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Discussion Starter #1
Compared to other catbacks, why is the flowmaster less. I like the force II system because it is not as loud, but the price is so low it makes me question quality/performance.
 

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I've wondered the same thing. I was leaning towards the American Thunder because I think the Force II may be too tame. I'm becoming partial to the sound of the Zoomers and MBRP systems but they're WAY more expensive and I can't figure out why.
 

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Maybe the other companies are greedier.
 

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For one reason, couldn't it be stainless steel?
 

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yeah i would say because the mufflers are not stainless, I have the super 44s in the middle with no resonators and i get so many compliments on the exhaust sound, and they actually get deeper and drone less after a few miles. I also picked up some low end torque!:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
They are stainless. I saw the Force II as low as $580.00 online. They are bolt on with no cutting. It looks easy to install. I thought about doing it myself, even though I don't know much about working on cars.

Here is a link that shows a comparison and an install demo.
 
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My father in law has the flowmaster on his r/t auto. Sounds real good.
 

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That isn't exactly true, there is no reason why an exaust pipe and a 2 or 4 mufflers should cost 1500.00, even with stainless steel. My catback on my mustang cost 439.00 magnaflow stainless, my catback on my stealth turbo cost 600 (borla-stainless) spending 4 times as much is just paying a premium because they are getting what others are asking for their systems. The local muffler shop said they can build me a complete system with 4 stainless magnaflows for 600.00 sure the pipe isn't mandrel bent, nor is it stainless, but stainless pipe isn't going to make it perform or sound any better, it will only protect against rust, and here in Florida i don't have to worry about rust, especially with the car being garaged regularly. There aren't any shops nearby that do mandrel bends so i'll be stuck with a few non perfect bends. Certainly not worth spending 1k extra for 16 feet of 2.5 inch pipe.

The pipes don't loop over the rear axle, so the bends are all gradual anyway so it won't impede flow to any major degree. And with the amount i save, i can replace the pipe in 15 years if i still have the car. (my factory original 69 charger's exhaust is still solid as a rock after 30 years in storage and it wasn't stainless or mandrel bent either, and sounds better than any new challenger exhaust)
 

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The "mandrel bent" thing is odd to me. How is pipe bent if it isn't mandrel bent? And is this other technique (whatever it is) really all that inferior? I have to imagine that however it's bent the people doing it would take care to do it in such a way as to not impede flow to any significant degree. Am I right or is the "mandrel bent" feature that all the aftermarket companies brag about the only way to go?
 

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The "mandrel bent" thing is odd to me. How is pipe bent if it isn't mandrel bent? And is this other technique (whatever it is) really all that inferior? I have to imagine that however it's bent the people doing it would take care to do it in such a way as to not impede flow to any significant degree. Am I right or is the "mandrel bent" feature that all the aftermarket companies brag about the only way to go?
Non mandrel bending is called "crush bending", around here anyway. If it's "crushed" you can easily tell because the diameter of the tubing is reduced where it's bent, and mandrel bent tubing stays the same through the bend. I had an exhaust made for my truck years ago while I watched and it was the first time I saw mandrel bending. It sounded great, but sadly I hit a tree stump and I had to hacksaw it off after it got all crushed up around the rear axle. I ended up having a replacement made from mandrel bent prebent pieces of tubing and 3" turbo mufflers. It was LOUD. Full throttle runs were amazing, it sounded so great, but I got warned about the noise several times my cops over the 3 years I had it on. Most of them agreed it sounded like it had 600 HP, and they liked it. I would guess if I was lucky, it had maybe 400 in reality. It was a 360, with ported heads and bigger valves, ported intake, worked over Thermoquad carb (A good TQ beats an equivilant Holley, easily) a moderate cam, headers and the above exhaust. Very short and not much restriction or sound control, at all. If I could get my Challenger to sound like the truck, but maybe half as loud, it would be perfect. My mother used to say that she could hear me turn into her street about a half mile down from her house. I don't really doubt it. I don't want the Challenger that loud.
 

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with mandrel bends they actually put a metal ball inside the pipe as it bends so it doesn't crush one side as they bend or stretch the metal, that way it is uniform throughout the bend. (at least that was how it was explained to me) and the flow is smoother, any crush bend is going to cause some reduction in flow, but not enough to actually make that big a difference, as long as there isn't a lot of twists and turns in the pipe itself.

More than likely you'd get more out of a good set of headers than you would out of a car that had crush bent exhaust pipes vs mandrel bends. As much as i'd prefer a mandrel bent stainless pipe from header to tailpipe, it just isn't worth it to me to spend 1500 on an exhaust pipe on the car.
 
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