor assumes (a stock sized TB). A larger TB would require a slightly altered tune to not only take advantage of it, but to operate as trouble-free as possible on a newly installed s/c setup.

If it were me I would leave the stock TB in place until I could find a person/place that could modify my tune to account for the larger TB, once installed.

You could just install it and see what happens, but I would advise against that on a s/c engine. There is simply too much money, time, and effort at stake to just hope no adverse consequences occur from unexpected performance-affecting mods IMHO.
I'm pretty much in agreement amigo...until I see a need to do it, I'll refrain from switching TBs.
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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I'm pretty much in agreement amigo...until I see a need to do it, I'll refrain from switching TBs.
I would think you could get away with using the new one with the s/c if you had a hand-held tuner and could data-log your driving to make sure the new TB wasn’t introducing a bunch of unexpected KR at WOT or something.

If your own data-logs showed no sign of an adverse reaction to the bigger TB, and as long as your butt-dyno didn’t detect any loss of performance either, I would say running the bigger TB should be okay...

but still, to truly get your money’s worth out of it and the s/c together, having a pro do a custom tune for it would be the only way to go really.
 
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having a pro do a custom tune for it would be the only way to go really.
Agreed. In fact, all the guys running PD super chargers (including myself) are running tunes that have been modified by tuners. In fact, if I ran the tune that came with my kit, my car would have ran like crap and not rev past 4K. At the minimum have your car tuned via email. Mine was done through API (where I purchased the kit), who used a third party tuner. It was a slow process of log, email, update tune...repeat.
 

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The Pork Wagon (‘14 Cop Charger)
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Agreed. In fact, all the guys running PD super chargers (including myself) are running tunes that have been modified by tuners. In fact, if I ran the tune that came with my kit, my car would have ran like crap **and not rev past 4K**. At the minimum have your car tuned via email. Mine was done through API (where I purchased the kit), who used a third party tuner. It was a slow process of log, email, update tune...repeat.
I read that thought, "Wow, that's crazy!" It is hard to believe you operate a motor vehicle out in public in such a fashion that would require you to turn that many RPMs! What on earth are you doing that you need to exceed 2500 or 3000 RPMs?!?

:11:

It seems pretty clear to me what's going on - you, sir, are out of control!!



(But seriously, if you ever come through Dallas, can I ride along with you :grin2:) :blueblob:
 
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