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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've tackled some pretty nasty water spots. These are unbelievable. Clay bar. Meguires step 1 with a buffer (I've got one of those porter cable units). vinegar and water. dish soap. No luck. I am convinced that they are under the clear coat. I have a smooth glass like surface. Anyone else with that problem? Please let me know. Thanks.

:guiness:
 

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I've got the exact same issue. Bet you have a black car. I took mine to the dealer and Chrysler denied a warranty claim. They said it was acid rain???? Crazy thing is that I have 4 other cars without this problem. I've gotten most all the spots out using Miguires cleaner amd Zymol wax. Also, my hood had it the worse,took the car to a detail shop and they did a small area using a buffer. The part that they did came out did came out perfect. I have picture, if I knew how I would add them to this post. Good Luck with getting them out.
 

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Ditto here. I believe I have something similar to what you are describing. I find myself washing the car all the time now. It kind of drys weird very hard to explain. Never seen anything like this before...
 

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I've got the exact same issue. Bet you have a black car. I took mine to the dealer and Chrysler denied a warranty claim. They said it was acid rain???? Crazy thing is that I have 4 other cars without this problem. I've gotten most all the spots out using Miguires cleaner amd Zymol wax. Also, my hood had it the worse,took the car to a detail shop and they did a small area using a buffer. The part that they did came out did came out perfect. I have picture, if I knew how I would add them to this post. Good Luck with getting them out.

If the detail shop got the spots out, it was in the clear coat. You cannot get spots out that are in the paint without removing the clear coat.

The spots could be acid rain or hard water spots and may not have been cause during your ownership (meaning while the dealer had it before delivery). if it did happen during your ownership it is without a doubt an issue cased by the elements.

I would get a DA buffer and some Meguiars products (like M02 fine cut cleaner or Scratch X2) and go to town. Good thing is, with a DA buffer, and running speed of less then 4 you will not have a chance to hurt the clear coat let alone paint.

Good luck and if you go the route of a buffer, keep us posted!
 

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I've tackled some pretty nasty water spots. These are unbelievable. Clay bar. Meguires step 1 with a buffer (I've got one of those porter cable units). vinegar and water. dish soap. No luck. I am convinced that they are under the clear coat. I have a smooth glass like surface. Anyone else with that problem? Please let me know. Thanks.

:guiness:
Have you tried using a DA buffer with some fine or super fine cut polish? I would give that a try since the etching the water spots have done are BELOW level and a clay bar will not get them out. You need to polish them out with a DA.
 

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I had severe water spots and peculiar water staining on my Challenger (black) that wasn't necessarily visible until the car was being washed and dried (all over the paint, trim and glass). I was able to get rid of 95% of the problem using a dedicated water spot remover (Chemical Guys WSR in this case). What little remained was dealt with during a light correction step (using a DA).

Personally, I prefer to always try non-abrasive techniques/products first for these types of issues. Even on new cars it can be beneficial to use a good decontamination product like Valugard ABC to help remove ferrous deposits, old product, residue and other deposits (both visible and not so visible).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I went after the spots yesterday with the porter cable and the Meguires Paint Cleaner. Many hours later it looks like some progress was made. I did end up using some turtle wax heavy duty paint cleaner on the roof which (messed) it up bad (hazing, dimples in paint). The spots are gone.

I was able to fix the hazing for the most part after a few runs with the Meguirres. And the dimpling was fixed by a little time in the hot and rubbing from below. Holy moly what a mess.

This will be the last black car. But it's looking real good.
 

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dunno sounds more like a defect in the paint than a water spot under the clear coat.
Not even sure how that could happen unless it was raining in the paint booth
 

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I went after the spots yesterday with the porter cable and the Meguires Paint Cleaner. Many hours later it looks like some progress was made. I did end up using some turtle wax heavy duty paint cleaner on the roof which (messed) it up bad (hazing, dimples in paint). The spots are gone.

I was able to fix the hazing for the most part after a few runs with the Meguirres. And the dimpling was fixed by a little time in the hot and rubbing from below. Holy moly what a mess.

This will be the last black car. But it's looking real good.

Not sure if that turtle wax junk is meant to be used with a machine. never use a product unless it says it is safe for use with a buffer. In any case, I am glad it seems to be getting better now.
 

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I went after the spots yesterday with the porter cable and the Meguires Paint Cleaner. Many hours later it looks like some progress was made. I did end up using some turtle wax heavy duty paint cleaner on the roof which (messed) it up bad (hazing, dimples in paint). The spots are gone.

I was able to fix the hazing for the most part after a few runs with the Meguirres. And the dimpling was fixed by a little time in the hot and rubbing from below. Holy moly what a mess.

This will be the last black car. But it's looking real good.
….the problem is that you are using products that are simply not suited for this particular task. Paint cleaners are usually that. …..chemical cleaners with little or no abrasive qualities and not really meant for any sort of real correction (more for light oxidation, removal of previous products/light contamination and perhaps removal of minor swirls). The Turtle Wax product you used may have been more of a compound. The results you described sound exactly what you might expect from a heavier cut product like that. ….some of those are almost literally rocks in a bottle.


My suggestion is still a decon product like I mentioned previously. However, since it appears you’ve already chosen your initial direction I would recommend you ditch the two products you are using now. Instead, I would suggest using (as an off-the-shelf solution) Meguiars Ultimate Compound and Meguiars Swirl-X. ….the latter being the less aggressive of the two.

What pad(s) are you using with your PC (manufacturer, color and diameter)? Is your polisher the 7424 and if so, is it the “XP” version or v1 (the previous model)?

Above all, I would strongly recommend you do a test section before proceeding with the rest of the vehicle. Start by taping off a ~1’x1’ area of an affected panel. This will be your test area to find the most effective product/pad combination to tackle the spots. Work this area until you are satisfied with the result and are comfortable with your process. ….pull the car out into the sun and or make sure you are working with adequate lighting (halogen worklamps, etc.). This will save you frustration, time and effort in the long run. Start with the Swirl-x first and then move up to the Ultimate Compound if needed (followed by the Swirl-X as a finishing polish).

The fact that you are seeing an affect on the spots leads me to believe they are etching and/or stains on the surface of the clear coat. With the right pad and polish combination you should get much better results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Not sure if that turtle wax junk is meant to be used with a machine. never use a product unless it says it is safe for use with a buffer. In any case, I am glad it seems to be getting better now.
Good advice. Thank you. Today, I have to say that it's got to the point where I can see etching in the clearcoat. Which suggests to me that there was some kind of heavy duty polymer or some kind of coating done at the dealer. (I should have just asked them but for dislike of runaround I didn't bother.) Anyway, a few more pads and several hours and it should be good to go. I need to find the best pad for the portercable for water spots with instructions (setting 4-5 or 5.5 etc) using Meguirres #1 paint cleaner (somehow I have accumulated 3 75% full bottles over the past few years):scratchhead:.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
:redcap:
….the problem is that you are using products that are simply not suited for this particular task. Paint cleaners are usually that. …..chemical cleaners with little or no abrasive qualities and not really meant for any sort of real correction (more for light oxidation, removal of previous products/light contamination and perhaps removal of minor swirls). The Turtle Wax product you used may have been more of a compound. The results you described sound exactly what you might expect from a heavier cut product like that. ….some of those are almost literally rocks in a bottle.

My suggestion is still a decon product like I mentioned previously. However, since it appears you’ve already chosen your initial direction I would recommend you ditch the two products you are using now. Instead, I would suggest using (as an off-the-shelf solution) Meguiars Ultimate Compound and Meguiars Swirl-X. ….the latter being the less aggressive of the two.

What pad(s) are you using with your PC (manufacturer, color and diameter)? Is your polisher the 7424 and if so, is it the “XP” version or v1 (the previous model)?

Above all, I would strongly recommend you do a test section before proceeding with the rest of the vehicle. Start by taping off a ~1’x1’ area of an affected panel. This will be your test area to find the most effective product/pad combination to tackle the spots. Work this area until you are satisfied with the result and are comfortable with your process. ….pull the car out into the sun and or make sure you are working with adequate lighting (halogen worklamps, etc.). This will save you frustration, time and effort in the long run. Start with the Swirl-x first and then move up to the Ultimate Compound if needed (followed by the Swirl-X as a finishing polish).

The fact that you are seeing an affect on the spots leads me to believe they are etching and/or stains on the surface of the clear coat. With the right pad and polish combination you should get much better results.
Oh that's good advice too. So the pad I am using is just a cheap (cotton?) one from OSH that covers the sponge like PC unit (non velcro). I had tried a wool pad but it didn't get anywhere with what I considered a normal effort (last year). I need some advice here.

I am doing it in full shade in the garage with several lights (200w of flo., plus 200w+ more various direct fixtures, i can get an angle pretty quick, asd all of the spots are on top).

Not sure on the PC model, it's a 7424, says version 2 by the serial number. I picked it up about a couple years ago.

I am open to using something more effective for sure. Don't have a lot of money to spend on stuff that doesn't work. Your further advice is and would be appreciated! I don't have any time to spend (work full time, school full time, 4 kids (two teens), dog, 2 cats wife, good grief). Please advise!
 

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:redcap:

Oh that's good advice too. So the pad I am using is just a cheap (cotton?) one from OSH that covers the sponge like PC unit (non velcro). I had tried a wool pad but it didn't get anywhere with what I considered a normal effort (last year). I need some advice here.

I am doing it in full shade in the garage with several lights (200w of flo., plus 200w+ more various direct fixtures, i can get an angle pretty quick, asd all of the spots are on top).

Not sure on the PC model, it's a 7424, says version 2 by the serial number. I picked it up about a couple years ago.

I am open to using something more effective for sure. Don't have a lot of money to spend on stuff that doesn't work. Your further advice is and would be appreciated! I don't have any time to spend (work full time, school full time, 4 kids (two teens), dog, 2 cats wife, good grief). Please advise!
In a nutshell, I would suggest purchasing a Velcro backing plate, two pads and the products I mentioned. A plate will set you back ~$13 - $16 depending on the size you decide on (I wouldn't recommend larger than 5" for that unit). The pads are about $8 a piece for 5.5" and maybe a bit less for 4" CCS Lake Country's.

I'll put together some links tomorrow that will hopefully help (I'm on my tablet right now). ....including where you can source these items. All together I would guess you would be looking at ~$60 for the backing plate, a couple of pads, Meguiars UC and Swirl-X. I would suggest M205 as a finishing polish but that would bump the cost up further.
 

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A follow up to my above post….

I wanted to start off by saying that I also have a PC 7424 that I have been using for years. The “XP” version came out a couple of years ago and is a bit more powerful of a machine than the original version I have (essentially looks the same though). In my experience, this unit is best coupled with 5.5” or even 4” spot pads. Anything larger than that (at least in my case), correction takes longer.

With the PC, the “orbit” of the head is forced while the rotation is more “cutch like” (for lack of a better term). In other words, if you apply enough pressure, the pad will stall (rotation will stop) and all the head will do is jiggle/orbit. ….introduce a larger pad and the chance of this occurring will increase (more surface area = more friction = more chance the pad will stop rotating or slow down). I have not had the chance to use the “XP” version and I have seen some reputable folks recommend 6.5” pads for those. However, I have also seen others who still claim those will tend to bog them down. Personally, I would stick with 5.5” (with a 5” backing plate) if you’re undecided. You can always go to a larger set up down the road and still use the smaller pads for tighter areas. I retired my PC a while back when I purchased my Flex 3401 (a more stout machine). I still use the PC for smaller areas with my 4” pads.

Enough rambling…. I put together a few links (below) that I thought might help you. These are from my “Detailing Library” (a collection of links) I had posted a few years ago on a couple of other sites I frequent. Most of the links should still be valid although I will admit I haven’t gone through them for over a year. I placed four asterisks in front of the links I thought were most relevant to your situation. The others are just ones I believe you would still benefit from however:



Paint Polishing/Correction/Repair

General
Automotive Paint Repair Clinic by David Bynon
Cleaning Your Paint by Car Care Specialties
Cobweb Swirls vs Rotary Buffer Swirls by Mike Phillips
How much paint are you removing. by Superior Shine
How To Remove Water Spots, Compounding Haze and Paint Defects by Properautocare.com
****How to tape-off a car by Mike Phillips
How to test for a clear coat or single stage paint system by Mike Phillips
How To Restore Dull, Oxidized Paint by Properautocare.com
****How to do a Test Spot by Mike Phillips
Over Polishing Your Car by David Bynon
Paint Satisfaction Insurance by Lynn Matthews
Polishing Your Car's Paint To Perfection by David Bynon
Removing swirls, scratches and water spots by Mike Phillips
Some conversation between Kevin Brown and Barry Theal by bufferbarry & Kevin Brown
Swirl Marks: How they get there, how to remove them. by Kevin Ferrell
Swirl Marks - A Detailer`s and Customer`s Nightmare by Kevin Ferrell
The Clearcoat Failure Photo Archive by Mike Phillips
What it means to remove a scratch out of anything... by Mike Phillips
What it means to remove swirls, scratches and water spots out of automotive clear coats by Mike Phillips

by Hand (specific)
How To Remove Swirls By Hand by Mike Phillips
How To Remove a Bird Dropping Etching by Hand using M105 Ultra Cut Compound by Mike Phillips
How to remove a defect by hand with ScratchX by Mike Phillips
Test - Swirl Removal By Hand by Dave KG

by Machine (specific)
Best Practice - Avoid buffing on top of body lines and edges by Mike Phillips
Buffing Pads by Kevin Ferrell
****Cleaning Your Pad On The Fly by Mike Phillips
****Dual Action Orbital Polishing Guide by Autogeek
Fight or Flight Method for Gaging Surface Temperature by Mike Phillips
How to choose the right polisher for your detailing project by Mike Phillips added 12/15/09
****VIDEOHow to Remove Swirls with the PC7424XPby Mike Phillips
Machine Photos - Rotary Buffer - DA Polisher - Orbital Buffer by Mike Phillips
****Using the Porter Cable 7424 Car Polisher by David Bynon

Product Guides
Difference between Super Micro Abrasives technology (non-diminishing) & Diminishing Abrasive technology (an MOL forum discussion. See post # 6 for explanation)
How to remove a defect by hand with ScratchX by Mike Phillips
Scratch Removed using Ultimate Compound by Mike Phillips
The Definitive ScratchX Thread Collection by Mike Phillips
****The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you! by Mike Phillips
****The SMAT PACK - Everything you ever wanted to know about Meguiar's SMAT products... by Mike Phillips

Charts
Lake Country DA Foam Chart
Pads Compared & Explained w/Printable Charts by properautocare.com
Product Abrasiveness Chart by Autogeek
Very Comprehensive Compound Chart by Autogeek
 

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Hello guys... I am sick to my stomach that I have to post on here, but ran across your post and am having a similar problem. I JUST got my black SRT8 Challenger delivered to me on Saturday 7/30/11 and within minutes of coming off the carrier I noticed what appear to be water spots on the hood, roof, trunk lid, and even on the glass. The car is a brand new, never titled 2009 with 420 miles which I purchased from a wholesaler from Ebay who bought it at auction from a Dodge dealer in Payson, AZ. I washed the car thoroughly to make sure it wasn't something that could be easily removed and it's not. I do not trust myself with any type of wax other than a McGuiar's spray on wax to not mess something up. I did take it to a local body shop that I trust yesterday and they thought it may be acid rain and recommended I take it to my local Dodge dealer, but they also mentioned using clay bar? but thought that if it were acid rain that it will eventually show up again and/or I could have continued problems throughout my ownership of the car and that it was best to take it to Dodge. So I took it to my local Dodge dealer...the head guy over warranties looked at and wasn't certain what exactly was the cause, but said he would have to get his district manager involved (who only is in town 1 day a month), but wouldn't know when that would be. In the meantime he suggested that I contact Chrysler directly and start a claim. I did that and am waiting for a case manager to get back with me. My worry other than having to get my brand new car painted and it never being right, is that Chrysler will deny the claim (after reading what one of the earlier guys posted on this thread) and I don't want to keep calling it "acid rain" if that is something they typically deny vs. water spots underneath the clear coat or whatever type of paint malfunction.

Guys this is making me sick...this is my dream car and having to deal with this is killing me. Ultimately I believe I could send it back to the guys I bought it from and they would take it, but I would be out the $850 it cost to ship it here, don't really have another car to drive at the moment, and won't ever find another one like this for the price I got it for. I appreciate whatever help you can provide with the paint and dealing with warranty issues with Chrysler.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hello guys... I am sick to my stomach that I have to post on here, but ran across your post and am having a similar problem. I JUST got my black SRT8 Challenger delivered to me on Saturday 7/30/11 and within minutes of coming off the carrier I noticed what appear to be water spots on the hood, roof, trunk lid, and even on the glass. The car is a brand new, never titled 2009 with 420 miles which I purchased from a wholesaler from Ebay who bought it at auction from a Dodge dealer in Payson, AZ. I washed the car thoroughly to make sure it wasn't something that could be easily removed and it's not. I do not trust myself with any type of wax other than a McGuiar's spray on wax to not mess something up. I did take it to a local body shop that I trust yesterday and they thought it may be acid rain and recommended I take it to my local Dodge dealer, but they also mentioned using clay bar? but thought that if it were acid rain that it will eventually show up again and/or I could have continued problems throughout my ownership of the car and that it was best to take it to Dodge. So I took it to my local Dodge dealer...the head guy over warranties looked at and wasn't certain what exactly was the cause, but said he would have to get his district manager involved (who only is in town 1 day a month), but wouldn't know when that would be. In the meantime he suggested that I contact Chrysler directly and start a claim. I did that and am waiting for a case manager to get back with me. My worry other than having to get my brand new car painted and it never being right, is that Chrysler will deny the claim (after reading what one of the earlier guys posted on this thread) and I don't want to keep calling it "acid rain" if that is something they typically deny vs. water spots underneath the clear coat or whatever type of paint malfunction.

Guys this is making me sick...this is my dream car and having to deal with this is killing me. Ultimately I believe I could send it back to the guys I bought it from and they would take it, but I would be out the $850 it cost to ship it here, don't really have another car to drive at the moment, and won't ever find another one like this for the price I got it for. I appreciate whatever help you can provide with the paint and dealing with warranty issues with Chrysler.

Thanks
Please keep us updated. Thank you and good luck. I am ordering the pads and backing plate to try that route.
 

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Hello guys... I am sick to my stomach that I have to post on here, but ran across your post and am having a similar problem. I JUST got my black SRT8 Challenger delivered to me on Saturday 7/30/11 and within minutes of coming off the carrier I noticed what appear to be water spots on the hood, roof, trunk lid, and even on the glass. The car is a brand new, never titled 2009 with 420 miles which I purchased from a wholesaler from Ebay who bought it at auction from a Dodge dealer in Payson, AZ. I washed the car thoroughly to make sure it wasn't something that could be easily removed and it's not. I do not trust myself with any type of wax other than a McGuiar's spray on wax to not mess something up. I did take it to a local body shop that I trust yesterday and they thought it may be acid rain and recommended I take it to my local Dodge dealer, but they also mentioned using clay bar? but thought that if it were acid rain that it will eventually show up again and/or I could have continued problems throughout my ownership of the car and that it was best to take it to Dodge. So I took it to my local Dodge dealer...the head guy over warranties looked at and wasn't certain what exactly was the cause, but said he would have to get his district manager involved (who only is in town 1 day a month), but wouldn't know when that would be. In the meantime he suggested that I contact Chrysler directly and start a claim. I did that and am waiting for a case manager to get back with me. My worry other than having to get my brand new car painted and it never being right, is that Chrysler will deny the claim (after reading what one of the earlier guys posted on this thread) and I don't want to keep calling it "acid rain" if that is something they typically deny vs. water spots underneath the clear coat or whatever type of paint malfunction.

Guys this is making me sick...this is my dream car and having to deal with this is killing me. Ultimately I believe I could send it back to the guys I bought it from and they would take it, but I would be out the $850 it cost to ship it here, don't really have another car to drive at the moment, and won't ever find another one like this for the price I got it for. I appreciate whatever help you can provide with the paint and dealing with warranty issues with Chrysler.

Thanks

if you live near Jersey, I will buff your car to the best it can be. I am pretty sure the paint can be cleaned up to look outstanding!
 

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....I appreciate whatever help you can provide with the paint and dealing with warranty issues with Chrysler.
A couple of things....

First, I would say this likely won't be viewed by Chrysler as a warranty issue and judging by your description of the damage, I would agree. The responsibility (if any) really falls to the dealer/seller. You have to figure this car has been sitting around somewhere for over a year with a questionable past in regard to how it was maintained and cared for.

Second, I wouldn't rely on a dealer to do any sort of "detailing" of the vehicle. The Neanderthals they typically hire to do this sort of thing are not much more than hacks with a rotary (IMO/IME). It's not worth the risk or frustration.

Personally, seeing how important this vehicle is to you I would seek the services of a reputable, experienced, professional detailer. If anything, let them look at the car, make an assessment and provide a recommendation. If the problem can be corrected without repainting, I would certainly choose that route. A “good” pro will have and know what tools, products and techniques will be needed to get the job done with the least amount of impact to your finish.

A good detailer isn't cheap however. ....but it's obvious you want to keep this car and someone who is good can really turn out a result you will be very happy with. If I knew your location, I would try to look up a few for you.

I would suggest visiting the Autopia.org forum. The membership is comprised of professional detailers, enthusiasts and novices sharing information/experiences on the topic of detailing. They also have regional forums where you might find a few in your area you can connect with. ....or in their "Find a Detailer" section (http://www.autopia.org/find-professional-detailer/index.php). Better yet, I would suggest joining and posting your problem in their "Car Detailing" forum (a lot more traffic in there). Pictures would also help others diagnose the extent of your problem and suggest solutions. Let them know you are interested in possibly having this taken care of professionally. ....a local may chime in.

What I like about the idea of searching forums for detailers is that you can look through their history of posts. This is actually true with most forums on various subjects. It's not long before you can get an idea of how well someone is respected in the community (reputation), what to expect as far as the quality of their work and their extent of knowledge.


….btw, if I were in your shoes and was doing the work myself, I would definitely be using a decontamination product (like the Valugard ABC I mentioned in one of my other posts) for starters (including clay) before beginning any correction phase.
 

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Kean... Thanks for the advice. One thing I didn't mention is that the Dodge dealer had this vehicle in their possession up until a month ago, so I doubt this is something that just happened. The Chrysler case manager called me today, but is having to transfer me to another case manager local to me. He did say that environmental issues aren't covered like acid rain, but if it was something that was in the paint it would be. Ultimately it sounds like it's up to the district manager for my area.

I did take it to a local body shop that I've used before, does good work, and has a good reputation. They mentioned using something to wash it with to neutralize the Ph if it were acid rain and then using clay, but they said that they thought it wouldn't last and would come back. That it was in the paint...and I am probably not conveying that just right. But their recommendation was that it needed to be painted and that it would best if Dodge did that (so they weren't trying to make a buck off of me). Obviously, they along with Dodge, would attempt the other first before painting and then go from there. Which I would agree with you and doing that as well is the first step. Ultimately I can handle dealing with this now and getting it fixed, but I don't want to have ongoing issues with a car I just purchased. Hopefully...it will work out with Chrysler otherwise I may just send the car back..... :(
 
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