Dodge Challenger Forum banner

21 - 32 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Like I wrote I replace -- well for years have it replaced as I no longer work on my cars -- the coolant every 4 years or so. This is more than every 30K miles, at least with my previous cars. With my previous cars I put 20K miles or more on my cars per year so a 4 year coolant change would have the mileage closer to 80K miles than 30K miles.

Sometimes the change was determined by fate too rather than the calendar. In one case at night I hit some road debris which took out a radiator. The repair consisted of a new radiator and of course new coolant to replace that which ran out the busted radiator.

With all due respect not every pump is failing at 30000 miles or less.

If you want to use an aftermarket water pump by all means go ahead. My 2nd hand info over the years is the aftermarket pumps are no better than the factory and in some cases are inferior. If the water pump in my Hellcat fails I'll stick with a Dodge sourced water pump. If the car is in or out of warranty. I have no desire to use my car to try to find a suitable substitute for a Dodge water pump.
I hear what you are saying and definitely respect your opinion....
However I can tell you that the replacement pump I used had a noticeably larger bearing with a much beefier housing surrounding it than the original...
I totally regret now not taking pix of the difference because it was a huge difference...
It seemed obvious to me when I saw it that it might be a remedy to the smaller bearing in the factory pump...

Much respect... :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,823 Posts
I hear what you are saying and definitely respect your opinion....
However I can tell you that the replacement pump I used had a noticeably larger bearing with a much beefier housing surrounding it than the original...
I totally regret now not taking pix of the difference because it was a huge difference...
It seemed obvious to me when I saw it that it might be a remedy to the smaller bearing in the factory pump...

Much respect... :)
Ok the front bearing is better. But the same load is applied to the rear bearing as before and the rear bearing is I suspect the same size.

So the front bearing can better withstand the load but the smaller rear bearing then becomes the weak point.

One would think if one wanted to offer a better water pump both bearings would be made larger.

Added: And the bearings are only as good as their seals and the seals are in some way dependent upon the quality of the coolant which has an additive package to help seal life.

To help preserve seal life the coolant should be replaced periodically. Otherwise being "lifetime" coolant means it lasts only as long as the weakest part of the cooling lasts, which is almost certainly going to be a water pump bearing which will be "taken" out by a leaking seal.

In the case of one of my previous cars the water pump failed at 172K miles. Noisy bearing was a clue. There was no leak. The coolant changes apparently kept the seals in good health.

With another car while I also replaced the coolant on my schedule the water pump failed earlier, over 100K miles but many miles over 100K. The sign of a bad water pump was a leak.

The leak arose because I suspect that while I changed the coolant the previous owner in the 6 years he owned the car and even though he put just under 10K miles on the car never changed the coolant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Ok the front bearing is better. But the same load is applied to the rear bearing as before and the rear bearing is I suspect the same size.

So the front bearing can better withstand the load but the smaller rear bearing then becomes the weak point.

One would think if one wanted to offer a better water pump both bearings would be made larger.
Maybe both ARE bigger...
All I can tell you is that visually....the front is tons bigger and I would love someone to post a pic of there old pump front bearing and maybe if my friend has one in stock I can get a picture of that for comparison...

The other thing I know for sure is that MY PUMP failed at the front bearing...see the attached video...

Look...I am not here to argue with you or anybody else...
I shared my experience and that is all I set out to do...

Other than comparing pix of said bearing I am done with this argument sir...

 

·
Registered
2019 Sublime Shaker and 2010 Detonator Yellow R/T Classic
Joined
·
1,870 Posts
Well, I can tell you in my personal experience that my water pump failed on my 2015 "Shaker" R/T at around 25,000 miles. It was the bearings and on closer inspection there was water leaking onto the top of the pump from the shaker that drained right on it (from rain/car wash). There was clearly a water stain all around the bearing enclosure, coincidence? Hmm, of all the challengers I owned, with different mileage, no others have ever failed. I researched water pump failures and found a large number of those that failed were also shaker hood challengers. Interesting....
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,714 Posts
I was poking around, looking up water pumps, prices - shocked that the Mopar pump is $242!! and the Gates turned up @ $78 on one of the sites

BTW list for Mopar pump is $400 that's nuts for what you get

Yes the front drain hole of a Shaker drips on the water pump pulley - but others that have failed have been non-Shaker models as well

I still maintain the crazy high tensioner (and a not-so great bearing design) contribute to the problem
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
596 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
I was poking around, looking up water pumps, prices - shocked that the Mopar pump is $242!! and the Gates turned up @ $78 on one of the sites

BTW list for Mopar pump is $400 that's nuts for what you get

Yes the front drain hole of a Shaker drips on the water pump pulley - but others that have failed have been non-Shaker models as well

I still maintain the crazy high tensioner (and a not-so great bearing design) contribute to the problem
Yikes! Really glad I got that extended warranty now!

Why did Dodge use a substandard water pump design on an otherwise solidly built car?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,714 Posts
Yikes! Really glad I got that extended warranty now!

Why did Dodge use a substandard water pump design on an otherwise solidly built car?
it comes down to cost - when the pump was designed for RWD LX cars it probably hasn't changed much.
 

·
Registered
2015 RT 5.7 M6
Joined
·
5,870 Posts
I bought my replacement pumps for my challenger and JGC from RockAuto...~$40 ea. When my pump failed on the JGC for the 2nd time, the bearings did not bounce around like that but the whole shaft wiggled causing the impeller to hit the housing.

Pump failure noise.

Pump removed from engine.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,714 Posts
But won't that cost them more money in the long run if they keep having to replace these pumps under warranty?
at some point, it will trigger a redesign

Since the powertrain warranty was 5 years/ 100k through 2015 and from 2016 forward 5 years / 60k on powertrain - water pumps would be warranty coverage items.

With the failure happening between 16 - 30sK, there's going to be a few that turn up as warranty items. And in-field repairs cost more since FCA covers the cost of the pump and labor rate reimbursement to dealer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,823 Posts
Well, I can tell you in my personal experience that my water pump failed on my 2015 "Shaker" R/T at around 25,000 miles. It was the bearings and on closer inspection there was water leaking onto the top of the pump from the shaker that drained right on it (from rain/car wash). There was clearly a water stain all around the bearing enclosure, coincidence? Hmm, of all the challengers I owned, with different mileage, no others have ever failed. I researched water pump failures and found a large number of those that failed were also shaker hood challengers. Interesting....
At the risk of being called argumentative the stain was from coolant that leaked out due a water pump seal failure. Any bit of water that might run down on to the accessory drive system including the water pump does not affect the water pump or any of the other accessory drive hardware for that matter or we'd all be reading posts about failed alternators, A/C compressors, power steering pumps, all arising from exposure to the rain water.

If the water pump seal can retain hot coolant under some pressure it can certainly withstand a bit of cool rain water and under no pressure that happens to flow past on its way to the ground.

The problem is just a bad water pump. And while some like to blame the pump as being too small or in some way inadequate the explanation is just a marginal component is to blame. Otherwise all vehicles would experience water pump failure as they all subject the water pump to the same operating conditions, the same stresses arising from the belt tension and other things.

While it doesn't make the expeirence any less unpleasant the failures arise from most likely just a bad batch of marginal bearings which can be due to a shortcoming in the metallurgy of the bearing balls/races, a manufacturing problem, bad material or design of the cage, seal material, even the wrong grease or too much (or too little) of it.
 
21 - 32 of 32 Posts
Top