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Discussion Starter #61
How does it fire up? Did you get the starting issues lined out?
Yes, it now cranks fine. It took a combo of things.

1. Startup airflow is stock.

2. I used Hellcat throttle body tables and reduced their values by about 20% in the idle areas. I also set the 0 cell to a value of 6.

3. I used the Hellcat Injector start up base tables.
 

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Discussion Starter #62
You sure can't do much better on that! That's what a Muscle car should sound like!! DANG, that sounds good!!!

You did a Great job on the tune and now I need a new keyboard because I just drooled all over mine and shorted it out! :D

How's she drive? Does she lope alot when coming off idle or pull away smoothly? Do you have the specs on your cam or were they proprietary for the builder?

Thanks also for the tuning tips and the video. I've been wanting to sit down and learn about our cars computers, but just haven't made the time. You posts help me want to find the time (that video of yours and MDS, makes me want to change the cam., but I'm too cheap :)). :cheers:


Once again, Fantastic job!
Normal driving is very smooth. Tuning lope in drive is very difficult, as the car will surge and buck if you get to aggressive with the idle torques.

Basically, once I come off idle.. you would never know it had a cam in it, other than the power. It drives just like stock for the most part.
 
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Would it be asking too much to upload your tune to look through?

I just want to see the differences in yours and a stock one. I'll bet it's pretty substantial.

I don't know much about Dodge tuning, but do know my way around GM stuff, so this is learning everything from scratch here. I don't want to go through the expense of tuning, but it's Very interesting top learn new stuff and this is about as new as it gets. I have a Really good understanding of what things do, just don't know what they do or are called when it comes to Dodge tuning.

If you don't want to upload it, I understand completely.

Thanks in advance either way. :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Would it be asking too much to upload your tune to look through?

I just want to see the differences in yours and a stock one. I'll bet it's pretty substantial.

I don't know much about Dodge tuning, but do know my way around GM stuff, so this is learning everything from scratch here. I don't want to go through the expense of tuning, but it's Very interesting top learn new stuff and this is about as new as it gets. I have a Really good understanding of what things do, just don't know what they do or are called when it comes to Dodge tuning.

If you don't want to upload it, I understand completely.

Thanks in advance either way. :cheers:
PM me your email address and I'll send you the file.
 
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You just have to play around with the throttle tables...it is all torque based so it takes time to get it to play nice.

Here are my throttle values... also you can play with Startup air flow to make it fire harder.

With the cam, my car is very sensitive to startup airflow...to much and it won't crank consistently. It also likes a lot of fuel... I'm using Hellcat startup pulse width tables.

If you notice, my throttle body airflow numbers are really small above 1.0.... much smaller than stock 6.4L numbers. This results in a smoother transition to WOT.


Ok , so I copied over the airflow table here’s a before shot

But I notice my other tables don’t transfer the same. Here’s a shot , how do I get my numbers on the left to match yours?

On the sonic flow chart , the voltage matches mine , but as you can see , the mass airflow numbers don’t read the same. ???
But my settings are damn near identical to yours , just for different lb/hr..?.? Hmmmm...
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Here is the thing with TB flow values. You would think you would increase the numbers for the bigger TB; however the opposite is true. Above 0.5 volts, you actually want to decrease them. This will signal the PCM that the TB is actually smaller and cause it to open slightly more and improve throttle response.



There are 3 tables to adjust... the sonic table, large and small table. I have attached my values. They should work fine for a stock vehicle.


Hey man , just wondering if there were any changes performance wise between these two tables you have. I originally copied over the tables from the earlier post and they worked very well. But recently I went back to diablo to take care of some email tuning to dial in an e85 tune. Anyway , Sean’s numbers for throttle went back to where they were (higher). I was just heading back to change that and noticed the difference in the tables you just posted. So was wondering what if anything made you reduce them even more?


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Discussion Starter #68
Hey man , just wondering if there were any changes performance wise between these two tables you have. I originally copied over the tables from the earlier post and they worked very well. But recently I went back to diablo to take care of some email tuning to dial in an e85 tune. Anyway , Sean’s numbers for throttle went back to where they were (higher). I was just heading back to change that and noticed the difference in the tables you just posted. So was wondering what if anything made you reduce them even more?


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It just makes sense to me that the tables should be fairly linear as they increase. I honestly can't say I notice a huge difference one way or another, but I do know that the transition from light throttle to WOT is quick and smooth.

Slightly off topic... don't you have a 3.70 in your car? I ordered one from Steve White yesterday.
 

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It just makes sense to me that the tables should be fairly linear as they increase. I honestly can't say I notice a huge difference one way or another, but I do know that the transition from light throttle to WOT is quick and smooth.



Slightly off topic... don't you have a 3.70 in your car? I ordered one from Steve White yesterday.


Gotcha, thanks. That’s about what i noticed when I originally lowered them, smooth transitions.
I did have the 3.70 in for a while. I was having a vicious wheel hop hitting second gear at the track. Didn’t want to risk breaking things so I went back to the 3.09. Also was crossing the line over 6500 in 5th(3.09 was ~5800iirc). I think with the e85 , the injectors and the trans tuning it’ll pull up to that now a little stronger. I also picked up a diff brace and next is a driveshaft. So I think I’ll go back to the 3.70 after that. I did enjoy the gear almost all the time , short of that, second gear shift.(this was with 305/45/18 555R). Different da’s but with the 3.70 in ~2000 da she ran 1.7x 60 and 12.0 @ 113 with the 3.09 in ~400 da she ran 1.6x 60 and 11.8 @ 116. BUT , those runs with the 3.70 I couldn’t get solid runs. When I was hitting second I either feathered it or the trans was shifting into third on me.
 

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Yeah, it is counter intuitive but one of the tuners on HP recommends going lower and not higher as you can get to a point where you hit an unseen limit in the factory flow model.



https://forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?62333-Bigger-Throttle-Body&p=466902&viewfull=1#post466902


Right on , I had seen hemituna saying that when I first switched over to Hp , and then seeing it again when ken posted it. So I gave it a shot , and as there’s no “wow” factor , I did notice smoother and crisper transitions.


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It just makes sense to me that the tables should be fairly linear as they increase. I honestly can't say I notice a huge difference one way or another, but I do know that the transition from light throttle to WOT is quick and smooth.



Slightly off topic... don't you have a 3.70 in your car? I ordered one from Steve White yesterday.


Hey man , just wondering how it’s working out with the 3.70? I’m still up in the air wether to put mine back in , I really did like the step up in the middle gears(mostly 3+4). Thoughts ?


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Yeah your values are lower than my SC 5.7. Hemituna on the HP forum states that going small on the airflow numbers generally improves throttle response and driveability. I guess you have to play around until you find a sweet spot. This kind of trial and error approach is what makes learning how to use these tables a little frustrating.
You just have to play around with the throttle tables...it is all torque based so it takes time to get it to play nice.

Here are my throttle values... also you can play with Startup air flow to make it fire harder.

With the cam, my car is very sensitive to startup airflow...to much and it won't crank consistently. It also likes a lot of fuel... I'm using Hellcat startup pulse width tables.

If you notice, my throttle body airflow numbers are really small above 1.0.... much smaller than stock 6.4L numbers. This results in a smoother transition to WOT.
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I'm in this area now. I have weak warm startups and RPM hunt when rolling in neutral. Are you running the higher settings?
 

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Some things that come to mind are elevated base or rolling idle RPMs set too low, desired airflow startup may need to be bumped up, or RPM hunting could be idle torque spark related (or throttle). Do you see the throttle fluctuate when you are rolling in nuetral?

Although Kenandjenn4551 has more experience here.
 

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Volts and TP stay the same. I just made these changes (attached), I'll see how it works out. Warm starts are just weak, sometimes I even need to hold the pedal to get it to start, not sure if adding air alone will help or if I need to add fuel too. Oh I also leveled out the "IAT Temp Based Idle" to 704. I don't think the drive settings will do anything for the manual trans but changed things acrross the board since the stock tune had settings in there.

Tuning_Changes_Idle.JPG
 

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Try bumping up RPM to 800. If you have an aggressive cam you need more than what stock is set to.

I am assuming you are tuning NN off and have the VE table(s) dialed in. If adding air to startup does not work then you may need to increase startup injector pulse width as well.
 

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If your cold starts are fine but your warm starts are weak, it's probably related to fuel temp in the rail causing it to become lean.
Log intake temp, engine temp, inlet temp and also warm up your wideband prior, and log AFR during a cold and warm start. See what you can figure out.

If you have larger injectors, it could be that your injectors are a bit off in the tune. Particularly the startup base table 34000 and FA cold/warmup table 34210.
Of course, thats assuming that your fuel mass vs pulse width tables are correct to begin with.
 

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If your cold starts are fine but your warm starts are weak, it's probably related to fuel temp in the rail causing it to become lean.
Log intake temp, engine temp, inlet temp and also warm up your wideband prior, and log AFR during a cold and warm start. See what you can figure out.

If you have larger injectors, it could be that your injectors are a bit off in the tune. Particularly the startup base table 34000 and FA cold/warmup table 34210.
Of course, thats assuming that your fuel mass vs pulse width tables are correct to begin with.
This sounds like what is wrong with my tune. It hunts for idle when hot, but no issues with starting hot. My mods are simple - CAI, Fastman throttle, Catback, and 180 t-stat. I get 434whp and 436wtq in my 2011 392 A5. 12.369 @ 112mph best time on stock Goodyear 255/45/20 junk.

The car was tuned on a cold day (40). The place I got it tuned is long out of business. I guess there isn't a way to fix this if all I have is a Trinity (which he used just to upload the tune).

For the most part it runs fine. When it is stuck in traffic and getting hot, the idle will surge. Gets exciting if my foot isn't on the brake. I chalk it up to the car being mad because it wants to GO.
 

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This sounds like what is wrong with my tune. It hunts for idle when hot, but no issues with starting hot. My mods are simple - CAI, Fastman throttle, Catback, and 180 t-stat. I get 434whp and 436wtq in my 2011 392 A5. 12.369 @ 112mph best time on stock Goodyear 255/45/20 junk.

The car was tuned on a cold day (40). The place I got it tuned is long out of business. I guess there isn't a way to fix this if all I have is a Trinity (which he used just to upload the tune).

For the most part it runs fine. When it is stuck in traffic and getting hot, the idle will surge. Gets exciting if my foot isn't on the brake. I chalk it up to the car being mad because it wants to GO.
Contact Joshua at HHP; a vendor here. He can tune your ride. I'd make some good data logs before contacting him, as he'll use those for the tune. If you don't know how to do all of this, he'll help with that too.
 
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