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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
!!! FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY !!!

I've always held down the esp button for 7-10 seconds until it chimes and the esp off, bas and squiggly lines appear on the dash. I just assumed that it was off. Last week I stopped in to the local speed shop to discuss a few upcoming mods. They mentioned the "traction control bypass mod" and thought I already had it. I asked them if they were talking about holding the esp button down and they said that only shuts it off about 80%. I did some searching and sure enough I came across it several times...80%. The shop said it's a must for all of the supercharged cars that pass through their shop, it's part of their install. It's basically just a toggle switch in line with the positive/hot wire to the esp module so you can shut it off completely at the flip of a switch. I went ahead and did it last night, only took about 20 minutes and I figured it would be easy enough to put back to normal if it didn't work. I drove it this morning, flipped the switch off and got all the correct lights on the dash as well as the chime. I took it out to one of my favorite spots for some testing, there is a difference!
It breaks loose as usual but continues to burn rubber until I let off the gas a bit. For example, I use to chirp 2nd pretty hard when getting on it going through the gears in a 1/4 mile run, now it breaks loose and seems to continue spinning loose and getting sideways until I let off the gas a bit. This may not help with et's but this is where it get's good, before when I broke loose off the line or between gears I noticed the power would come back gradually, now, it's instant! Break loose, let off a tad then hammer it and loose again. As for drifting, much easier to get and stay sideways, yes, the donut's are great too! Much more fun to drive but will require some extra skill in the 1/4 mile. I think it's only fair to mention that I need softer tires in the rear, I'm running a pretty hard tire so it was already easy for me to break loose before this mod, if you have good sticky tires it may not be as pronounced for you as it is for me. Anyway, might not be for everyone but I'll enjoy it. Here's the "How to" link I found that worked for my 2009 SRT8. I found some for the RT's as well but I didn't save the shortcut, I guess I should have but it wasn't hard to find. Maybe everyone already knows about it but I did some searching here on the forum before posting (to avoid a duplicate thread) and didn't find anything. Hope someone will find this useful.
This link is for installing an actual no esp module that utilizes the existing button, I just used it to locate the correct wire to cut and splice in a toggle switch, $3.00 mod.

View attachment ChallengerInstall.pdf

\/ \/ \/ NOTE \/ \/ \/
INSTRUCTIONS HAVE BEEN ADDED TO POSTS 23, 24 AND 25 of this thread.
 

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You know... I installed the NoESP module on my car (the base R/T only has TC off otherwise), and it doesn't kill the nannies 100%. I would estimate its effect at 80-90% max, just like what you state your stock button does. The BAS catches my slides (you can feel the vibration from the brake pulsating on the wheel) and the ABS intervenes during hard braking in the rain. It's very reduced and easy to overwhelm, but the safety net is still there.

Some people contend that ABS isn't affected at all by NoESP, by the way, but it is. The dash light doesn't come on, and I suspect it's because the system is still operating, albeit greatly reduced. The pulsations feel very different and the slides are longer. Did my testing on a rainy day for things to be more obvious.

And as far as I know the NoESP mod does exactly the same thing as the stock TC/ESP off button on the SRT and STP-equipped cars.
 

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09 RT Challenger auto
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I thought mine was done in the tune ? Should it not show in the data log throttle pid ? there is normally a (closes 10%) dip in the throttle, like the tq mgmt seen in the throttle pid. ? I might be off on this and never knew.
I dont feel any brakes pulsate unless TC is on, it then lets the car fall on its face when the light goes green and picks right back up.
Kills .50sec from added to my et.
FlatTop
 

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Discussion Starter #7
YAW sensor

Hemi Eagle is correct, it's the YAW sensor that is being bypassed here. The YAW sensor detects g force and wheel spin/acceleration and causes tc to kick in whether it's 50% or 80%, when you shut it off completely with this mod the car thinks there is something wrong with the sensor and ignores it letting you drift and burnout to your hearts desire. I wanted this mod because I have line lock and I have noticed that when I lock the fronts and do a burnout I always smelled my rear brakes afterward which should not engage at all.... unless the YAW sensor is not completely disabled with this mod. Even the unit that is sold for the RT's say's that it wont do anything for the SRT because it is essentially making it the same as holding down the esp button on a stock SRT, 80%. The guy that owned my car before me works part time at the speed shop where I got this tip from and works full time as the master mechanic at the dealership where I bought my car. That dealership has a contract with CHP for modifying their training vehicles (5.7 Chargers), they do this mod for them as well and I saw the video's of them drifting around the track roasting tires as well as our tax money, lol. A member on a different forum competes in drifting competitions and was unable to drift effectively (in an SRT8) until he did this mod. Here is a thread I found this morning that applies to this mod, he bought a police Charger and tc didnt work, seems that the yaw sensor had been tampered with at one time and put back in backwards, the car assumed there was something wrong with the sensor, ignored it and zero traction control. He turned it around the right way and tc enabled.
My experience with EAS BAS Traction Malfunction and Dynamic Sensors ... - Dodge Charger Forums
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I thought mine was done in the tune ? Should it not show in the data log throttle pid ? there is normally a (closes 10%) dip in the throttle, like the tq mgmt seen in the throttle pid. ? I might be off on this and never knew.
I dont feel any brakes pulsate unless TC is on, it then lets the car fall on its face when the light goes green and picks right back up.
Kills .50sec from added to my et.
FlatTop
FlatTop, I'm not sure about the ability of the in tune to completely disable tc or the yaw sensor. Sorry man. I recently started a thread in the tuning section I was hoping you would chime in on, higher octane tuning. Maybe you could take a look if you get a chance.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
You know... I installed the NoESP module on my car (the base R/T only has TC off otherwise), and it doesn't kill the nannies 100%. I would estimate its effect at 80-90% max, just like what you state your stock button does. The BAS catches my slides (you can feel the vibration from the brake pulsating on the wheel) and the ABS intervenes during hard braking in the rain. It's very reduced and easy to overwhelm, but the safety net is still there.

Some people contend that ABS isn't affected at all by NoESP, by the way, but it is. The dash light doesn't come on, and I suspect it's because the system is still operating, albeit greatly reduced. The pulsations feel very different and the slides are longer. Did my testing on a rainy day for things to be more obvious.

And as far as I know the NoESP mod does exactly the same thing as the stock TC/ESP off button on the SRT and STP-equipped cars.
You're 100% correct in everything you said. Try this mod (if you want) and let us know if you feel a difference.
 

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You're 100% correct in everything you said. Try this mod (if you want) and let us know if you feel a difference.
Actually, and as much as I hate electronic nannies, 80% is enough for fun and operator control while still having a net. I drive with ESP off everywhere and I've already been called irresponsible by some here because of that. 100% would mean no ABS at all and this would probably get me fried in case of a big wreck too (although ESP off, a NoESP module installed and stored silent codes would probably be all it takes to characterize me as reckless).
If the switch method does give 100%, I think it may be a good thing for off-road fun and the track, but that's not my thing so much anymore so I think I'll pass.

I'm just surprised that you couldn't get more out of your SRT with the stock ESP off setup, powertec. There's some people here reporting having no problem overwhelming the nannies with ESP full on. I wouldn't want the monkey-on-my-back feeling and fried brakes after some spirited driving, but 80% off seems reasonable.

Just curious: powertec, could you tell us whether your cruise control works after you've turned ESP off? I'll admit: I don't exactly know how all this works. The wheel speed sensors are used by all these systems so if their input is cut off, I get that CC wouldn't work. Yet my 0-60 timer (and digital speedo) do work just fine with ESP off.

Why bypass it anyway?
This was already explained to you and you're just being stubborn or disingenuous: http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f37/no-esp-mod-abs-90772/#post1233618
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Still a lame thing to do so I guess I'll go with disingenuous. :bigmouth:
Not lame at all for those that drift or use line lock at the track.

Definitely not a good idea for street use, I can feel a difference in the braking without ABS. I had no problem breaking loose or getting sideway's before this mod but it feels much more pronounced now, totally free like the the old school muscle cars back in the day and throttle response/power returns immedietly after losing traction or getting sideway's instead of gradually is the biggest perk. I've read that cruise control will not work with this mod but I have not tried it myself, I'll give it a shot and let you know. I didnt mind it at 80% at all except that it seriously bothered me that I smelled my rear brakes after using line lock to warm up my tires, I think a toggle switch and instructions should come standard with line lock kits as well as the "for off road use only" warning.
 

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as appealing as this mod sounds i think it could be outright dangerous under certain conditions and circumstances. (if it works as stated) For those people with blowers and moderate to big boost i would have to think twice about doing this mod. I currently have nittos 305 555dr extreme drag raadials in my rear and i dont have this mod. i have lost control a few times in the challenger and was able to get back on track .......at moments it was darn outright scary are cars weigh 4000lbs plus now with this mod i could imagine everything happening so much faster ...the rear end kicking out to one side at 80mph and so on it only takes that one time. the esp helps keep are cars going straight and it helps them get back on track in a sticky situation i ll have to pass on this one
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
as appealing as this mod sounds i think it could be outright dangerous under certain conditions and circumstances. (if it works as stated) For those people with blowers and moderate to big boost i would have to think twice about doing this mod. I currently have nittos 305 555dr extreme drag raadials in my rear and i dont have this mod. i have lost control a few times in the challenger and was able to get back on track .......at moments it was darn outright scary are cars weigh 4000lbs plus now with this mod i could imagine everything happening so much faster ...the rear end kicking out to one side at 80mph and so on it only takes that one time. the esp helps keep are cars going straight and it helps them get back on track in a sticky situation i ll have to pass on this one
I'm glad you decided against it. If you lack the confidence to drive a heavy, high horsepower muscle car without electronic assistance I'm sure not going to try to talk you into it. No offense intended either, I see you're running a procharger, maybe the insurance is comforting but I will be adding a roots style sc soon and will most definitely be running this mod along side it for off road use. I would rather have the ability to go all out and learn to ease off when necessary then to have the car doing it for me. As much as I want a scary fast car, I also want to invest the time it takes to learn how to control it, that's at least 1/2 the fun. It's a no brainer that this isnt a safety mod, it's a mod that DISABLES SAFETY FEATURES!! AGAIN this mod is not for everyone and I'm certainly not trying to push it on anyone, it's just a mod that will be useful to a small handfull of guy's here that drift and drag their cars or just enjoy the skill involved in the challenge of trying to perfect launching a big, heavy, high horsepower torque monster manual 6 speed beast of a car without the assistance or interference of the electronic safety features like I do. I'm not supercharged like you are, currently saving for one, so mods like this are great on the cheap in an attempt to feel the full power that these cars have to offer. And for reasons explained earlier it's a must for line lock. I'm not sure if you noticed but by using a toggle switch I have the ability to TEMPORARILY bypass TC, have all the fun I want, get it all out of my system off road, then simply flip the switch back the other way and drive home safely. I'll edit the header of the opening post as to minimize confusion, thanks for your concern. I can see how this might be confusing to some.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
All this mod does is provide the freedom of choice. I can still run with traction control fully enabled, I can restrict it 80% and now I can shut it off completely if I choose to. I paid for every last horsepower and I should be able to play with every last one without restriction if I choose to. It makes no sense to me that the guy making 600+ rwhp is saying this is a bad idea, too unsafe, pretty sure he's the one with traction issues, lol. Where do you draw the line, what's considered unsafe, 600 hp, 800 hp, or 400 with tc off, lol. I would think it would vary from one person to another and would rely prominently on the skill of the driver. Who's to say I can't play with 400 rwhp safely but someone else can play with 600 rwhp not knowing each drivers skills or each other. Any one can buy horsepower but it doesn't mean they know how to control it, just watch a few super car fails on youtube. So let's stick to the topic which is NOT safety and let people choose their own level of risk.

 

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Even as I don't really see myself doing this mod (just because I'm always on public property and I'm too lazy to take my console apart again for a minor gain), I'm entirely with you that disabling the feature should be an option, that performance cars should definitely come with a switch, and that people should keep the trolling ("what's the point?" What's the point of a Challenger?! :rolleyes:) to themselves. Good on you for investigating more ways to kill those pesky nannies, powertec - it's ridiculous to have to overwhelm (and fry) the brakes to do power slides or burnouts.
 

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Even as I don't really see myself doing this mod (just because I'm always on public property and I'm too lazy to take my console apart again for a minor gain), I'm entirely with you that disabling the feature should be an option, that performance cars should definitely come with a switch, and that people should keep the trolling ("what's the point?" What's the point of a Challenger?! :rolleyes:) to themselves. Good on you for investigating more ways to kill those pesky nannies, powertec - it's ridiculous to have to overwhelm (and fry) the brakes to do power slides or burnouts.
I modified the Dynamic Yaw Sensor back in 2008 on my Caliber SRT-4 so I could completely disable the ESP (FULL OFF).

All the DODGE Vehicles share the same Dynamic Yaw Sensor.

:wink2:
 

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Thank you Powertec for taking the lead on this mod; very informative
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thank you Powertec for taking the lead on this mod; very informative
No problem, thanks USRWDV8 and O Racing for the support. I almost didn't share this because I know this is the type of mod that will attract some negative attention from some, which, even when expected is irritating and I'd almost rather not bother with it but that wouldn't be fair to the guy's that might find it useful. I can understand the negative feedback on some of the threads when people are asking for opinions or just being downright disrespectful to the majority of the community, but I just don't get it on the informational "how to" threads like this one. It may be something useful to some and not so much to others but at least you have the information to choose. I couldn't imagine if I were to post "it's not for me" or "no thanks, I'll pass" on every mod I wouldn't do to my car, I'd be in the 1,000's by now, we all would, hell a few hundred just from the aftermarket wheels thread alone, lol. If I see something I don't care for I just think, not for me, I don't actually type it in there for everyone to see. Oh well, what can you do... the most important thing is that this forum serves it's purpose of getting the information out and people sharing whatever tips and tricks they stumble across.
 
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