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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought that the sealant goes on first and then one or two coats of a carnuba wax. But then it seems that some products advertise putting the sealant on top of the wax?

Please set me straight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

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In a nutshell, it really depends on the product and your goals/expectations. More is not always better and combining products does not necessarily result in a finish that takes full advantage of the characteristics of each product used.

Typically, the reason some folks prefer to use something like a carnauba over a sealant is to add something to the look/appearance of the finish they feel the base product is lacking. Generally speaking, sealants usually provide a glossy, reflective finish whereas carnaubas are usually known for their glow/warmth. In these cases they feel they get the advantage of the additional protection of a sealant as a base and the added “pop” of a carnauba on top. Some may also argue that this provides them with an additional “sacrificial barrier” against the elements.

Personally, with the myriad of choices in LSP’s (last step products; sealants/waxes/hybrids) on the market today with varying characteristics, I prefer to keep it simple and use an LSP that provides most (if not all) the of the traits I value in this type of product.

Another consideration is future compatibility. Some sealants simply don’t play well with other products (Zaino Z-5 & Z-2 are good examples of this). If you use a carnauba over one of these products, you will need to strip the finish if you want to re-apply the Zaino at some point in the future (for best results).

….and then there are the carrier solvents found in many carnauba pastes. These are what keep the product in its packaged, workable form. As the carrier agent(s) evaporate, what is left on the finish is just the wax. However, the solvents in these products can also have the effect of dissolving whatever LSP is currently on the surface (even previous layers of itself). As a result, some are even considered quite effective at cleaning and work similarly to AIO’s (all in ones). Layering these products on top of others can have the potential of partial/fully removing or compromising them.

Other than the Zaino CS, what sealant are you going to use as a base? What are you expecting to achieve with this combination (sealant, wax, sealant)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
In a nutshell, it really depends on the product and your goals/expectations. More is not always better and combining products does not necessarily result in a finish that takes full advantage of the characteristics of each product used.

Typically, the reason some folks prefer to use something like a carnauba over a sealant is to add something to the look/appearance of the finish they feel the base product is lacking. Generally speaking, sealants usually provide a glossy, reflective finish whereas carnaubas are usually known for their glow/warmth. In these cases they feel they get the advantage of the additional protection of a sealant as a base and the added “pop” of a carnauba on top. Some may also argue that this provides them with an additional “sacrificial barrier” against the elements.

Personally, with the myriad of choices in LSP’s (last step products; sealants/waxes/hybrids) on the market today with varying characteristics, I prefer to keep it simple and use an LSP that provides most (if not all) the of the traits I value in this type of product.

Another consideration is future compatibility. Some sealants simply don’t play well with other products (Zaino Z-5 & Z-2 are good examples of this). If you use a carnauba over one of these products, you will need to strip the finish if you want to re-apply the Zaino at some point in the future (for best results).

….and then there are the carrier solvents found in many carnauba pastes. These are what keep the product in its packaged, workable form. As the carrier agent(s) evaporate, what is left on the finish is just the wax. However, the solvents in these products can also have the effect of dissolving whatever LSP is currently on the surface (even previous layers of itself). As a result, some are even considered quite effective at cleaning and work similarly to AIO’s (all in ones). Layering these products on top of others can have the potential of partial/fully removing or compromising them.

Other than the Zaino CS, what sealant are you going to use as a base? What are you expecting to achieve with this combination (sealant, wax, sealant)?
Hi Kean thanks for your response

I have purchased:

sealant
Wax
I was planning on adding the Zaino clear seal linked above since it claims to enhance everything underneath it.

(I also got the bug gunk to clean after highway drives and the tire shine and a McGuire's clay bar kit)

Mostly with the idea that they would add layers of protection as my GWE R/T will be a daily driver in the warm months and kind of "show off" the unique color as best I could.

I would like to hear your thoughts on my strategy!
 

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In a nutshell, it really depends on the product and your goals/expectations. More is not always better and combining products does not necessarily result in a finish that takes full advantage of the characteristics of each product used.

Typically, the reason some folks prefer to use something like a carnauba over a sealant is to add something to the look/appearance of the finish they feel the base product is lacking. Generally speaking, sealants usually provide a glossy, reflective finish whereas carnaubas are usually known for their glow/warmth. In these cases they feel they get the advantage of the additional protection of a sealant as a base and the added “pop” of a carnauba on top. Some may also argue that this provides them with an additional “sacrificial barrier” against the elements.

Personally, with the myriad of choices in LSP’s (last step products; sealants/waxes/hybrids) on the market today with varying characteristics, I prefer to keep it simple and use an LSP that provides most (if not all) the of the traits I value in this type of product.

Another consideration is future compatibility. Some sealants simply don’t play well with other products (Zaino Z-5 & Z-2 are good examples of this). If you use a carnauba over one of these products, you will need to strip the finish if you want to re-apply the Zaino at some point in the future (for best results).

….and then there are the carrier solvents found in many carnauba pastes. These are what keep the product in its packaged, workable form. As the carrier agent(s) evaporate, what is left on the finish is just the wax. However, the solvents in these products can also have the effect of dissolving whatever LSP is currently on the surface (even previous layers of itself). As a result, some are even considered quite effective at cleaning and work similarly to AIO’s (all in ones). Layering these products on top of others can have the potential of partial/fully removing or compromising them.

Other than the Zaino CS, what sealant are you going to use as a base? What are you expecting to achieve with this combination (sealant, wax, sealant)?


So pardon me but what do you suggest one do with a 6 month old black crystal pearl. I've keep it clean but got 5 hail dimples and one small scratch on the left front fender.
I thought with the factory clear coat we didn't have to 'wax' the car but please advise me since it looks like I was wrong.
Thanks in advance....
 

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Hi Kean thanks for your response

I have purchased:

sealant
Wax
I was planning on adding the Zaino clear seal linked above since it claims to enhance everything underneath it.

(I also got the bug gunk to clean after highway drives and the tire shine and a McGuire's clay bar kit)

Mostly with the idea that they would add layers of protection as my GWE R/T will be a daily driver in the warm months and kind of "show off" the unique color as best I could.

I would like to hear your thoughts on my strategy!
Thanks for the links FastCat and I'll try to help where I can...

The first issue I see is that the "wax" you chose is what is commonly known as an AIO (all in one) product. AIO's will typically contain mild abrasives, chemical cleaners or both along with an LSP component. They are usually meant to help provide some light correction and/or cleaning ability while also leaving something behind to help protect the paint.

The problem with using this product as a "topper" would be that it will most likely compromise some (if not all) of the sealant you apply previously (what I was talking about earlier). This is also not a product you would "layer" given it's cleaning characteristics. In a nutshell, it would be counter productive (a waste of time and product) IMO/IME to use this in a combination after a dedicated wax/sealant.

The sealant you've chosen (EX-P) is a dedicated LSP. This is a product meant to be applied to paint in otherwise good condition or after a polish, AIO, etc.

If you're heart is set on using a wax over the EX-P, I would think any one of their Natty's waxes would be more appropriate. However, I can't speak for their compatibility with one another. You may want to visit their forums to get an idea of what products of theirs to use and in what combination.

As for using Zaino CS over all of this, it sort of defeats the purpose IMO/IME. If you're using a wax to add "pop" over a sealant, I wouldn't want to cover that up with another sealant. Don't get me wrong.... I use WOWA sealants similar to Zaino CS (Optimum Opti-Seal is my personal favorite) but I either use it alone or as a quick LSP over an aging wax/sealant (to buy myself more time between full details). In either case, it should be fine if you decide to do so.

....as for "layering", its a debatable topic which depends a lot on the products applied and your goals. Here's an old but interesting discussion on the subject:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing-product-discussion/34167-mike-phillips-nxt-you-5.html

I hope this at least helps a bit.
 

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So pardon me but what do you suggest one do with a 6 month old black crystal pearl. I've keep it clean but got 5 hail dimples and one small scratch on the left front fender.
I thought with the factory clear coat we didn't have to 'wax' the car but please advise me since it looks like I was wrong.
Thanks in advance....
Hail dimples can usually be addressed by a good PDR; paintless dent removal tech (as long as they are accessible and the dents are what they consider "fixable"). As far as the scratch, depending on the severity, you may be able to correct that yourself with a compound and/or polish. As far "what to do" with the paintwork, it really depends on its current condition, your goals/expectations and the time, effort and money you're willing to put into it.

I never bought into the idea that some have that a wax/sealant doesn't provide a benefit on modern clear coat finishes. IMO/IME LSP's do help in a number of ways depending on the product (i.e. they can provide a sacrificial barrier against harmful pollutants/elements, they can make the paint easier to clean (think contaminant/dirt release), etc.).

I've mentioned this in the past on this forum, but Mike Phillips (formely of Meguiars and now Director of Training with Autogeek) has a favorite saying: "Find something you like and use it often". It was a phrase he adopted from a response a PPG paint instructor gave during a presentation (before Mike came on) when asked by someone in the audience about what wax he would recommend.

Mike's interpretation was that as long as you are using a safe, quality product that provides satisfactory results, there's no reason you shouldn't keep using it. What is more important is that you are using something on the paint and that you reapply as necessary.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks so much Kean. Man this stuff is surprisingly complicated to learn! O_O

So maybe when I get the car I will wash, clay bar and apply the AIO I have. After that I will put on two layers of sealant.

thereafter a turtle wax style wax should work until it's time to re-add the sealant (at which point I can use the AIO beforehand again) etc.

Sound good?
 

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Thanks so much Kean. Man this stuff is surprisingly complicated to learn! O_O

So maybe when I get the car I will wash, clay bar and apply the AIO I have. After that I will put on two layers of sealant.

thereafter a turtle wax style wax should work until it's time to re-add the sealant (at which point I can use the AIO beforehand again) etc.

Sound good?
....no problem FastCat. It can get confusing with all of the different types of products and the lack of standardization of terms in the industry. The following chart (courtesy of Autogeek) uses the basic understanding of these terms in an easy to follow flow (showing the typical order/need):




Personally, I would skip the TW product and go with subsequent applications of the EX-P if/when needed. If you want to add extra slickness, protection or “pop” between applications, you may want to consider a quick detailer (QD) or a quick wax (QW). The problem with mixing various products is that unless you know they are compatible, there is a chance you can compromise the existing coating and/or cause problems down the road with re-application (i.e. smearing/residue issues, decrease in durability, muting of certain characteristics, etc.).

These days I prefer to apply the KISS method to most of my detailing tasks (“keep it short and simple” aka “keep it simple stupid”). As long as what I use/do is still effective enough to achieve the result I’m after, I don’t see a need to make things more complicated for myself than they need to be. As I mentioned before, this is why I like to choose an LSP that best meets most/all of my needs for the specific application.

For example, on my wife’s car (our DD) I currently have a couple of coats of FK1000P (by FinishKare). This is a sealant (in paste form) that I have found to have excellent resistance to contaminant adhesion (i.e. bird bombs, bug splatter, dirt, etc.) and quite durable (I can get about 6 months of protection from it). It also has a long lasting gloss/reflectivity as well as a nice slickness to it. What I don’t like about it (compared to other LSP’s I like to use) is that it goes on like a traditional carnauba (wipe on, let haze, remove) and will leave residue on trim, crevices, etc. if you’re too sloppy with it. It also requires several days to fully cure (I wait a week before applying the 2nd coat for fear of causing pseudo-halograms). Some have also pointed out that in that time the look of the finish actually changes/improves (gloss, reflectivity). However, shortcomings I feel FK1000P has in the application department are overcome by the other characteristics I mentioned.

I pointed out possibly considering a QD/QW. Poorboys has their own QD you may want to try (likely a safer bet as far as compatibility) but there are a myriad of others to choose from as well that may work just fine. One of my personal favorites is Duragloss Aquawax. It is a QW that you can use on its own or as you dry. ….while the car is still wet, you lightly mist each panel and wipe dry with your towel(s). You can use it all over (trim, glass, etc.) and IME I have never had problems with odd residue, streaking or other issues that I have had with some similar products. As far as QD’s I like my FK425 (another FinishKare product).

btw, some of the products I mentioned are simply ones I like. That’s not to say they are best solution for everyone or that your experiences would be the same. As with most I have learned about detailing, YMMV. Choose products, tools and methods that work for you.
 
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