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Discussion Starter #1
Hey Guys,
As the title says, my traction sucks. Like REALLY sucks. Not sure other 6.4 owners are having this problem (to my degree).

Forget 1st gear as it just basically spins, I cannot go much more than half throttle in 2nd, and now am starting to spin in 3rd. This is in Normal mode with TSC/ESC enabled. I know the stock Pirelli's are bad (I have 275's), and these car are torque monsters, but this is really horrible. Starting to wonder if my traction control is (not) working. My car is stock performance wise except for a mid-muffler delete. I cannot get much better than high 4's / low 5's in the 0-60. If I race somebody with comparable horsepower I will get destroyed due to lack of traction. Car has 4,700 miles.

I've had many muscle cars (Boss 302, 1990 LX 5.0, small block Camaros and a 1969 440 GTX) and don't remember having such issues...well, maybe the 69 :)

Are you guys having this issue? Are the tires really this crappy? Shouldn't the traction control kinda' limit this, hence the name? Am I doing something wrong here? How the heck do Hellcat owners put the power down?

Thanks.
 

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I'm on 285's (9.5" wheels) on all fours with Continental Extreme Sports and they hook night and day difference to the 275 Pirelli's. I do road courses on occasion so along with the 4x 285's and lowering the suspension, it's not a bad track car now.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm on 285's on all fours with Continental Extreme Sports and they hook night and day difference to the 275 Pirelli's. I do road courses on occasion so along with the 4x 285's and lowering the suspension, it's not a bad track car now.

====================


So these Pirelli's suck that bad? OK, that's fair, but what about the (lack of) traction control kicking in. Isn't that what it's for, or am I missing something. Some cars I've owned that have would stop the spin and limit throttle input.


I love the car, but this traction thing is an issue.
 

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"All Season" tires or "Summer"?
 

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About a month ago I bought a 2015 srt 392 with only mid muffler delete and some 500 treadwear rating tires- not stock tire but probably worse since they are so hard and dry, other than that it's factory car that was a one owner, traction is horrible to say the least, tires brake loose at 30 mph when you floor it, leave the stop light and the tires just light up with little throttle.

So I feel you pain, seriously I don't get why folks want to make more power with these cars if you can't hook with what you got already, no wonder so my folks thinks it's normal to run say mid 12 at 120 mph and thinks it's ok. But that statement stems from another story.

So getting back on track, the day I bought my 2015 I took it out for some runs, the car had 39 psi in the rear 275 tires and the best I could do in three runs was a 5.3 or so 0-60 mph, I took the car home did a few dry burn outs ( noticed how hard and dry the tires was- just black powder with no stickiness what so ever) and measured the contact patch, the 275 tires laid down a black mark that was skinnier than a 245 tire at full contact. So i aired down the 275 tires which I believe was 28 psi and I got as much contact as I could at this air pressure for the 275 tires.

I took the car out and I was getting like 4.7 - 4.8 or so 0-60 mph and on really good concrete i got a 4.4 but that was once and not where I based lined the car, so that was a fluke pass at this point.

So I have been working on the suspension to find traction, right now I have v6 springs in the front from a 2010 v6 challenger, the stock srt springs have 5.5 coils and I now have smaller diameter coil springs with 6.5 coils, this lowered the front end only about .25" of an inch- which i wanted, I removed the front sway bar as well, the front end sure pops up better now.

For the rear i have camber bushing to install to get camber near zero degrees, a tire that stands straight will provide better traction, my car currently has .9 degrees of camber, I will be cutting at least 1/2 coil off the rear to increase the spring rate some to help with wheel hop and aid in traction, i also bought BMR lower trailing bars to install, I will be also making my own hop not kit using some 1/4 inch steel- instead of spending 250 bucks for the kit I can just make my own, I also bought some "softer" 295 tires which are taller to increase the contact patch- they still have a 440 wear rating but the larger tires should provide better traction.

So i'm working on the rear, don't have no results yet but I will post up when I get done, this should all help with traction, some of the other things I will do, lighter weight tires for the front, the current tires on the front weigh in at 34 lbs each and I found some lighter tires they weigh in at 28 lbs so far that are same size, this will allow the front to react quicker to transfer weight quicker. Then I may move to drag radials in the rear to really get it to hook up. I may find some other things to do like rear shock brace or air bags for the rear if needed. just going to do a little work at a time and keep testing til I get this beast to hook on the street before i head to the track, no need to go to the race track and look like a fool if the car don't hook up. i would like the car to run as well on the street as the track as I do to many of my street cars over the years.

So hope some of this helps
 

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Discussion Starter #9
About a month ago I bought a 2015 srt 392 with only mid muffler delete and some 500 treadwear rating tires- not stock tire but probably worse since they are so hard and dry, other than that it's factory car that was a one owner, traction is horrible to say the least, tires brake loose at 30 mph when you floor it, leave the stop light and the tires just light up with little throttle.

So I feel you pain, seriously I don't get why folks want to make more power with these cars if you can't hook with what you got already, no wonder so my folks thinks it's normal to run say mid 12 at 120 mph and thinks it's ok. But that statement stems from another story.

So getting back on track, the day I bought my 2015 I took it out for some runs, the car had 39 psi in the rear 275 tires and the best I could do in three runs was a 5.3 or so 0-60 mph, I took the car home did a few dry burn outs ( noticed how hard and dry the tires was- just black powder with no stickiness what so ever) and measured the contact patch, the 275 tires laid down a black mark that was skinnier than a 245 tire at full contact. So i aired down the 275 tires which I believe was 28 psi and I got as much contact as I could at this air pressure for the 275 tires.

I took the car out and I was getting like 4.7 - 4.8 or so 0-60 mph and on really good concrete i got a 4.4 but that was once and not where I based lined the car, so that was a fluke pass at this point.

So I have been working on the suspension to find traction, right now I have v6 springs in the front from a 2010 v6 challenger, the stock srt springs have 5.5 coils and I now have smaller diameter coil springs with 6.5 coils, this lowered the front end only about .25" of an inch- which i wanted, I removed the front sway bar as well, the front end sure pops up better now.

For the rear i have camber bushing to install to get camber near zero degrees, a tire that stands straight will provide better traction, my car currently has .9 degrees of camber, I will be cutting at least 1/2 coil off the rear to increase the spring rate some to help with wheel hop and aid in traction, i also bought BMR lower trailing bars to install, I will be also making my own hop not kit using some 1/4 inch steel- instead of spending 250 bucks for the kit I can just make my own, I also bought some "softer" 295 tires which are taller to increase the contact patch- they still have a 440 wear rating but the larger tires should provide better traction.

So i'm working on the rear, don't have no results yet but I will post up when I get done, this should all help with traction, some of the other things I will do, lighter weight tires for the front, the current tires on the front weigh in at 34 lbs each and I found some lighter tires they weigh in at 28 lbs so far that are same size, this will allow the front to react quicker to transfer weight quicker. Then I may move to drag radials in the rear to really get it to hook up. I may find some other things to do like rear shock brace or air bags for the rear if needed. just going to do a little work at a time and keep testing til I get this beast to hook on the street before i head to the track, no need to go to the race track and look like a fool if the car don't hook up. i would like the car to run as well on the street as the track as I do to many of my street cars over the years.

So hope some of this helps

================================


Wow, thanks for the detailed response. Glad to see it's not just me. So it looks like (at least partly) can be solved with decent tires. My best 0-60 is 4.7 and that was more of a flier. I am running 30 psi. Will try a little lower psi.and see if that helps. My tread-ware rating is 400.
 

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========================
All season Pirelli P Zero Nero 275 40 20
That explains your problem. I run those in cold weather and they have very little grip compared to the summer tires. Of course the summer tires have no grip once the weather turns cold.
 

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Yeah all season tires have no business on these cars, but to Dennis, I would suggest throwing on some drag radials and you'll have immediate high 3 second 0-60 times as opposed to altering an expensive and excellent suspension set-up.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Looking into tires now. These tires are not only annoying but dangerous.



Thanks everyone.
 

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The whole reason I got new wheels in a staggered setup with 295’s in the back is because if traction. The 295’s in all-seasons hook night and day difference compared to the 245’s I had. My best 0-60 is 4.2 stock. If I had a DR, I’m pretty confident I can get a 4.0.

FYI, pay little attention to treadwear. It’s my understanding that there is no uniform standard for treadwear, so yes the manufactures may be close in their ratings, but 200 for one manufacture may be different than another’s 200. Go by reviews.
 

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Since changing the tires out on mine it has made a world of difference in how my 2011 RT launches from a static stop. Opposed to the 245's in the rear previously her current tires have a wider section width plus the compound is superior to the former. The current tires I'm using are the Michelin Pilot Sport AS-3+ in a staggered arrangement with 245/45 R20's (front) and 255/45 R20's (rear). Albeit, there too are quite a few threads on here that are very informative and helpful in selecting the tires which would best suite you. Far as getting off the line is concerned I found it (for myself) best to bring the tachometer up to 1,500 rpm while in 1st. On depressing the gas and letting off the brake I'll bring the pedal down about half way then ease up about a quarter before putting it to the floor all in a fluid motion. That works best for me.
 

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Yeah all season tires have no business on these cars, but to Dennis, I would suggest throwing on some drag radials and you'll have immediate high 3 second 0-60 times as opposed to altering an expensive and excellent suspension set-up.
Well all know or should know, the rear of these cars are not so excellent, the dreaded wheel hop that breaks parts is a problem. installing a tire with decent traction ability just compounds problems with the rear cradle, some have even posted video of how violet the cradle moves around.

Cutting the rear springs raise the spring rate, alone it may not solve the issue, but it is a step forward plus when the car rocks back ( lifts up in front) it apply's more pressure to the tires for traction. As small a change it might be it will help.

Installing a hop not kit helps prevent the cradle from moving around and help to eliminate wheel hop-I'm just building my own version to do the same thing.

Lower trailing arms from bmr have stiffer bushings to loose the play from the factory to help keep the rear suspension inline to where they need to be under stresses.

taking some of or all the camber out of the rear just straightens up the tire so the tires wear evenly and the plus side this provides more traction, the only reason to have camber on the rear is for road racing and taking turns at a high rate of speed- for something i don't do.

All I'm doing is making improvements from the factory- factory has the rear set up for comfort and ok handling for road track use. even the road course guys will stiffen up the rear using firmer bushings and change settings to bring down the lap times. I'm just making small changes for the better for 1/4 mile racing and everday traction on the street.

Just tires are not the answer, everything needs to work together, to give you an example, my sons first car 85 trans am, took it to the track after we built the car, he ran slicks on the rear, he spun out of the hole with the slicks, car just didn't hook up very well even with the slicks, brought the car home, bought $300 worth of rear suspension parts to change how the car launches. We removed the front sway bar, change lower trailing arms, adjustable brackets, better shocks and so forth, get the car to push the rear end into the ground on launch and now the car launches harder and don't spin on launch.

Depending on what you want out of the car, small changes will make a difference and you can improve on what the factory gives you. That's all i'm doing, just putting drag radials on won't solve all the issues with traction, or problems the factory gives you, need to have other parts/changes to work with them to get the most out of them.
 

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The whole reason I got new wheels in a staggered setup with 295’s in the back is because if traction. The 295’s in all-seasons hook night and day difference compared to the 245’s I had. My best 0-60 is 4.2 stock. If I had a DR, I’m pretty confident I can get a 4.0.

FYI, pay little attention to treadwear. It’s my understanding that there is no uniform standard for treadwear, so yes the manufactures may be close in their ratings, but 200 for one manufacture may be different than another’s 200. Go by reviews.

You are correct about treadwear ratings- except dont pay attention to them statement, they are only good from the same tire manufacture, if you have goodyear claiming 400 for one tire and 300 for another tire they make, the 300 is a softer tire and will provide more traction and give less overall miles. A 400 treadwear from say goodyear and a 400 treadwear from bf wont be the same tire wear- but you can look at the advertise mileage if one claims 40k miles and another claims 45k mile tire, the 40k will have the better chance to be the softer tire- reviews will be good at this point too. But if you have 400 treadwear from goodyear and a 220 treadwear from nexen tire- you bet the nexen tire will be softer, there's just to much a gap between treadwear ratings to just ignore that much spread- the 400 treadwear will probably be around 45k miles and the 220 will probably advertise hopeful 30k. So i wouldn't say just ignore the ratings, the closer they are between two tires then reviews are good and claimed mileage wear will be good indicators for which is a softer tire.


In my case my tires on my 15 srt 392 that I bought show 500 treadwear rating, doing some small burnouts, the tires just produce dust and there is no stickiness what so ever, they are acting like a set of 10 year old slicks that are just dried out, basically these tires are just hard and dry, just buying new tires of the same kind would provide better traction. So with that being said, it is a given a taller tire will provide more launching forward traction if there is no other difference in compound of the tire.

So for me just going from a 275/40-20 to a 295/40-20 tire this alone with no regard to tire compound will provide more traction, just buying a new tire with a fairly new build date will provide more traction than an old tire that's hard and dry, so lastly my newer tires have a treadwear rating of 440, this is lower than a 500 and the given expected mileage is lower between the two so this is a good indication just from a treadwear stand point the 295 tires should be a softer tire and at this point between the two tires anything will be better than whats on the car now. As some pointed out just go for drag radials, I would rather at this point burn down a set of cheap 295 tires while working on the suspension then a pair of 750 dollar drag radials, once the suspension is complete and have fair amount of seat time in the new to me car then drag radials will be welcome, all the testing should be done and I should be able to hook and go without wearing down a set of drag radials to quickly.
 

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It really is a shame that the tread wear rating isnt uniform but I found its a pretty good indicator how much grip you are going to have. Thats why alot of the SCCA classes will say "200 treadwear" tire.

Now my 500 tread wear Pirelli run flats gripped like a 300 tread wear tire up until 4k mile mark then totally feel off the map and were done at 11,000 miles.
 

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Well all know or should know, the rear of these cars are not so excellent, the dreaded wheel hop that breaks parts is a problem. installing a tire with decent traction ability just compounds problems with the rear cradle, some have even posted video of how violet the cradle moves around.

Cutting the rear springs raise the spring rate, alone it may not solve the issue, but it is a step forward plus when the car rocks back ( lifts up in front) it apply's more pressure to the tires for traction. As small a change it might be it will help.

Installing a hop not kit helps prevent the cradle from moving around and help to eliminate wheel hop-I'm just building my own version to do the same thing.

Lower trailing arms from bmr have stiffer bushings to loose the play from the factory to help keep the rear suspension inline to where they need to be under stresses.

taking some of or all the camber out of the rear just straightens up the tire so the tires wear evenly and the plus side this provides more traction, the only reason to have camber on the rear is for road racing and taking turns at a high rate of speed- for something i don't do.

All I'm doing is making improvements from the factory- factory has the rear set up for comfort and ok handling for road track use. even the road course guys will stiffen up the rear using firmer bushings and change settings to bring down the lap times. I'm just making small changes for the better for 1/4 mile racing and everday traction on the street.

Just tires are not the answer, everything needs to work together, to give you an example, my sons first car 85 trans am, took it to the track after we built the car, he ran slicks on the rear, he spun out of the hole with the slicks, car just didn't hook up very well even with the slicks, brought the car home, bought $300 worth of rear suspension parts to change how the car launches. We removed the front sway bar, change lower trailing arms, adjustable brackets, better shocks and so forth, get the car to push the rear end into the ground on launch and now the car launches harder and don't spin on launch.

Depending on what you want out of the car, small changes will make a difference and you can improve on what the factory gives you. That's all i'm doing, just putting drag radials on won't solve all the issues with traction, or problems the factory gives you, need to have other parts/changes to work with them to get the most out of them.
Hey man, it's your car and good luck with it! If you want to live in denial of the fast that many many people with 392/A8 combos have only installed drag radials on the rear and have high run 11s easy, then fine. Some of those same people have further modified their rides and gone much lower e.t.s by the way. I know can you can alter the rear end and make it function even better, but I'm just saying it's not necessary depending on what your goals are. If you are transforming it into an all-out drag car, then mod away! Spohn rear control arms seem to be something a lot of people add.

Axle hop with the A8s is not something I see a lot of people talking about as something that happens regularly. Loading the driveline by brake torquing and getting the car to squat typically results in clean roll outs. I probably don't have as much experience on a drag strip as you do, but at the same time I've made hundreds of passes over the years...
 
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