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Discussion Starter #1
I know that the 2025 CAFE standards have been pushed back for now, but that may or may not be reversed by whatever administration takes power in 2021. What are FCA and the other American auto makers doing to at least temporarily forestall the death of the V8? I'd still like to be able to buy a new Hemi Challenger in 7-10 years when I wear out my current one!

We've seen technology like VVT, MDS, eTorque, and direct fuel injection (which the Hemi doesn't have) appear, along with new and better fuel/air control systems, more efficient transmissions, etc. Dodge will likely also start incorporating weight reduction in the next gen cars. We also know that some form of mild hybrid electrification is coming to the next gen, per Sergio's words.

All this is good, but will it be enough to ensure the Hemi's survival?

Personally, I'd love to see Dodge adopt a technology like Mazda's Skyactiv-X (
) for the 4th gen Hemi, which would help both our wallets in fuel savings and keep the government regulators away for longer. It also seems to be the most cost-effective and simplest option, since it doesn't require new parts or more complex systems bolted on. Combine that with weight reduction, direct injection, and mild hybridization and I think we could potentially see 30-35mpg highway from a 392 cubic inch V8!

I don't know enough about IC engine engineering to say how our Hemi's performance would be affected by Mazda's approach though, perhaps someone better educated can shed light?
 

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bottom line: they wont survive. tech is moving too fast in the opposite direction. Id give it 10-12yrs and there will be no more new ones being produced by anyone.
 

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I myself do not fear the end of the internal combustion engine. I was hoping for the nitrogen fuel cell but Tech. just did not go that way.
the issue was the large amounts of electricity for hydrolysis for hydrogen fuel cells - more energy going in that what the yield was.

hadn't heard about nitrogen - but again most industrial gas production takes a fair amount of energy to produce the product.

by comparison - LNG or propane are much easier to refine, compress or liquefy as a fuel
 

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the issue was the large amounts of electricity for hydrolysis for hydrogen fuel cells - more energy going in that what the yield was.

hadn't heard about nitrogen - but again most industrial gas production takes a fair amount of energy to produce the product.

by comparison - LNG or propane are much easier to refine, compress or liquefy as a fuel
The idea with the hydrogen fuel cell was, you would be able to fill your car with a garden hose, throw in a "pill" and it would do it's thing.
 

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You can hope for something like the Mazda engine helping to extend the life of ICE engines but the push is on - via government policies -- to eliminate the ICE from the road ways.

USA, Europe and China are pushing electric cars and will keep tightening the screws on ICE to make them go away.

In short: Fossil fuels is bad. Electricity is good.
 

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Buy more clean air credits from Tesla. FCA pay Tesla $340 million a year? Budget for $400M, $500M, whatever it takes to keep the Hemi. I'm off on the number, because I've not kept up, but not that off. The only reason why Tesla is in business is from selling clean air credit. Tesla made well over $2B from this shame. Biggest customers are FCA, Benz, GM, etc.

Back to topic, I like to see the Hemi V8 be left the way it is. We all need to breath clean air, it's ok to EV and hybrid everything else. This will offset the CAFE numbers. Chrysler Pacific is a great example. Gas powered, hybrid, and EV. Every model line should offer these three options.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Buy more clean air credits from Tesla. FCA pay Tesla $340 million a year? Budget for $400M, $500M, whatever it takes to keep the Hemi. I'm off on the number, because I've not kept up, but not that off. The only reason why Tesla is in business is from selling clean air credit. Tesla made well over $2B from this shame. Biggest customers are FCA, Benz, GM, etc.

Back to topic, I like to see the Hemi V8 be left the way it is. We all need to breath clean air, it's ok to EV and hybrid everything else. This will offset the CAFE numbers. Chrysler Pacific is a great example. Gas powered, hybrid, and EV. Every model line should offer these three options.
Not a bad idea. I don't mind paying a few thousand extra to keep my V8.
 

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On my soap box. The "America" brands idea to killing off the sedan (because of market demand?.?.?) is a bad idea. There are no 30 MPG cars to offset the V8 engines. It's too late now to bring back the Dart or 200. These are cars people really do want and willing to buy. No one wants the Fiat 500. So what if they are not better cars than the Civic or the Accord. They don't need to be. Nothing wrong with 4th or 6th or 7th place in sales. We don't teach kids that in baseball or winning. But this is business. Extremely short sighted IMO on the American auto leaders. Selling an extra 150,000 cars a year isn't bad. It keeps a lot of guys working. Ok, capacity can be diverted to more "profitable" models, such as? Jeep? Ok, or in return to fork that money over to Tesla.

The e-Torque idea is great as a step toward making them (V8) efficient, but it makes no difference in the big picture. FCA is still in "trouble."
 

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Discussion Starter #12
On my soap box. The "America" brands idea to killing off the sedan (because of market demand?.?.?) is a bad idea. There are no 30 MPG cars to offset the V8 engines. It's too late now to bring back the Dart or 200. These are cars people really do want and willing to buy. No one wants the Fiat 500. So what if they are not better cars than the Civic or the Accord. They don't need to be. Nothing wrong with 4th or 6th or 7th place in sales. We don't teach kids that in baseball or winning. But this is business. Extremely short sighted IMO on the American auto leaders. Selling an extra 150,000 cars a year isn't bad. It keeps a lot of guys working. Ok, capacity can be diverted to more "profitable" models, such as? Jeep? Ok, or in return to fork that money over to Tesla.

The e-Torque idea is great as a step toward making them (V8) efficient, but it makes no difference in the big picture. FCA is still in "trouble."
I can't completely disagree with you, but I understand them leaving the sedans to the import brands. American sedans just haven't been able to compete with the price, quality, reliability, and brand image that some of the imports have. So I guess they decided it wasn't worth the expense of producing them, especially when crossovers and SUV's are currently more popular.
 

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You can hope for something like the Mazda engine helping to extend the life of ICE engines but the push is on - via government policies -- to eliminate the ICE from the road ways.

USA, Europe and China are pushing electric cars and will keep tightening the screws on ICE to make them go away.

In short: Fossil fuels is bad. Electricity is good.
We'll never go to full electric. We can't even produce a fraction of the electricity we'd need to power all electric cars and when you couple that with the lack of a push for nuclear (stupidly so) I dont think we'll ever get there.
 

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I am so glad this isn't really ever going to be a concern of mine. My first new car was a 1967 Dodge Coronet 440 2 door HT which means, having been born in 1945, I grew up during the best of the muscle car era. It also means I'm still kicking during this resurgence of the HP races. While I'm enjoying my current '13 R/T at age 74, I expect to buy only one more car in my lifetime. That will likely be in about another 4 years. What will it be? Another R/T is the likely answer. The only question I'll have to answer is will it be a low mileage '13 or '14 or a low mileage newer model. This ICE vs. electric battle isn't mine so I don't enter the fray. What I don't understand is why those who will truly be affected simply lay down and allow governments to DICTATE what they will drive.
 

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I was so upset when these "Horseless Carriages" came out. What's wrong with my horse? It can also help plow, my kids love it. I hope horses don't go away for a long time!

A Guy
 

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I was so upset when these "Horseless Carriages" came out. What's wrong with my horse? It can also help plow, my kids love it. I hope horses don't go away for a long time!

A Guy
Yup......NICE answer!

Captures it perfecty.

Hemi's and for that matter ICE is probably going away, probably faster than most here want to believe.

The good news though? Just like a horse owned by so many people went away mostly by choice and not nearly so much because it was forced by law that didn't want them in towns, cities or on highways.......same here most everyone hand wringing over the potential demise of ICE will embrace the change when they see the efficiency and power levels of Electric. Drive a Tesla performance model and prepare to be WOW'd. Live with it for a while and realize how much less expensive it is to fuel and maintain.....soon after you give up you're ICE powered car as a daily driver PDQ.

Crazy part? Electric is already superior at this price point but it just keeps getting better each year on price.

Makes the future pretty obvious.....Unless the gains electric is making hits a wall ....soon the only reason I'll want an ICE powered car will be for the nostalgia and those Sunday throw back rides I'm willing to do at very expensive cost vs my electric daily driver.

My big worry.....if the number of people who want to keep driving an ICE powered car dwindle to a near insignificant number in my lifetime I might lose the legal ability to drive the ICE powered car on the road much like the way you can't just ride a horse on any road way today.
 

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My big worry.....if the number of people who want to keep driving an ICE powered car dwindle to a near insignificant number in my lifetime I might lose the legal ability to drive the ICE powered car on the road much like the way you can't just ride a horse on any road way today.
Could always go live with the Amish....

I am waiting for a MAJOR government investment into infra structure, where highways will use wireless charging tech. to charge the car while you are diving it, making coast to coast travel non stop, especially with self drivers.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Could always go live with the Amish....

I am waiting for a MAJOR government investment into infra structure, where highways will use wireless charging tech. to charge the car while you are diving it, making coast to coast travel non stop, especially with self drivers.
We also need a major investment into our energy production infrastructure, we don't yet have nearly enough nuclear and solar to make electric cars viable. And there are new types of molten salt nuclear reactors that solve all of the problems associated with traditional nuclear reactors, such as the possibility of melt down, high build costs, long half-life for spent fuel, etc.
 

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Bottom line, I'm surprised its gone on as long as it has. I myself have built and just built a 505 CI Plymouth. The days of combustion type motors in so called "new muscle cars" are limited as tech increases.. Most of these folks have never wrenched a day in their lives and I won't count installation of a K&N filter. As the tech industry pushes forward those that want a "real muscle car" will need to brush up on basic mechanics of a combustion motor.

You'll be faced with doing so or buying one and or paying 200.00 a hour shop rate. Don't get me wrong, I love the Charger and Challenger big time and can see why those who haven't a clue the difference between a trans and engine feel 😎.. It's just been a long road and I myself, still am impressed that the old Dyno's still walk this earth. In fact, was chatting with a man at Summit Racing and he said the sale of old parts couldn't be any better;) Dodge/Chrysler will do what they need to keep this fire burning.. Unfortunately, may not be a high output V8 tho. The late 70s and 80s showed us when the government sets in, 🐎 power drips!

I know that the 2025 CAFE standards have been pushed back for now, but that may or may not be reversed by whatever administration takes power in 2021. What are FCA and the other American auto makers doing to at least temporarily forestall the death of the V8? I'd still like to be able to buy a new Hemi Challenger in 7-10 years when I wear out my current one!

We've seen technology like VVT, MDS, eTorque, and direct fuel injection (which the Hemi doesn't have) appear, along with new and better fuel/air control systems, more efficient transmissions, etc. Dodge will likely also start incorporating weight reduction in the next gen cars. We also know that some form of mild hybrid electrification is coming to the next gen, per Sergio's words.

All this is good, but will it be enough to ensure the Hemi's survival?

Personally, I'd love to see Dodge adopt a technology like Mazda's Skyactiv-X (
) for the 4th gen Hemi, which would help both our wallets in fuel savings and keep the government regulators away for longer. It also seems to be the most cost-effective and simplest option, since it doesn't require new parts or more complex systems bolted on. Combine that with weight reduction, direct injection, and mild hybridization and I think we could potentially see 30-35mpg highway from a 392 cubic inch V8!

I don't know enough about IC engine engineering to say how our Hemi's performance would be affected by Mazda's approach though, perhaps someone better educated can shed light?
 
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