Dodge Challenger Forum banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm wondering what I should do next to my Challenger. Nothing special has been done yet. Just a Cold Air Intake. Sounds great, went with an Injen.

I'm wondering what I should do next. I'm not huge into the inner workings of an engine, but I know a few good modifications are cam shafts, headers and an exhaust system. But I don't really understand how I would benefit from these. Could someone perhaps explain a bit more on how they work? and why they're a good choice? I understand its about getting the air out of the engine more efficiently, but a bit more of an understanding would be nice.

I also don't want to get screwed over by the garage, with them telling me I have to do things that I don't need.

I've heard good things about the Borla exhausts. The guy who parks next to me at my condo said they were good, after I've already been doing some research on them, so it seems like a sign!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,810 Posts
Wow. Looks like I might be about to write a novel. Okay, first off, bolt ons and tuning are a great place to start. On the R/Ts, headers are the best thing for us as the stock manifolds SUUUUUUUUCK. If your state allows you to run long tubes then do so. Getting air out is a good idea but you need to get air in as well. Speedlogixstore.net are a vendor here and have FABULOUS customer service. I have dealt with them many times. They sell Legmaker intakes, one of the best on the market for us. Start with the intake and a canned tune by way of a Diablosport tuner. After that, look into either a 6.4L intake manifold or converting your car to run the 6.1 thats been ported, add an enlarged throttle body at the same time. Following those mods, the headers would come up and a complete exhaust system with mid pipes, high flow cats, and a cat-back exhaust. After all of this, that's when you go to the cam, ported heads, and other internal modifications. I hope this helps. Depending on when you go for the headers, if they pull the motor out of the car you might want to do the cam at the same time to save them from tearing the car down twice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have the 3.6L, I didn't spring for the R/T. Which I kind of regret now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,123 Posts
Either way, Hell Ride is right. A simple way to think of an engine is to think of it as a big air pump. The less restriction you have on evacuating air in and out, the more efficient the pump will be. The more air an engine can get, the more powerful it is. You're creating a bigger "boom" inside the cylinder, or in technical terms, a more powerful chemical reaction. Maximizing the amount of air the engine can bring in (intake) and push out (exhaust) are the two most important factors in performance. Anything else performance wise is just supporting these two principles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Is the Borla exhaust a good pick?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,810 Posts
Borla isn't bad. If I were in your shoes, I would get a 180 thermostat (or whatever temperature rating is best for the V6s) and a tuner. Upload the tune that is relevant to the highest available fuel octane in your area. After that, use the tuner to lower your engine fan settings to the temperature of the thermostat you purchased. For example: if you purchase a 180 degree thermostat, use the tuner to set your fan settings to 180 degrees. After that, do the exhaust when you feel the need but a tune will make the best difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,677 Posts
I disagree. headers, by themselves, are not worth the money on today's cars. Back 20 yrs ago, it was true that exhaust manifolds were very restrictive; and, the costs of headers weren't prohibitive. Spending $8-1200 , not including install costs for the minimal gain they produce, IMHO, is not worth the money. Todays cars have very well engineered exhaust systems, albiet maybe a little on the quiet side. Show me actual gains of headers WITHOUT TUNE, and you will see they are not good buys for the buck. And, I say without tune, because most of the gains people show are after they have it tuned. The majority of the increase comes from the tune, not the headers. Now, as art of an overall plan (heads, cam, SC, etc), they may fit in to an overall hp increase. By themselves, headers are not worth the money and time to put them on. The same goes for throttlebodies. Many here go by what they hear and alot of old time ideas, that do not apply to today's machines.

On your V6, you would be much better off, enjoying what you have. If the power is not enough, wait till you can get a good deal on a RT or SRT and trade up. It is not worth your time or money in upgrades.

As far as exhausts, they vary by peoples ears. They are not going to give you a great performance increase. They will change the sound. Is $1000 for a sound change worth it to you? Only you can answer that.

The best performance buy for your V6 is to get a custom dyno tune, if you can find someone in your area to do that. Next best thing is a canned tune, available from many manufacturers, including Diablo.

Love how people like to spend other people's money!!:eek:rder::11:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,123 Posts
Love how people like to spend other people's money!!:eek:rder::11:
He asked what to do next? Lol

And BTW yes headers ARE worth the money, at least they are on RTs. Dont know about v6s. But on an RT, THE most power robbing part is the OEM exhaust manifold. There's plenty of threads on here with dynos to prove that point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,677 Posts
He asked what to do next? Lol

And BTW yes headers ARE worth the money, at least they are on RTs. Dont know about v6s. But on an RT, THE most power robbing part is the OEM exhaust manifold. There's plenty of threads on here with dynos to prove that point.
Yes, he did ask what to do next. Spending money on parts that do no good is NOT what to do next. Any mods he puts into his car will at most get him to the level of an RT at twice the cost difference. He is wasting his money on mods, when an upgrade would save him money and get the power level he wants. And, I'm saying this as a guy who loves to mod his cars!!

Show me one, just one thread, documenting hp gains w/ headers AND NO TUNE. The tune is where the gain is, not the header install. You're talking about a $1500 or more (on average) cost for headers and install for what, maybe 20hp? And you think that is cost effective? I do not. Headers as part of an overall performance plan may be cost worthy, by themselves they are not. Prove me wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
627 Posts
I don't know if they have it for the v6 but look into a under drive pulley from speed lodgix I put one on my car and i love it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,123 Posts
Im not gonna hold your hand, the search fcn is in the top right corner.
Ok so by your logic, a blower does nothing, its all about the tune huh? Horse sh*t. The tune does you NO GOOD if you don't have the part to change the mechanics. All the tune does is change the cars settings to make full use of the mod you put on, a computer doesn't just magically create horsepower. The part frees it up, the computer adjusts settings accordingly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,677 Posts
Im not gonna hold your hand, the search fcn is in the top right corner.
Ok so by your logic, a blower does nothing, its all about the tune huh? Horse sh*t. The tune does you NO GOOD if you don't have the part to change the mechanics. All the tune does is change the cars settings to make full use of the mod you put on, a computer doesn't just magically create horsepower. The part frees it up, the computer adjusts settings accordingly.
I've already done my resarch on the subject, that's where I come by my conclusions. You've made a point that is not proveable and you know it. You can try to twist my words, but, the tune that comes with a supercharger is to get the engine running, not to free up hp. It is a proven fact that, Magnasun (which I have) leaves 50-60hp on the table with their conservative tune. I plan on making use of a custom tue in the next year. So yes, a tune does free up hp in that manner. Headers do not come with a tuner for a reason, they do not need a tune to keep the engine operating. Neither do CAI's and throttleboddies (which from your past experience, you have alot of knowledge, right?) I stand by my asserations and point of view. As I stated in the prior post, prove me wrong. You can't, because anyone who has spent the time and money to install headers will do a tune to get the most out of their purchase, or they just install headers and spout off with their butt dyno as a source, to prove they haven't spent their money unwisely. Headers, by themselves in modern day Challengers, are not worth the money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,123 Posts
Ok genius, heres one for you then. Was the first item under search smh. Same AFTERMARKET tune BEFORE AND AFTER header install. Headers were the only mod between dynos, and he netted 40ish horsepower. His hp gains were increased with supporting mods, but it nonetheless squashes your BS about headers not being worth it. Need i find more?

http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f175/kooks-headers-install-dyno-230817/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,123 Posts
In fact, lets go the other way, find me proof that headers DIDNT net any power gain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,810 Posts
I've already done my resarch on the subject, that's where I come by my conclusions. You've made a point that is not proveable and you know it. You can try to twist my words, but, the tune that comes with a supercharger is to get the engine running, not to free up hp. It is a proven fact that, Magnasun (which I have) leaves 50-60hp on the table with their conservative tune. I plan on making use of a custom tue in the next year. So yes, a tune does free up hp in that manner. Headers do not come with a tuner for a reason, they do not need a tune to keep the engine operating. Neither do CAI's and throttleboddies (which from your past experience, you have alot of knowledge, right?) I stand by my asserations and point of view. As I stated in the prior post, prove me wrong. You can't, because anyone who has spent the time and money to install headers will do a tune to get the most out of their purchase, or they just install headers and spout off with their butt dyno as a source, to prove they haven't spent their money unwisely. Headers, by themselves in modern day Challengers, are not worth the money.
I'm not looking to start a war here and I'm not attacking you personally, but I disagree with the highlighted statements. Depending on the style of header you go with, you may not need a tune. I know that r/t's don't need to be tuned if you use shorty headers, SRT vehicles, regardless of motor, don't need tunes if you only go with midlength but if you run long tubes on either motor, you WILL need a tune because it will lean you out considerably. If you lean out, you need to be tuned to put fuel back in, same reason with a supercharger. Also, the reason there is power left on the table with a canned blower tune is because the base tune is to get the car to run safely. They don't know what the fuel octane and elevation are that the car is being exposed to and either of those can cause detonation. A custom tune will free up more power because it's designed specifically for the vehicle's environment that it's being operated in at the time it's tuned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,677 Posts
Calling me names does not support your point of view. Post 6 in that response, clearly shows he has a custom tune, midpipes, exhaust, throttlebody, cai; all of which clearly supports my research and quote in my prior response: "headers as part of an overall performance plan may be cost worthy, by themselves, they are not." That poster added headers as part of his overall mods, and he did get gains. Included in those mods were a custom tune. As I stated, headers ALONE, may provide 20hp, and at the cost of $1500-$2k, are NOT WORTH THE MONEY. You cannot find a post where header gains were not part of a tune and other mods, because no one in their right mind would bother, the cost is prohibitive.
In your response to the OP, you advised that if he installed headers he would get a performance gain. He might, but I maintain the cost he'd pay for ther headers and install, ALONE (no tune, no other add-ons), are not worth the small amount of gain he'd get, V6 or V8. Prove me wrong. You're anxious to spend his money and give him bogus advice, as you are telling him, if he installs headers, he'd get 40hp, of the install alone. I am not. Other than than that, I'm done. I defer to your massive amount of years and experience on the subject!!:bash:

To the OP, spend your money if you want to listen to some of these "advisers"; and learn the hard way. Or just trade up to an RT/SRT when you can afford it. Performance mods in your case are not worth the money. JMHO, Take it or leave it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,810 Posts
Sir, are you addressing me or Lcpl Wade?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,677 Posts
I'm not looking to start a war here and I'm not attacking you personally, but I disagree with the highlighted statements. Depending on the style of header you go with, you may not need a tune. I know that r/t's don't need to be tuned if you use shorty headers, SRT vehicles, regardless of motor, don't need tunes if you only go with midlength but if you run long tubes on either motor, you WILL need a tune because it will lean you out considerably. If you lean out, you need to be tuned to put fuel back in, same reason with a supercharger. Also, the reason there is power left on the table with a canned blower tune is because the base tune is to get the car to run safely. They don't know what the fuel octane and elevation are that the car is being exposed to and either of those can cause detonation. A custom tune will free up more power because it's designed specifically for the vehicle's environment that it's being operated in at the time it's tuned.
And, I agree with most of what you posted. My assertation is that headers alone, are not worth the money for the small gains they give. If they are used with other mods, they may be cost effective. The OP has a V6 w/ a CAI. Are you also stating he should be spending his money on headers and expecting a major performance increase? I think not. Superchargers come with tunes to get the engine running safely, as you stated. AFAIK, there is no header kit, currently on the market that the manufacturer specifically requires a tune to install them. If you have knowledge of such a manufacturer, I'm all ears. The inference to the OP is: install headers, alone, and you'll see an noticeable increase in power that will be worth the $2k you paid for them. I refute that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,123 Posts
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top