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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2016 PCP Hellcat M6 w/10K miles and garaged all of the time. Basically my Sunday driver and went out to drive it over Memorial Day weekend and car would turn over but not start w/CEL. Plugged in my OBD reader and saw P0109 and P025A - air fuel trim adaption out of range or something like that. Think the root cause is Fuel Pump Control Module. Checked Fuse and fuse is good. Looked at enclosed FPCM relay and nothing looks burnt but can't tell if relay is good. Removed right side trunk trim panels and found FPCM, unplugged electrical connectors and sprayed some Deoxit into the connectors and cycled connectors in/out several times to clean contacts. Battery on tender so fully charged. Tried disconnecting battery overnight and clearing codes with OBD reader but problem continues. Don't know what to try next so reaching out to the forum for help. Can buy new FPCM for about $80 but how do I determine if that box/device is the problem?

I'm bummed the car has been flawless for four years now and to have it go bad on a holiday weekend was such a disappointment. Been meaning to post about recent mod's like installing Oracle LED Ghosted sidemarker lights and E&G Classics louvered rear window shade.

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FYI - Not sure if this might help but there was a TSB for the fuel pump connector 08-032-17. Weird that you are getting a intermittent circuit MAP error as well.

Have you walked through the diagnostics given by the chilton online manual?


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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
CT,
THANKS! Have not "walked through the diagnostics given by the chilton online manual? " as I didn't know that was an option/suggestion and exactly why I posted my question to the forum. Needed another idea/direction on how to resolve this. INTERESTING about the TSB. Any idea if a TSB like this one is eligible for free repair at the dealer even after warranty has expired? Service bulletins are not like recalls so I suspect the answer is no. The wiring/block diagram at least gives me some idea of voltages to probe for on what colored wires. The TSB show's wire positions swap on the Fuel Pump connector and I can't believe you swap them unless your replacing the fuel pump. That leads to another question do you have to drop the fuel tank on these cars to get access to the Fuel Pump on the top of the tank?

So before submitting my above comments I went to the the page that talked about the Chilton online manual and I jumped to there and logged in. My descriptions of the DTC's read by my OBD reader where based on what I saw on the screen. When I searched for P0190 on the Chilton's website for my year car the list/describe what appear to be opposite descriptions for each DTC. They have P0109 as "Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Circuit Intermittent" while P025A is "Fuel Pump Control Circuit Open" which is more or less opposite what my OBDII reader displayed. I was very surprised to see so little about this problem on Challenger Talk. A bigger Google of P0109 and Hellcat showed a lot of talk about this in Ram trucks and Chargers which is how I found the FPCM in the trunk.....but now same Google returns more info about Manifold Absolute Air Pressure sensor being the problem.

At any rate your help at least pointed me in a direction to investigate more THANKS!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ah my bad, what the difference a character makes! I miss quoted the DTC as P0109 which is a MAP sensor with what I really have which is a "U" not "P" U0109-LOST COMMUNICATION WITH FUEL PUMP CONTROL MODULE and it looks like the second code is/was "P025A-FUEL PUMP MODULE CONTROL CIRCUIT OPEN" so I'm staying in the trunk looking at the PCM for the root cause.
 

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CT,
THANKS! Have not "walked through the diagnostics given by the chilton online manual? " as I didn't know that was an option/suggestion and exactly why I posted my question to the forum. Needed another idea/direction on how to resolve this. INTERESTING about the TSB. Any idea if a TSB like this one is eligible for free repair at the dealer even after warranty has expired? Service bulletins are not like recalls so I suspect the answer is no. The wiring/block diagram at least gives me some idea of voltages to probe for on what colored wires. The TSB show's wire positions swap on the Fuel Pump connector and I can't believe you swap them unless your replacing the fuel pump. That leads to another question do you have to drop the fuel tank on these cars to get access to the Fuel Pump on the top of the tank?
If you are out of warranty dealership will charge for a TSB. As for the fuel pump, you just remove the rear seat to access it.

U0109 makes more sense...most likely you do have a bad module (hopefully chilton's has a way to diagnose it before you start throwing parts at the problem) but if you look at the wiring diagram I posted earlier it communicates directly with the fuel pump as well, hence why I brought up the TSB.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Had some time today to investigate further. 30 amp Fuel Pump Fuse definitely good. Fuel Pump Relay definitely good, removed applied 12V heard it click have continuity through the contacts. Wife energizes car and I can feel relay click in it's installed position. Only two parts left IMO Fuel Pump Control Module or Fuel Pump itself. Chilton's manual was good and I noticed a few things. My P025A code that my OBD reader says is a "Fuel Air Metering" DTC but Chilton's says it's a "Fuel Pump Control Circuit Open". I don't hear/feel any fuel pump running and Chilton says "The P062A DTC will occur if the fuel pressure is too high or too low in the system. The Fuel Pump Assembly can be failing and still produce high fuel pressure in the system when the FPCM is defaulted to 80% duty cycle. Therefore, if this DTC is not accompanied by another fuel control system DTC, and the Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor is reading correctly, the Fuel Pump Assembly is the most likely cause of this DTC. " which I don't have that P062A DTC as I think the pump is not running at all (Fuel Pump Control Circuit Open)....leading me back to the FPCM or I guess could be burned out fuel pump....but on 4 year old car with 10K miles I find hard to believe. Sensitive electronics like the FPCM are more common to fail IMO and also cheaper!

I'm wanting to probe for voltage but the connectors/wires are small and Chilton specifically throws out this CAUTION: "Do not probe the PCM harness connectors. Probing the PCM harness connectors will damage the PCM terminals resulting in poor terminal to pin connection. Install the GPEC Diagnostic Adaptor to perform the diagnosis." which I do not have.

Lastly CT's post about the TSB may not be applicable as the pictures posted do not look at all like my connections at the gas tank. On the Fuel Pump/drivers side I have an 8 pin connector with 7 wires where your picture only shows 5 wires. On the fuel return/passenger side I have a two wire connector.

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Wish I had a friend with similar year Dodge product that I could swap FPCM to see if the problem goes away. Purchase price seems to be about $80 new or buy used off Ebay at $50. Open for suggestions/input if anybody has some ideas....
 

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I work with a guy at my dealership that worked at Dodge as a master tech for 20 years. He said that code usually points to a bad FPCM. Replace it and you should be fine. We also have that code common on Hyundai Genesis and it’s always been a Fuel Pump Control Module. Causing low fuel pressure and hard starting. Will also throw CAN codes and other related dtc
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
CT, it's possible BUT IMO you wouldn't have open exposed wires/electrical connections inside the tank like your picture. Notice in the picture below from the Chilton's manual for my year car/spec/etc they show the 7-8 wire connection on the bottom which is different than the block diagram you posted for the TSB. This diagram was very helpful in that it gave the pinout for the Fuel Pump Relay and how I was able to bench test it. From there the wire color codes appear to match my installation better than what you posted. I have a fuel pressure gauge that on other cars I would connect to the fuel pressure rail over the injectors via a Schrader style valve. It's possible the fuel pump is not running because the rail is already at full/normal pressure. My thought was to check to see if there is any pressure at all on the rail. BUT with all that said recall I don't have the DTC P062A which leads me back to the FPCM which regulates the duty cycle of the Fuel Pump to maintain pressure is not turning the pump on at all. I'm leaning towards buying a new FPCM.....

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So Mondingo's input about a 20 year Master tech saying it's most likely the FPCM AND some posts I saw on Hellcat.org and another forum about U0109 = bad FPCM made me go that route. While mail order was looking to be about $80 + $10-15 shipping I went the buy local route for $120 from my stealership. Not in stock but will be here tomorrow so I'll report back ASAP if I have success after replacing the FPCM.
 

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So Mondingo's input about a 20 year Master tech saying it's most likely the FPCM AND some posts I saw on Hellcat.org and another forum about U0109 = bad FPCM made me go that route. While mail order was looking to be about $80 + $10-15 shipping I went the buy local route for $120 from my stealership. Not in stock but will be here tomorrow so I'll report back ASPA if I have success after replacing the FPCM.
Let us know how things go. Remember to disconnect the battery first before removing and or plugging the new FPCM in. After reconnecting the battery turn the key meaning push button to the on position and read for all dtc. Just in case they are still stored in PCM and didn’t clear when battery disconnected. Clear all codes. Cycle push button off and start her up. Hopefully you’ll be good to go without any issues. Keep us all posted. Good luck bud. ! 👍🏻
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So no luck here....replacing the FPCM didn't solve my problem. At the Dealer I mentioned my local Mopar Car Club by name and they gave me 20% off so was out the door right at $90 for the new FPCM. Before installing it I wanted to clear the DTC's so I powered up the car and with the back seat out thought I heard the fuel pump running. I put my hand on it and think it was vibrating but not 100% sure. Cleared the DTC's turned ignition on again but didn't hear the same sound as before, but I would think if the fuel rail was at pressure the pump wouldn't run so that almost doesn't surprise me. Pulled battery cable and swapped FPCM's, returned power still have same problem. Read the Chilton manual suggestions and lots of talk about Canbus communication failure/shorts to ground and needing to check the Powertrain Control Module first. I searched TSB's and saw several recommended flash updates for the PCM but they don't say exactly what they fix. Went back to CT's Fuel Pump connector TSB and I don't think it applies to the Hellcat. Started looking at Fuel Pumps for sale and see there are many different models used and it seems each engine has it's own model pump. Looking at Rockauto to purchase a replacement they don't even have the left side in stock yet all the other cars are available.

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I have a friend who own's an auto repair shop and is the treasurer for our local Mopar Club so I might pay him a visit tomorrow with the Chilton Printouts for U0109 and P025A asking for some input/guidance. After that I may be stuck flat bedding it to the dealer for them to use their super special dealer tools.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just throwing this out for one more piece of additional information. When things stop working in the computer world the first thing you ask is what changed. So with similar thinking what changed since the last time I drove this car.....WELL the only thing that came to mind is I installed ORACLE LED Ghosted side marker lights. In theory lights shouldn't cause a fuel pump problem but recall our cars are computers with a network communication buss. It's possible, but I highly doubt it, that the LED lights could be causing some electrical noise/interference with the buss. What got me to thinking about this is the Chilton's manual diagnostic steps for the PCM have you check battery health first and aftermarket electronics installations second before delving into the communication buss. They basically want you to eliminate any owner induced problems first.


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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The solution is a GD Hammer! So I visit my friend the owner of Tommy's Top Wrench Automotive and explain where I'm at and he's like did you try beating it. What do you mean beat it? He said cars that are NOT driven enough get stuck, you gotta beat the fuel tank or the top of the fuel pump to break free whatever might be holding it up. So I go back home skeptical but grab my rubber mallet and beat on the top of the fuel pump hat. Turn the ignition on and can hear/feel it run so I beat it some more. After about 30 seconds I don't hear the pump any more so I climb out of the back seat. I cycle the power and try again and BOOM the MF starts like nothing is wrong! OMG I can't believe my problem was I didn't beat it with a rubber mallet but that appears to have been the solution.....
 

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Damn. Now I feel bad after giving advice from a guy I work with. He said he’s seen a few go bad. But never thought you would get a code like that for a stuck fuel pump. My bad. I guess you just have to drive it more often. Glad you got it fixed though. Sorry again. Maybe that’s why he left Dodge. Lol
 

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Pump problem update: Ran to a FEMA site yesterday with my Wife to get our first Covid shots. Drive was 90 mins (70 miles) each direction and took a detour to stop for lunch. On ride back bout 40 miles from home dash said I had 38 miles left in the tank so I thought I'd make it home before having to get gas. Low fuel light just went on and I typically go another 40-50 miles before refill. 10 miles down the road fuel tank indicator went from 1/8 to E much quicker than normal. Decide this is not good and get off I95 and on exit ramp engine starts to sputter. I limp/coast it into a BP gas station and have to push it the last 10 feet to reach the pump. Fill it up, BUT where I would normally refill with 17 gallons pump turned off at 15 gallons. Tried to squeeze more in and overflow at the neck so I stopped. Hop in and try to start an engine turns over but no start. Push the car away from pumps to make room for others and try a variety of things. Cycle power, lock/unlock car, check FP fuse good, leave car in run position for a few minutes to see if it's a pump priming issue. No start.....rip out the back seat find a rock of decent mass and try beating on top of tank both sides no start. Hard to hear at a noisey gas station on the side of the road but I don't think I was hearing the pump whine at all. Could hear relays click under hood when I energize car but no pump, no CEL.

Believing the pump has finally died and 28 miles from home at 3:30 in the afternoon, decided it was time to find a flatbed home. Googled 4A towing company and found one with 4.7 out of 5 star customer reviews half between where I was and home so gave em a call. Said they would there in 90 mins so bought myself a big Fosters oil can and wife a box of wine and bag of chips and we sat and waited. Flatbed showed up at 100 mins and he delivered us home to the front door of our garage and driver helped me push it into the garage. GREAT service but it cost me $225 + $30 tip....would rather be home in my shop then at the stealership.

So the question becomes what fuel pump should I buy? OEM is like $880 for drivers side and another $350 for passenger side which if I understand the passenger side is just siphon pickup and level sensor? I saw aftermarket dual pump replacements for $1300-$1500 for making 1000+ hp but I'm pretty much bone stock. Cheap Aftermarket appears to be $100-$200 but I'm not confident they are compatible with Hellcat. I read some posts last night about the high hp dual pumps from Fore I think and Holley? Over on Hellcat.org I saw some folks have early fuel pump failures on 2016-2018 Hellcats so I'm thinking it's a more common problem and just want a new reliable pump and no more headaches like yesterday! Appreciate any success stories on fuel pump replacements 4A 2016 Hellcat.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
So maybe it's not the fuel pump.....IDK when but I got a recall to replace the catalytic converters in my car about a year ago. Dropped the car off in the morning picked it up around 5:30 - 6pm and on the drive home had a hot humid Florida thundershower. Turned on the AC defrost and nothing nada, tried regular AC nothing, blower worked but no cooling only heating. Barely make it home with windows all fogged up and me wiping the windshield off ever other minute so I could see through it and get home in the pouring rain. Fortunately home's only about 15 minutes from the dealer. Text the service advisor who had already left for the day that my AC is not working and it was working that morning when I brought the car in because I was using it! She replied for me to bring the car back the next morning which I did and the problem still existed so she immediately got a tech on it. I waited and after about an hour and half she came out and said it was bad HVAC relay and to be patient because they wanted to charge me $75 for the relay and $125 for the hour of shop time to discover and replace the relay. She like me thought that was absurd to first have that sorta failure on a 3.5 year old car AND it was working when I brought it in for the recall so she wanted the dealer to good will it which they did. I told her I was willing to be fair and split the cost and pay half but to her credit she got it all covered. A month or two later my horn stops working. After diagnosing it myself as not a bad fuse, wiring good, I notice the horn relay is the exact same size as the HVAC and over two spots in the electrical box so I swap the horn relay with the HVAC relay and boom horn works!

I wasn't going to pay $75 for a relay from the Stealership so I Googled the markings on the relay Omnron 2191C and low and behold a pack of three on Amazon was $12 so I bought em. Put one in the horn and put the other two in the glove box. Now hindsight is always 20/20 but when my fuel pump exhibited problems in the past I replaced the fuel pump control module and it didn't solve the problem. A rubber mallet banging on the fuel pump hat seemed to loosen it up and it began working. So yesterday's problem was met with a pounding rock on the fuel pump hat and a fuse check with no love. Today cleaning up the mess in the back seat with my shop vac and front floor mats I saw the pack of relays in the glove box......NO It couldn't be another relay problem. Low-n-behold the Fuel Pump Relay is the EXACT same Omron relay so I swap out the OEM one that was in there with one of my new ones and boom I could hear the pump running and the car started right up!

So now IDK what to do proactively replace the pump as I'm lead to believe they fail from low use, ethanol gas, moisture in the atomosphere OR follow the pattern that relays go bad, probably also from the humidity which I opened the bad horn one and the coil was fine but the contacts were arc'd to hell and black not conducting.....
 
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