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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So where I live, temperatures can reach 104F. The day I brought my car home from the dealership, I was caught in bumper to bumper traffic and noticed my oil temps got as high as 240F. I was so scared that I might overheat the engine and break it. Luckily, it never got to max temps(red line).

On subsequent trips, I never got over 230F, I think. Reading around, I get the impression that these engines are really hot. Should I worry?

A local car guy said that the spike I had was the ECU still learning the ambient temps. Is that true?

PS: Its a Scat Pack 6.4L
 

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Arizona temps typically keep both my cars (Charger and Challenger) oil temps to 220+. Coolant follows suit because of the obvious correlation between the two. As long as the coolant gauge doesn’t start to travel right of the middle line a lot, you will be fine.
PS. synthetic oil doesn’t break down until well over 240°.


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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So I should be keeping an eye on the coolant temps more? Sorry I ask, Im used to just watching the oil temps.
 

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A 240 oil temp is absolutely no big deal and a number that can be hit quite easily if you like to use the gas pedal.

You can keep an eye on coolant temp to if you want to scare yourself, with the stock 203 tstat you'll see it hit 225--230 pretty easy this time of year and hear the fans run a lot. That's the temperature range these cars are designed to hit to meet strict emission standards on these high-performance engines.

I run a 180 tstat during the warm season and like the fact that my car runs in the 200-210 range most of the time with it. I don't want to cook the crap out of all my rubber components under the hood all summer long. Doing a tstat swap on our cars is super easy, just gotta do it in the morning after it has sat overnight and cooled all the way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
A 240 oil temp is absolutely no big deal and a number that can be hit quite easily if you like to use the gas pedal.

You can keep an eye on coolant temp to if you want to scare yourself, with the stock 203 tstat you'll see it hit 225--230 pretty easy this time of year and hear the fans run a lot. That's the temperature range these cars are designed to hit to meet strict emission standards on these high-performance engines.

I run a 180 tstat during the warm season and like the fact that my car runs in the 200-210 range most of the time with it. I don't want to cook the crap out of all my rubber components under the hood all summer long. Doing a tstat swap on our cars is super easy, just gotta do it in the morning after it has sat overnight and cooled all the way.

I have read about a tstat swap and glad you mentioned it. I was gonna look into doin it but I understand to get the full benefits of it is to lower your fans threshold as well as a tstat swap? I'm still on my warranty, somcant modify the ecu.

Regardless, Im really interested in doing a tstat swap eventually if I can lower my temps without giving up anything if possible.
 

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So where I live, temperatures can reach 104F. The day I brought my car home from the dealership, I was caught in bumper to bumper traffic and noticed my oil temps got as high as 240F. I was so scared that I might overheat the engine and break it. Luckily, it never got to max temps(red line).

On subsequent trips, I never got over 230F, I think. Reading around, I get the impression that these engines are really hot. Should I worry?

A local car guy said that the spike I had was the ECU still learning the ambient temps. Is that true?

PS: Its a Scat Pack 6.4L

Car is fine. Engine is fine. Your "car guy" needs another hobby.

Even in milder ambient temperature I've seen the Hellcat oil temperature get to 230F in just driving through town on city streets, not even in bumper to bumper traffic.

While the temperature appears to be high to us to the oil it is not. The oil's working temperature is 212F. This is the temperature the high temperature/high sheer viscosity index (the "40" of 0w-40) is measured.

I have observed with my HC at 230F a drop of a couple of PSI in the oil temperature from above 40psi to just below it at hot idle. However, if I slip the transmission from D to P and the engine RPMs go up the oil pressure can increase 4 to 5 PSI. My point is in spite of the higher temperature the oil is not affected hardly at all.

Years ago in a still relatively new 2002 Boxster and new to me, unfamiliar to me, I encountered 116F temperatures. This in southern AZ one summer day.

No oil temperature gauge nor even an oil pressure gauge. But I was monitoring coolant temperature via the OBD2 port using an OBD2 code reader with the ability to view OBD2 telemetry in real time. The coolant temperature got to 226F. The temperature gauge needle normally hovering around the "180" hash mark -- which I already knew the coolant was hotter than this -- moved quite a bit towards the hot area of the gauge. The radiator fans come on at 212F and switch to high speed at 216F. So the 226F coolant temperature was quite unfamiliar to me, scary in fact to me. Intake air temperature was 135F. The engine compartment fan normally silent was running all the time.

I had reasonably fresh Mobil 1 0w-40 oil in engine having just had it changed while I was in Sacramento just a day or two before ending up in AZ.

Long story short I made it, the car made it out of AZ and the heat with no signs of any issues. Back home I talked to the service manager and detailed what had happened. He took the info down -- he was curious about the seemingly extreme coolant temperature. He submitted the data to the factor. After some time -- nearly a week -- the factory responded with something along the lines that as long as no warning lights came on like coolant temperature or oil pressure (or level) there was no problem. And this proved to be the case. The engine was fine and went on to run just fine for another nearly 300K+ miles.

As a side note, Porsche used to road test its new/prototype cars in the desert southwest in the summer months. (As did and still do other car makers.) But to keep prying spy eyes away -- mainly photogs seeking to get spy shots of early new models -- Porsche switched to hot weather testing its cars in South Africa, in a very low population area in the northern area of the country. There the government gave Porsche the freedom to drive at high speeds (AZ and CA cops frowned upon Porsche test mule vehicles being driven at high speeds), and keeps photogs away so Porsche had its privacy.

Couple of things. The car is a new car. What you need to do is check the oil level at regular intervals to keep an eye on the oil consumption. A new engine can use a bit of oil. Check the oil level with the engine cold, after having sat overnight since last used. Remember the cold oil level can be a bit lower than when the oil is checked hot. Then check the oil hot. I like to check the oil after I have filled up the gas tank-- but only after I have driven the car long enough the engine is fully up to temperature: I monitor the oil temperature and while I would like to see the oil temperature at 212F I 'll "settle" for 200F or higher as hot enough; and the car has sat for a few minutes with hot engine off. This has a considerable amount of oil having had the time to drain back into the oil pan. With the oil hot the level could be a bit higher than when the oil is checked cold. You want to note the cold level vs. the hot so when you check the level cold and see it is down enough the hot oil level would also be down you can add oil to bring the hot level up to full without overfilling the engine.

I really prefer to run the oil level -- hot -- at the max line to ensure there is plenty of oil in oil pan at all times.

This regular checking of the oil level also provides you an early warning of a problem with oil consumption. I don't think this will be the case -- it is a rare thing -- but the sooner you know the sooner you can get this addressed.

Also, keep an eye on the other vital fluids, particularly the coolant level. The cooling system remaining fluid and pressure tight is critical to the engine's health. The coolant can get plenty hot -- as I mentioned above I've seen it -- at least with another car -- at 226F. The only thing that keeps this very hot coolant from boiling is pressure. If there is a leak the hot coolant will flash to steam in the hottest areas of the engine -- in the heads around the exhaust ports -- and this team forms bubbles (filled with steam) that block coolant flow/contact with these hot areas. Localized overheating will happen and this can lead to the head cracking or a head gasket failure.

There's more. Unless forbidden by the owners manual my recommendation is you change the oil early. A new engine sheds debris this is normal. The filter catches this but in some engines and I think Dodge engines are one such engine there is an oil bypass valve that lets unfiltered oil flow to the engine. By draining this early oil that I'm sure will be quite laden with debris/fine metal particles you reduce the amount of debris that could be circulated with the oil in the event the oil bypass valve opens.

At the same time the engine is shedding debris it generates combustion byproducts some of which get into the oil. This too is normal. Among the contaminates is water. Now when the oil temperature climbs to 212F or higher the water in the oil boils. But it may not leave the engine just yet. If this water vapor encounters a surface that is below 212F it condenses back into water and this water then is back in the oil. So not only does the oil have to be 212F but any surface the water vapor comes in contact with as the water vapor flows from the engine crankcase through the oil vapor recovery system in the valve cover then out the hose that carries the crankcase "fumes" to the engine intake and where the fumes will be "burned" in the combustion chambers.

What will happen is even if the water is kept boiled out of the engine the other contaminates continue to build up and will affect the oil's ability to protect the engine. The only way to deal with any water or other combustion byproducts in the oil is to drain the oil and replace it with fresh oil and at the same time remove the filter and replace the filter.

My advice is -- and this is what I follow with my new cars -- is change the oil early, unless as I mentioned unless this early oil change is forbidden in the owners manual. I've never seen any case where it is but just saying always follow the owners manual.


For the first oil change I "like" 500 miles which is around 16 hours of engine run time. (However sometimes circumstances can interfere and the early/first oil change may not happen until nearly 600 miles, or not until 750 miles, or even in one case just over 1K miles. Still early is better than not at all. No way I'd run that initial factory fill oil the full 6K miles or even 6 months.)

Then after the 1st oil change I change the oil at 2K miles, which is at the end of "break in". I am not a fan of getting the engine to the end of its break in period and then putting the whip to the engine with dirty/contaminated oil in the engine.

(Be aware too that lab and field tests have found that break in continues for some few thousand miles beyond the nominal break in miles.)

Then I have the oil changed at 5K miles. So the initial oil is in service for 500 miles, the 2nd batch of oil is in service for 1500 miles and the 3rd batch of oil is in service for 3K miles. Then I follow a 5K mile (or 6 month as per the factory guidelines) oil change service interval.

These early oil/filter services recognize the normal behavior of a new engine and seek to minimize the risk of any issues from the contamination of the oil during these first few thousand miles on the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
@Rockster

Thank you very much for taking the time to write that up, will definitely heed your advice. As it stands, Im still at 280 miles, so I still need a few more.

I truly do get the early oil change as I have a friend who races locally. He says they change oil every 150 miles on their race cars and even 8000 miles, they're still getting metal shavings. He told me to change my cars oil early as well.
 

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@Rockster

Thank you very much for taking the time to write that up, will definitely heed your advice. As it stands, Im still at 280 miles, so I still need a few more.

I truly do get the early oil change as I have a friend who races locally. He says they change oil every 150 miles on their race cars and even 8000 miles, they're still getting metal shavings. He told me to change my cars oil early as well.

You are welcome.

Metal in the oil after 8000 miles? Not unusual. I can tell you even with hundreds of thousands of miles on an engine occasionally the engine will shed a piece of metal and if one takes the time when changing the oil to check the oil filter oil or examine the filter element -- with my Porsche engines this was easy as the filter element was an insert rather than sealed in the filter housing -- he will see this if he dumps the filter housing oil out into a clean drain pan. The metal particles are small because at least in the case of the Porsche engine the piece of metal may have gone through an oil scavenge pump and then through the high pressure pump. And with Porsche the oil bypass valve routes oil back to the intake side of the gear oil pump so it is possible any metal bit that have made it to the filter housing can get cycled through the oil pump over and over again.

The time I changed the oil in my new 2008 Cayman S after 750 miles the filter housing oil looked like some kind of ugly metal flake paint the aluminum bits having been pulverized after gone through the oil pump uncountable times. But when I changed the oil again at just 1500 miles the amount of metal "flake" in the filter housing oil was so slight it would not show up in pictures. Then just to be safe I had the oil changed again at 2K miles -- end of "break in". This time at the dealer. With only 500 miles on this oil didn't bother to catch the filter oil. But looked at the filter element and there was just a few tiny particles of aluminum caught in the folds of the filter insert.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Speaking of oil change, just in case its difficult to get hold of Pennzoil here, any 100% synthetic, 0w40 oil brand will do correct? Or are there preferred ones after Pennzoil? 0w40 is fine for tropical weather right?
 

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Best I could find today was Pennzoil 5w40, hope that would suffice.

No 5w-40 oil is approved for use. Not even a Pennzoil oil.

There are only two oils approved/sanctioned by Dodge to use in the engine. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-40 Full Synthetic and an Amsoil 0w-40 oil, the full name I'm not familiar with. There are probably a number of 0w-40 Amsoil oils so you want to be sure you get the right one if you elect to use Amsoil.

My advice is you seek out a source for the proper oil. Do not know where you are but in my area Dodge dealers carry the correct oil, at least the Pennzoil oil.

Even if the Dodge dealers don't carry it I would think one could order it for you.

If getting the oil via a Dodge dealer is not an option check with an auto parts store. While the store might not carry the oil it probably can order it.

Worst case is you will have to go online and order the oil. Of course besides the oil you need the proper oil filter and any drain plug washer, sealing ring, any other consumable that is needed for an oil change. As a back up I'd have on hand a spare oil drain plug and any other drain plug you have to remove to perform an oil/filter service.

A bit of a pain but you should use the right oil and this not only helps ensure a long and trouble free service life from the engine it helps keep in effect the new car warranty so if God forbid the engine developed a serious problem there would be no reason -- at least arising from the oil used -- to deny the warranty claim. You must still adhere to the proper servicing schedules and if you do these yourself come up with a way to document them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Yeah, if 5w40 isnt viable, I was goin the dealer route, last option is Amazon. I believe the other one was Shell Helix 0w40. I might be able to source that. I'll double check the manual to be sure.




Edit: Shell was for 5.7.
 

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Yeah, if 5w40 isnt viable, I was goin the dealer route, last option is Amazon. I believe the other one was Shell Helix 0w40. I might be able to source that. I'll double check the manual to be sure.
Go down and check with your dealer. The "one on one" chatting with them can pay off.

I get my Pennz from my dealer for $7.49/quart. While a lot of folks are down on Pennz and FCA having a special "MS" spec, the Pennz is very good oil IMO.
 

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Yeah, if 5w40 isnt viable, I was goin the dealer route, last option is Amazon. I believe the other one was Shell Helix 0w40. I might be able to source that. I'll double check the manual to be sure.




Edit: Shell was for 5.7.

Shell Helix is not sanctioned for use in the 6.4l engine. AFAIK the same oil for my HC is what Dodge says to use for the 6.4l engine and the oils I named in a previous post -- Amsoil 0w-40 and please don't make my type that Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-40 Full Synthetic again... Oh wait. Uh, nevermind. Anyhow, just the Amsoil and the Pennzoil UP stuff are the only oils I know are what Dodge says to use and I would advise you to use what Dodge says to use. My preference would be to use the Pennzoil oil and that is what I use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
...and please don't make my type that Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-40 Full Synthetic again... Oh wait. Uh, nevermind...
What was it again? >:)>:)>:)

Seriously, thanks for being patient with me. I live in Asia, Philippines and its really warm here. Plus the fact that its very difficult to get the good stuff in here. This is my first American car and trying to learn how to take care of her. Doesn't really help that I'm not a car guy as well.
 

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What was it again? >:)>:)>:)

Seriously, thanks for being patient with me. I live in Asia, Philippines and its really warm here. Plus the fact that its very difficult to get the good stuff in here. This is my first American car and trying to learn how to take care of her. Doesn't really help that I'm not a car guy as well.
Well, regardless of where you are you should try to give the car the right oil and servicing/etc. You have to decide if the situation is too involved or the proper supplies, at least oil, is too hard to get what you want to use for an alternative. But if you can't use what the factory calls for then whatever criteria you use to pick the alternative oil are all equal and equally invalid.

Just thinking out loud if you can get the right oil filter (filters: engine oil, engine air, cabin, possibly a fuel filter as these will all need replacement at some time) getting the right oil should be doable too.

Also, you need to consider what "spares" you want to stock so you have these on hand rather than having to wait maybe weeks for the right parts to arrive.

This would include enough oil for a change (or two) and spares in case you need to add oil between changes. Consider having enough Dodge antifreeze on hand in case you have to ever refill an empty cooling system.

I'd recommend you have a spare oil drain plug and any other drain plug you unloosen to drain the oil. A spare filter for every filter the car has. Spare radiator cap in case one gets lost. Set of spark plugs. Fuses. Common exterior light bulbs. Maybe not spare headlights but spare turn signal/tail/break lights, side marker lights. Spare windshield wipers.

Maybe a spare water pump, factory T-stat, and a spare V-belt (if the car uses one of course) and a spare serpentine belt. When I bought my new 2002 Boxster I picked up a set of spare accessory drive idler rollers and even a new tensioner and tensioner roller and never used them in 317K miles. But in 161K miles my Turbo had at least one idler roller bearing go out two times.

Also, consider a spare tire (or two). If the car gets a flat tire if the other tire on the axle is worn "too much" you probably should replace both tires with new ones. I ran into this recently when the driver side rear tire picked up something. The tire repair kit worked like a charm and plugged the hole, at least well enough for the tire to hold 42psi -- I over inflated it for some margin in case the tire still leaked as I drove ~4 miles to the dealer for new tires. But with close to 14K miles on the rear tires which were believe it or not as worn or as not worn as the front tires -- the SA and I agreed that both rear tires should be replaced. With my Porsche cars Porsche called for the other tire to be replaced if the tread depth difference was 30% between a new tire and the worn tire on the same axle.

Which reminds me: Get a spare canister or two of the proper tire sealant goop the kit uses.

Above, I was just tossing some things you might want to have laying around for just in case. Only you can know how readily some of the above hardware/supplies is available or how long it takes to arrive and stock up or not as you believe you need to.

Doesn't get any hotter where you are than it gets in a large area of the southwest USA. Not yet at least so far in my Hellcat but I've driven in 116F to 119F ambient temperatures for hundreds of miles and in a number of different cars and with no issues. Even where I live in "northern" CA summer time ambient temperatures can top 100F. Back in late June 2009 I drove my "new" (just bought used 2003 996 Turbo) from Palo Alto CA to Livermore CA and it was in the high 90s in Palo Alto and before I reached home I passed through temperatures in the 107F to 111F range. More recently while it hasn't gotten that hot it still tops 100F here more often than I like. Not this year, yet, but give it time. Our hottest time of the year is August/September and even into October. A few years ago we were experiencing 100F+ temperatures in October.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yeah, I've been building up my spares slowly. Thanks for throwing that list up there, didn't consider/missed a few items.
 

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I've been questioning my temps for a couple years now. I'm in upstate NY so the car isn't driven near as much as a year round daily driver, but I've noticed it seems like the water temp gauge runs a little bit higher year after year. Any spirited driving, even pretty mild brings the water temp to 215+ lately. I have a B+G tune, which I believe has the fan temps set for a 180 thermostat, which I installed at the same time (7+ years ago?). Never really looked at the oil temps until this year and they were well into the mid 230's. I had the dealer do a cooling system flush/refill this year. Didn't seem to make any difference.
 

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I was in stop and go traffic creeping through Golden Gate Park, and I saw the temp gauge as high as 217. Back down to 203 as soon as I got rolling again. 203 seems to be where it's at when"normal".

A Guy
 
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