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Discussion Starter #1
First 3 miss I want to do are: exhaust, cold air, and tuner. For exhaust I want to do the borla s-type. For cold air I want to go with k&n. And for the tuner I want a diablosport t2. Any objections? Any suggestions?
 

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If you want the old school sound with the exhaust go with Zoomers. Also, there is zero drone with Zoomers. Everywhere I take it people think is sounds like the old muscle cars. Just a thought...
 

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Can't say I've ever heard a V6 with Zoomers, although they make an exhaust for them. The Borla S should sound good.

A Guy
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Audio profile of the exhaust on the 3.6Ls is terrible IMO, so an exhaust upgrade belongs on the list of mods to get done first. Which branch/type is personal preference, just make sure you have heard the desired type on one of these cars first. Product descriptions and 3rd person accounts won't adequately paint the picture your own ears will hear once its on your car. Best to see/hear for yourself before spending the money to get any particular type installed.

Modifying the air intake system is a mixed bag. More growl at WOT can be had if the whole system is replaced (filter box, intake tube, everything up to the Throttle Body basically), but extra performance isn't necessarily a given, especially on the units which only replace the air box and/or filter. Either way, you would need to adjust the tune most likely to realize every bit of extra HP/TQ an aftermarket air intake system might offer, and some units offer no discernible difference in performance without an adjusted tune. So lots of research on which brand/type/model to go with is time well spent on this mod.

The DiabloSport i2 is a great device which can add HP/TQ when its canned tunes (and requisite higher octane gasoline) are used, and it is also invaluable as a diagnostic device and all-around information tool that can be used to learn much more about how the vehicle's engine really works and responds to changes in its inputs. They don't come cheap, but they are worth if you want to make them worth it. Meaning, if you just buy one and load a canned tune and that's it, I don't think you'll get your money's worth out of the device. But that's all up to the individual on how much time and effort to invest learning how to really use the tuner and its various tools.

The tuner does have a caveat for the 2015+ owners from what I understand. You cannot just buy one and go to town on a 2015+ PCM, as they are locked/encrypted/etc. such that no tune modification can be done with the DiabloSport devices. As such, in order to use a tuner on the 2015+ models, you would have to purchase a separate, unlocked PCM to install on the car (in place of the OE one), and that is the one that would be futzed with when using the tuner. An extra PCM is not going to be cheap either, so that is actually a rather expensive caveat to using a tuner on the 2015+ models.

You didn't mention what year your car is, but if it's 2015 or newer, you'll want to keep that last paragraph in mind when considering the tuner mod, no matter if its DiabloSport's i2 or one of the HP models.
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Whoops, my mistake... I did not notice it was a V6. Maybe Zoomers has some video to listen to? Carry on...
Too late, the damage has been done!

In order to attain absolution for your sins, you must say 10 Hail Mopars, and then wash, clay, polish, wash again, and finally wax your Challenger before Sunday, and lastly you must challenge a local police officer (on duty!) to a street race by pulling along side his cruiser and gassing it to WOT through 1st gear. :burnout:

Whatever punishment might arise from that last one is between you and the local municipality; but you will need to also take care of it to be completely absolved of your sins today. :deal:

(I don't want to hear about you skipping out on some community service or something and getting a warrant for your arrest! :nono: That'll just put you deeper in the hole!!)

May Dodge be with you, my son... :bowdown:
 

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It's a 2014 SXT

A Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #8
This is all really great stuff! I’m used to working on diesel trucks where you can put 45k into the truck to see huge HP. From all that I’ve read, I can over time put 10k into my car and see close to 500hp in my v6 gas motor!! That’s just baffling to me!! I love to hear some exterior stuff to. Thanks everyone!
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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This is all really great stuff! I’m used to working on diesel trucks where you can put 45k into the truck to see huge HP. From all that I’ve read, I can over time put 10k into my car and see close to 500hp in my v6 gas motor!! That’s just baffling to me!! I love to hear some exterior stuff to. Thanks everyone!
With enough time, money, and hard work, I’m sure you can get close to 500 HP from the 3.6L. But 500 HP in a V6 in one of these cars may not be like 500 Hp in other cars. These things are friggin tuna boats when it comes to weight, and pushing around 4K lbs can be a drag sometimes, even when you’ve got 500 HP, and especially if it’s not accompanied by an equal amt of TQ.

As long as you don’t mind your fun being more at home in the upper RPM range, you’ll be fine building out the 3.6L. But if you’re hoping to end up with a stump pulled, best to start out with the 5.7 or 6.xL
 

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I’d rather build my v6 than buy a v8. I’m sure down the road I’ll buy the big v8. For now my v6 suits me just fine.
 

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I’d rather build my v6 than buy a v8. I’m sure down the road I’ll buy the big v8. For now my v6 suits me just fine.
Good luck!
 

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You mentioned a K&N cold air intake. I would like to steer you away from an oiled filter system.

I have an Airaid dry filter system. It's easy to clean. Simply spray on their cleaning solution and rinse from the inside out. No messing with having to re-oil like the K&N.
 

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Personally I bought the V6 because it's good for me. Would I like more power? Sure, slather it on there...twice on Sunday! If I have to pay for it...no thanks, I'm good. If I wanted the big power, I'd have bought that. I can see getting a V6 because that's what you could afford at the time.

But then spending big money trying to approach V8 power...that to me is like Rent-To-Own. You can't afford to buy the item, so you pay monthly to get it. Once it's paid for, you paid 2 or 3 times what it would cost to buy it outright. I'd enjoy the V6, if I needed more power, I'd save for my next car, and get the V8.

I can imagine building the V6 for the fun and satisfaction of getting everything you can out of it. But if you just want that power, it's not the best investment. As Nuke mentioned, you'll not have the low end grunt that makes the V8 so grin inducing :)

A Guy
 

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I just want to see what I can get out of it. I don’t want to read someone else’s story, I want to build my own. I’m lot looking to take my car to the track and race. I just want to build it for fun. Ya know like when you can stand back and say “Yep I built that car from stock.” Now, I can go out and buy any of the challengers with any of the engine sizes and do the same thing. I just wanted to start small.
 

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Then have at it! I look forward to what you do ;)

A Guy
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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I just want to see what I can get out of it. I don’t want to read someone else’s story, I want to build my own. I’m lot looking to take my car to the track and race. I just want to build it for fun. Ya know like when you can stand back and say “Yep I built that car from stock.” Now, I can go out and buy any of the challengers with any of the engine sizes and do the same thing. I just wanted to start small.

It sounds like you take your wrenching pretty serious. That's good, I won't abide lackadaisical tinkerers when it comes to automotive maintenance, break/fix, and performance modding, just as I would not want them to allow it of me. But depending on what you're used to in the way of available tools and just general information with regards to modding engines for greater performance, you may be in for a rude awakening with what you can do to your Mopar engine while having some reasonable expectation of certainty about what you'll get in return, or even how to measure the results of your modding efforts...at least that was my early experience with these puppies.


You didn't say what kind of diesels you are used to working on, but if you are used to your engine having readily available information about how it's operating available to anyone that wants to extract it, you will find that these Mopar engines (and the computers that control them) are not that way at all. They do not automatically adapt well to different parts (non-OE or differently spec'd than OE), and may in fact respond quite negatively to a new part or a part differently configured over what came on it from the factory. Further, in order to get the computer to play nice with your new mods and/or configurations, you will need to know how to tell it to...or how to get someone who does know to do it for you.


There's no use in going into the gory details right now, but just in case you are coming from engines which use the Mass Airflow approach to air/fuel mix calculations, you should do some reading up on the alternate method of calculating the air/fuel mix - Speed Density, a.k.a. the MAP method (for Manifold Absolute Pressure; as opposed to MAF).


That's the bad news...or the worst of the bad news. The better news (but still not great) is that you can gain access to the ECU's data and information output with the help of a tuner, e.g. the DiabloSport i2 you mentioned in your original post. You will not gain absolute access to your ECU to actually change all of the settings it keeps locked away, but you will have access to check them and overwrite them if necessary. But first I would advise getting a tuner and just learning what all the danged thing can do - namely record datalogs of everything that's going on inside your engine.


That might sound super boring and tedious if messing with electronic gizmos is not your favorite thing to do, but I promise it will yield benefits much greater than the time spent learning how to do it. For example, without a tuner (and its datalogging capabilities, I would never have been able to confirm my suspicions about gasoline quality at the local QT gas stations (that it had gone down considerably in the recent past), and I certainly would not have been able to verify my hunch that improving the quality of what I was feeding my car would be the prescription I needed to cure its performance ills. To that end I offer up some screen shots of the datalogs I recorded while driving my Challenger and trying to make sense of this whole lag in performance that hit me out of the blue one day:


Q: "Why is this thing running like crap lately?"
A: Copious amounts of STKR (Short Term Knock Retard) will do that - STKR Spikes.jpg

I've heard estimates of HP lost per degree of KR is anywhere from 3 - 7HP. If we take that last pic as an example, I was missing at least 18HP and possibly as much as 36HP during that WOT run, and there was no warning or indication of why it was happening or that it even might happen to begin with. And without the datalogs to confirm it was happening, I might have never even known I was being handicapped from the start; I might have just assumed my car was like that all of the time.


I knew better though. My suspicions were that the gasoline was at the heart of my problems (nothing else major had changed on the engine in the immediate time prior to all of this). I knew the QT gasoline was Top Tier, so it shouldn't have been the issue, but I kept seeing the same KR with the QT gas just as if it was a lowly non-Top-Tier product I had seen before. Sure enough, after some research, I found out that QT had stopped being a Top Tier gas at some point, and while it used to be just as good as any other, I could no longer trust its quality for my specific needs (minimum octane rating, etc.).


So I first added some octane boost to the gasoline I had and did more datalogging:

Passing Lane 87.PNG


Much better!! But still not where it needs to be. So I began using gasoline which I knew to be Top Tier once the QT stuff was burned up, and I continued to datalog my travels:

Passing Lane 89.PNG

Proper Octane.jpg


HOORAY!! I was back to where I needed to be - making use of all the HP/TQ my car was able to produce given the equipment it had on it at the time.

And that's really the key, right? You can add as many performance mods to a car as you can afford, but in the end, if you are not receiving the full amount of power out of that engine that it could theoretically provide, then you're just wasting money and time. And how are you going to know when it's not giving you all it's got (because the computer is commanding it not to for whatever reason)? By not only datalogging the piss out of it, but learning how to interpret the data those logs present.

Knowledge is power, and with these modern engine's being almost completely computer controlled, we have to acquire as much knowledge as possible about their inner workings before we can even begin to know what performance adding mods will work and which ones will not. That's my take on the whole situation, YMMV obviously.

Once upon a time I was very new to the whole tuner/datalog thing too, and once I figured out what was what, I did a few write-ups here on ChallengerTalk in the hopes of helping others learn their way around the tuners as well. That was several years ago, and I do not have those threads' links handy, but I'm sure I could find them pretty easily with a quick search of the DIY section. Hit me up if you are interested in perusing those threads, and I will find them and pass them along.

Beyond that, all I can offer is a healthy dose of "Good luck" and a hearty "May the Schwartz be with you!"

Nuke
 
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