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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, so I installed a vortech kit in my 6.1L, install was pretty easy and like everybody else says, the instructions can be a little better. I want to thank flattop who probably saved me from blowing my motor up, more on this in a few, thanks mgkenny for the pictures on parts of the install, helped a ton, and lukester for your feedback, you guys all made my install easier and better then calling vortech for help.
Now when the car first fired up, everything sounded good, ran good, smooth, etc. I drove her around town to make sure everything was running smooth, never boosted because I had no gauges yet and did not have clue what my AF was reading at. didnt want to risk it, as I DO NOT TRUST THE VORTECH TUNE, So I drove her around town for the next few days from 1500-2800 rpms, stayed under 3k never boosting because that is where it gets violent! Now talking to flat top, he helped me install a cheap fuel gauge just for monitering. when the install was done, everything was checked and double and triple checked, oil psi, fuel pressure, checked plugs, everything was good. all of a sudden the 3rd day after already putting on about 100 miles, one morning it did not want to start, could not figure it out, checked everything, after the 4th or 5th try I connected the fuel pressure gauge and pressure was at 58-60psi, went to try again and it fired up! weird? wtf? Car ran good and sounded good. by the 4th day my gauges had arrived and immediatley went to get them installed, again the next morning the car did not start again, turned over but did not start, disconnected the battery and reconnected and fired up, wtf? hmmm weird. so I thought I was getting closer to the problem, drove over to the shop, got gauges installed and went to start it and sure enough not starting. Now at this point, before I do anything, like disconnect battery, fuses, etc, I connected the cheap fuel pressure gauge right off the back to check for fuel pressure and sure enough, 5 to 8,9, 10 psi, at times 0 psi!!!wtf!? I connected the stock fuel pump direct, just to check if BAP had failed and sure enough it fired up with stock pump, reconnected BAP and no fuel pressure, connected stock pump direct and fires right up! at that point at cold temps and idle she was at 14.0-14.5, I had to drive her home, could not stay at the shop, I was about 2 miles away, I drove home off to the right of the road at 5 to 10 mph, this really sucked, watching my Af closely as it would rise to 15-15.5 at times!!!! But stayed at 14.5 range, I was furious! pissed! got home everything good and parked her. I will personally be delivering the BAP back to Vortech on thursday at 9am as soon as they open. I am so pissed off, this could have been a hell of lot worse! speedy may be right, as running 2 walbro fuel pumps may be best! Now flat top may have saved me as he told me, do not play around until you got gauges, good tune, datalogging, etc, and gauges installed and you can check Af mixture and he also hooked me up with connecting a $19.00 oil pressure gauge and rig it, just for monitering, not for permanent usage, just simple monitering and sure enough that gauge and AF gauge saved me from a catistrophic failure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cursin:

I do have an appointment with Adam at ST motosports for full tune next thursday the 5th. But until then she is not moving from my driveway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Sorry for the mis spelling, I was so upset writing this post, i just hit submit and no spell check! lol.
 

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How did you wire the BAP? Did you solder the connections or did you crimp?
Also just an FYI, when the BAP fuse blows the car wont start, which is what probably happened. In this case you are not in any danger of running lean, as the car will not run, of course driving without the bap is another story. Hope you get it sorted out, and be careful to make good soldered connections on the fuel wiring...this is very important!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
fuse is fine, I even went up to a 25amp fuse to be safe on the fuel pump. checked wires and wires are soldered perfect, I did a extra job on the solder, they are not coming apart. Also if connections were bad, it would not start up when I close the loop up front with orange and red wire to connect stock pump direct. as soon as the BAP is connected it wont start. i am sacred to even put a new one on and it fails again, this time while boosting!
 

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sorry to hear that Jamaya.
for me it definitely looks like the BAP sensor or the MSD fuel pump booster (red box which you wired in between the cabling to the fuel pump).
Have you checked the voltage at the fuel pump when in idle and when reving her up to 5000? You should see an increase of the voltage at the fuel pump. That's how you can doublecheck if the MSD fuel pump booster is working like it should.

Also double check all of your vacuum lines under the hood. As these are just small lines with small connections it could cause troubles as when the vacuum is not right the MSD box will not measure the correct values.

Keep us updated!
 

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Yep close call. Youll be ok at 14.5 smoothing down the road. That part is normal. Youll also see it 17 18 af when your out of the throttle. No problems there. When you go WOT Then it better drop to 11.4 and at a fast rate. Youll have it straight soon, once on the drums.
I did go with the KB BAP though. I like my adjustable Hobb switch too. Vac line is 6inches long to the hobbs. Unlike the MSD.
Just sent you an e mail also JAMAYA chat soon.
FlatTop
 

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This is exactly why I don't like those things. Way overly complicated with several failure points and it's just too critical of a component on a boosted application. One failure at WOT and your motor is toast. Luv My RT and I fought with his on several different occasions and now he's getting a new motor. Not saying his failure was the BAP, but we had problems with it way more than we should have.

Now a couple things.

1. Idling and cruising around your AFR should be around 14.7 give or take a tick. That is completely normal. Off throttle it'll go to 20 - 22 or so while coasting.

2. Put the 20A fuse back in your fuse box for the fuel pump. Fuses are designed to blow at a set point (20A) before the wiring melts. The wiring is not rated for 25A and could cause a fire having a higher rated fuse in there than designed.

The stock wiring to the fuel pump connections is like 16ga (15ga I think exactly but that's a weird size). With my dual pump setup the wiring would get warm to the touch, but oddly it was warmer at idle than any other time. Not what I expected, but I confirmed it on the dyno.

That's why I went with the upgraded wiring harness when I put in my FORE dual pump fuel hat.

It has heavier gauge wire and relay activation. If any component fails the car won't run at all, which saves the motor in the event of said failure.

It's a much better system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Talked to Vortech and they were not blaming the BAP at first, they still thought that something was wired wrong or something was wrong with the car.
I dont know what else I can tell them. If I close the loop on the plug to connect the stock fuel pump direct it starts no problem, if I connect the BAP, it doesnt start. I checked the fuel pump fuse and it is fine. Speedy, I went back to a 20amp for fuel pump, so all good there. I checked voltage, and it has power coming into the BAP, but no Power coming out of the BAP.....so I mean really, vortech still didnt want to believe it was the BAP?
Had to talk to them for a bit so they can finally say...okay, send it in and we will test it and if it is bad, we will send you a new one. So they still doubt it is the BAP. Yes they can fail, at my job we deal with MSD alot, we run similar set ups in side by side vehicles, yamaha rhino's, rzr's, kawasaki teryx's, and we see them fail time to time, dont happen to all, but 1 out of every 10 seem to fail. We repalce it with a new one and good to go. MSD is real good about warranty's, so I dont know why Vortech is not quick to warranty, I am sure MSD will take care of it on their end, with no hassle. Just get me a new BAP and move on, done. I Have yet to see one fail twice in the same vehicle, but it is not impossible. With my luck it will be me!:smokin:
 

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Nice save! Looks like FlatTop's giving you good advice on the Vortech.

I've seen a lot of folks run the BAP w/o problems but lately it seems we've been seeing more of them. I figure if you've got a trigger whereby if the BAP isn't working, you can't start the car or it'll shut down if it's running, that'll go a long way towards saving one from catastrophic failure with that setup. I run the FORE hat with dual high flow Walbros and independent harness but I think that may be overkill for your setup.

Keep us posted and best of luck. Once you get her right and Adam dials her in, you're gonna be a happy camper.

HemiSam
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have another BAP coming UPS tomorrow, I paid for this one to get it here tomorrow, once they get my bad one back tomorrow with them, they will refund the money back. keep ya guys posted.
 

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Jamaya, did you go with the KB bap or stay with the MSD unit ? I have heard,, customer service was not so pleasent at Vortech. From more than just one person.!
As competitive as the blower business is, youd think they would be more warrenty service friendly.
Once you get that SC straightened out bro, lets do your Stall TC. :)
FT
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
flat top,
I think the stall TC is next on the list. I wanted to go with the KB but Tim was out of the shop today and really i just want to get her done, and not have to wait until Tim is back and then wait for ship times. I figured there is a lot of guys running MSD BAP with no problems, I must have just got a bad one. Speedlogix guys said they got plenty of guys running MSD's with no problems. I just hope I am not kicking myself in the ass later for this. But I should be okay hopefully.
One other thing that leaves me scratching my head:scratchhead: is where the instructions from Vortech says to mount the BAP MSD is right under the passenger side section under the plastic outer dash by the hood, it looks like during car washes it would get water on it all the time and the BAP dont look that sealed. I mean is this where everybody mounted theres?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
got the new BAP today from Vortech and she fired right up no issues, shut it off and restarted it about 3 times and no issue or stall, engine sounds good and plenty of fuel pressure at 60psi.
 

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got the new BAP today from Vortech and she fired right up no issues, shut it off and restarted it about 3 times and no issue or stall, engine sounds good and plenty of fuel pressure at 60psi.
Glad things worked out bro. Sent you a PM, your buddy is good to go for the 5th with you if that works for him:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Everything all good for now, I will let you guys know the final numbers next thursday when I get back from Adams shop at ST.
Thanks for all your guys help.
 

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congrats on solving...
hey, if you have some time and are bored I'd be interested in the Voltage you see at the fuel pump when you're in boost (WOT).
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Lukester,
I did get a chance to get a volt meter back there when I was re checking all my wires, it did shoot up to 14v-15.8v, but I didnt WOT it, it was just up to about 4,800 to 5,000 rpms, so it was shooting up with throttle, I am sure it would hit 17v at WOT at 6,000rpms.
 
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