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Heyo!

I'm recently new to challengers and beyond a n00b at tuning. So i was hoping some of y'all could help answer my question.

I'm about to get a used 2013 challenger SXT, in great condition too! But, i'm a hp guy, love high numbers and loud cars. With that said, horsepower is what im going for with this.

So my question is this: which would be the better investment?

Tuning the SXT to get it as close to hellcat numbers as i can (within reason)

Or

Save up for a hellcat

If tuning is the choice then what would y'all recommend?

Like i said, im new to all this and i figure my best bet is to just ask.
 

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Just tuning wil never get a v6 to HC performance. You'll spend a ton modding a v6 to get 5.7 Hemi numbers, and reaching HC numbers isn't even a reality.


You want power, start with the v8 Hemi
 

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2015 RT 5.7 M6
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I don't look at cars as an investment (I have a jet boat and talk about a money pit...but one stomp on the throttle makes it worth it) but if you want the most bang for your buck...get a used or leftover (if you still can) HC. I have a co-worker who recently bought a V6 mustang as his daily driver. He wanted the GT but thought he could mod the V6 enough to get the power he craved. I took him for a ride in my SC 5.7 RT and next day he decided to put his mustang up for sale and look for a GT.

If you have not done so, test drive a HC or a SP at the minimum. I test drove an M6 R/T+ and M6 SP (HC were still going for ~$70k when I was looking) and yes the SP had plenty of power but I decided to go for the R/T+ ($31 out the door) with the intent to build it up. I have now invested enough money (additional ~$9K) in the R/T+ to purchase a used SP but I am still putting out more power than an SP and getting better fuel economy (but I could really care less). My goal was a super charged vehicle with enough power to melt tires on demand for under $45k (that's what helps me sleep at night). However, if I got the chance to do it all over now, hands down I would buy an 2015 M6 HC (I love manual muscle cars) as the prices are very reasonable.
 

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Excellent advice! I would echo the sentiments by saying to DO the diligence and test drive a few different models before making your choice. My son urged me to test drive an RT before I purchased my SXT and I didn't listen but should have. Fifteen months later I was in an RT Plus and loving it. Added a CAI and cat-back. I rarely ever turn the radio on. Haha.
 

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You are better off going with a 5.7 or a 392 that way you start at a higher caliber and work up from there.
 

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The SXT has 305 horsepower. Increasing it by 2.3 times is going to be pretty much impossible. If your only options are the two listed, save for the Hellcat.
 

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If you have a thought in your head that you may want a Hellcat, I'd say save up. There's no reason to dump money now if there's a good possibility you will end up in a Hellcat.
 

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Since you asked about it being an investment, Look at a 2 year old SXT and a 2 year old Hellcat and see which one has depreciated more. That will give you your answer.

I would say that you CAN make plenty of power with a 3.6 V6 (ever hear of a Grand National? How about a Skyline GT-R?), BUT it will end up costing more than just buying the Cat and the Cat will have a warranty. And the HellCat obviously has more potential for power down the road.
 

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Another way to look at it is................what's a SXT or Scat Pack with $20k worth of mods worth? Usually no more, and sometimes less than a "stock" model is worth.


Mods are for fun, and most folks know first hand that any money spent on mods is never recoverable if the car is ever sold. It's all for personal satisfaction, and that's about it.


Not against modding at all, just saying that there's no return on your money for what's spent on mods. Cars depreciate, and mods add no financial gain to this.............................but yeah, they sure can be fun.
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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The SXT has 305 horsepower. *Increasing it by 2.3 times is going to be pretty much impossible*. If your only options are the two listed, save for the Hellcat.
:deal: I'm about to get all mathy here, so bear with me:

Target HP: 305 + 400 = 705HP (close enough)

So an extra 400HP is the target...no problem!

(assuming an average of +5HP/sticker)
400 / 5 = 80 BLAMMO!!

:wiggle:

There you go, 705HP through nothing but aftermarket bolt-on mods.

While the car would look like crap once done, my math clearly shows it is possible to add an additional 400HP with only 80 stickers. Now finding enough space to put all those stickers on the outside of the car without impeding the driver's view through the windshield/back window/side windows is a whole 'nother story...

:eek3:

TL;DR - it can be done but the car will possibly be unsafe to drive and absolutely look like crap once done.
 

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Does each sticker need to be on a window, or does it decrease the HP rating if stuck to paint? Does the size of each sticker affect the HP output?
 

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I have been modding my 2013 sxt for several years now, started off at 15.2 @ 93 mph with 2.26 60ft times. I changed, gears, tires, intake manifold porting, throttle body porting, exhaust from heads to rear, CAI, TCM tuning, engine tuning and so forth, ended up at 13.9 @ 100 mph with 2.06 60ft times, about the only thing left was a stall converter - something like a 4k stall, would have gotten me probably 13.4 range still would be at 100 mph.

At the end of the day I was just a little over 300 hp to the ground somewhere around the 370 hp crank range and that was a lot of tinkering to get there.

Then I put on a Sprintex supercharger, which currently I'm sitting at 12.80 @ over 105 mph with a 1.78 60ft time, have not dyno'd the car, at best i could see my car running maybe low to mid 12's when I'm done and maybe around the 108 mph range and that is really about one can expect I guess out of the 3.6

I'm sure one could put turbos on the car and do a lot more work and maybe squeeze some high 11's out of it with out ever tearing down the engine and changing the long block. I'm sure the car would have to be lighten, way more gear, lot's of stall that sort of stuff, then your just turning the car into a drag car kind of only deal.

Even right now the best claims in hp are around 500 hp at the crank out of the 3.6, to get another 200 out of it, man you will sure break the engine, the small cubic inches- 220 ci 3.6 your asking a lot to squeeze 700 hp out of it, even if you did get that much, I think the 3.6 would be a ticking time bomb.

Heck even where I'm at squeezing over 14 lbs of boost thru the engine and seeing near 7,000 rpm shift points, hell I feel i'm pushing the durability of the 3.6, can't imagine throwing a 200 hp shot of nitrous on top of that and expect the little guy to live just to get near hellcat power. Even then it won't compete with the hellcat, just won't have the torque of the hemi.

For me it's about tinkering and just seeing what I can do with a little v6 that no one cares about, if your really about wanting hp, the v6 is the wrong platform to do this with, I would say go with the most hp you can afford up front and play from there.

I went with the cheapest platform just to have something to tinker on, I didn't care about being top dog hemi dude, I just wanted a new toy to play with. I will say it is pretty tough to go "fast" with the little 3.6 engine. Small engine and one heavy ass car.
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Don't worry, I'm feeling MUCH better now!

Does each sticker need to be on a window, or does it decrease the HP rating if stuck to paint? Does the size of each sticker affect the HP output?
You know, as simple and straightforward as those questions are (no surprise you are not the 1st to ask them, right?), finding credible information to answer them has proven incredibly difficult.

I even engaged the customer support staff of some of the companies in question (e.g. Hooker, Summit, Flowmaster, etc.) to try to get some answers, but I struck out each and every time.

Their answers were all pretty much the same, "What are you talking about?", "Huh??", and my personal favorite, "Under the terms of our restraining order on you, you are not allowed to contact us, even by email. If you do not cease and desist, we will have you arrested again!"

Blah, blah, blah...whatever!

I mean, it's clear they are all in cahoots with each other and actively trying to block us from seeing the real data behind this secret power-adding mod... But they can't suppress the truth forever!!

And on a more personal note, is it too much to ask for these companies to come up with some new scripts for their customer service people to use when answering calls and fielding emails from us customers?? It's clear they're all using the same "Deny, Deny, DENY!!" script when I talk to them, and frankly it's a little insulting that they think I don't know what they are doing behind the scenes. :nono:

I wish they would just stop doing this...it makes my head hurt...and if that starts up again, it's only a matter of time before I start blacking out and coming to with no memory of what I have done...and then it's 2008 all over again!

Speaking of which, next August will be 10 years since my last episode, but more importantly it signals the end of this blasted probation, WOO-HOO!!! I will sure be glad when that is up, then I can finally stop these blasted court-ordered psychotherapy sessions they got me to agree to as part of the original deal... :8: :eek3:
 

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:deal: I'm about to get all mathy here, so bear with me:

Target HP: 305 + 400 = 705HP (close enough)

So an extra 400HP is the target...no problem!

(assuming an average of +5HP/sticker)
400 / 5 = 80 BLAMMO!!

:wiggle:

There you go, 705HP through nothing but aftermarket bolt-on mods.

While the car would look like crap once done, my math clearly shows it is possible to add an additional 400HP with only 80 stickers. Now finding enough space to put all those stickers on the outside of the car without impeding the driver's view through the windshield/back window/side windows is a whole 'nother story...

:eek3:

TL;DR - it can be done but the car will possibly be unsafe to drive and absolutely look like crap once done.

Why don't you just go to the source and start with some nice vinyl mods. Stripes......50hp EACH. Tail band.....100 hp.
Why do you think I don't have the side stripes??? My stock rims can't fit tires wide enough to hand the power. DUH!
So start with vinyl, then the supplement with stickers. At least that's what I did. Hood emblem=175!!!!
 

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The Bacon Hauler (‘12 Cop Charger)
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Why don't you just go to the source and start with some nice vinyl mods. Stripes......50hp EACH. Tail band.....100 hp.
Why do you think I don't have the side stripes??? My stock rims can't fit tires wide enough to hand the power. DUH!
So start with vinyl, then the supplement with stickers. At least that's what I did. Hood emblem=175!!!!
Well that appears to answer the 2 questions @damnimcooltom posed earlier today (and which I'm sure we've all asked at some point), many thanks!! :thumbsup:


NOTE: I don't generally like to accept anecdotal evidence in place of real, verifiable data, but I think it will have to do in this situation. I'll believe @silver scat's testimony to the efficacy of the stripes as well as the ability to mount them anywhere (not just windows) and still reap the added HP benefits. So that's good news for the original problem - the approach is sound but the math can be more split up to divide out the HP gains across differently sized stickers and such. But that's a detail better left up to the person modding their car with them, so I will not expound upon it any further here.
 

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I could be wrong,but wouldn't the added weight of the stickers negate any gains?

I think one of those electric superchargers off ebay,a throttle body spacer and caliper paint(I hear it reduces roll resistance)should get closer to the goal.
 

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Speaking of which, next August will be 10 years since my last episode, but more importantly it signals the end of this blasted probation, WOO-HOO!!! I will sure be glad when that is up, then I can finally stop these blasted court-ordered psychotherapy sessions they got me to agree to as part of the original deal... :8: :eek3:
Tired of the treatments?
 

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