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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
im curious and a bit annoyed

i drive auto stick 90% of the time now....when i tap it there is a delay for the shift........why?

will a future tuner eliminate this?

i dont get why it just doesnt go BAM and shift....i see no reason for the delay

its just odd!
 

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My guess is it's due to electronic vs mechanical. Similar to throttle fly by wire.. delays built into the electronic impulses whereas mechanical is instantaneous.

Current predator tune for 2010 R/T does not take care of it.

It can be irritating, but I've gotten used to it.

Mike
 

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I've noticed that delays can be entirely situational. You may want to re-evaluate shift delay behavior with TC in semi-off mode, as well. Some have premised that throttle control and transmission quickness may be slightly better when TC is not full-on.

If I am punching it in a straight line, I've noticed shift control keeps up with your selection pretty well, and the shifts are crisp and assertive (some would call it "rough" for failing to be luxury automatic seamless). If I am experiencing momentary lateral G's (such as in a cornering stance), there can be a considerable delay, as if it is waiting for my maneuver to complete or settle before it makes it's move (other times, the shift comes timely, under seemingly the same conditions). Also, if you happen to be doing a lot of stuff with your throttle and/or brake right at that moment, you may find your shift "deferred", then as well. It's not exactly consistent with those conditions, but that is the best I can liken it to, at this point.

Most of the time it shifts pretty much on-command. It's just occasional instances where it is long enough that you wonder what just happened, or did I not click it hard enough to register?
 

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I had no issues with my R/T. The autostick in my Honda Prelude had a huge amount of delay, so maybe my experience with the R/T is because of that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
the delay isnt huge...but its there....i dont believe in 2011 that its a delay between electrical and mechanical....it should be instant...

i dont notice any difference in the delay no matter what im doing...i dont turn off traction control very often...ill test that one

when you give it a bit of throttle its very snappy....but still delayed...if i was racing id have to shift 200-400 rpms lower than the actual desired shift point

yes ive gotten used to it, but i still want to know WHY!!!
 

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I should have noted that my comments above are mostly in the context of downshifts. That's where timing seems more critical in the kinds of driving I encounter. I don't recall any issues with upshift, and if I did, it would have been entirely inconsequential, as I am typically shifting well before 5000 rpm, and I am backing off the throttle before the car goes "illegal" on me. I understand you may be experiencing considerably different shift requirements if you are drag racing to the very last rpm.

Maybe it is doing something different when you have the throttle matted vs part throttle? ...or maybe when it is approaching it's natural upshift point based on redline proximity, it has already pre-empted manual control from you in favor of staging it's own programmed upshift? So maybe it seems like a lag, but in reality, it has locked you out and is enacting it's own upshift procedure as per normal approach of the redline? The actual physical event just happens to be a little later than if you would have triggered it?
 

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Two words.. Torque Management....

You think it's bad in an SRT car? Drive a non SRT car! Go from reverse to first and you have to wait a few seconds until the vehicle decides it's "ok" to go forward.. My 300C did this.. That's what they call "Luxury".... Can't have it jerk or anything, might snap the fragile neck of a blue hair!
 

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Doesn't have something to do with the programming of the computer? I've head that the shifting will not happen if you are not within the acceptable range to protect the transmission. I found this out on my SE and since it isn't instantaneous, I just don't bother to shift manually, only on off ramps when I want to slow the car down with the engine instead of the brakes. Maybe this is where the term "Auto" comes in. If you want to shift manually, chances are one should get the manual transmission.
 

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I think the protection function is mostly about downshifting than upshifting. It will ignore upshifts which will drop rpm too low, as well, but I don't think timing would ever be an issue in that kind of scenario.

That said, I'd have to say the computer still allows you to make some pretty aggressive downshifts...the kind that will jerk the whole car and getting a braking chirp out of the rear tires. So I don't think it is really the protection mechanism, per se, that interferes with shift commands. If it does, then it *really* needed to intervene, because the driver just F'dup a good bit.

I'm really inclined to think that if you have the throttle wide open and fast approaching the uppermost allowable rpm, the computer is simply prone to hold the gear until its predesignated redline shift trigger (that way, it can coordinate all of these powertrain events and engine controls *exactly* how it is programmed to do during the transition, instead of adjusting on-the-fly to user inputs). You can send a signal to upshift before that, but that is getting overrided/deferred by priority engine load/rpm/throttle parameters. The computer just decides to autopilot the upshift based on the priority parameters, given that the powertrain is now in an elevated, and potentially vulnerable, state of activity.
 

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I don't have an 11 but I can say with upshifts on the 2010 R/T it does not matter if I am close to redline/normal WOT shift point or not. I can upshift at 2000 RPM's and it still takes nearly a second to actually shift and generally 2-300 more RPM.. I've done it all over the scale and it's pretty much the same delay, which is why i figure it is electronic computer delay vs mechanical. It could easily be that the "command" to shift receives a lesser priority than something else that is going on.

I shift based on feel pretty much anyways (vice a certain RPM), and if Im in WOT, I let it shift itself. It doesn't bother me like it did when I first starting using Autostick exclusively, but the delay is definitely there on the upshifts.

If anyone else wants to duplicate it, do the upshift and watch your gear selection and RPM. It will change numbers for the next gear before the shift actually occurs, and it will be generally several hundred RPM after you slap the stick before you feel the shift.

Irritating??? Sometimes yes... but I still prefer Autostick over "drive"

Mike
 

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I don't think 2000 rpm is a particularly meaningful test for upshift latency. It is quite likely that the higher gear would just send the rpm below the allowable threshold (i.e., too early). The 1 second wait was just the incidental time that passed after rpm had risen by the needed amount for an allowable upshift or your throttle position or road speed stabilized. It could have just as well been .5 sec or 5 sec, depending on your state of acceleration.

For the most part, upshifts have been satisfactorily "on time", IME in the car. When I say that, I am assessing the time I clicked the lever to when I feel the slap on my back in the seat (rather than watching tach motion). If I was regularly experiencing half second shift delays, I would certainly be complaining. I just have not experienced shift behavior like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
i dont race around too much....but i do give it medium throttle and ride out the gears a bit.....it does it the same no matter where the throttle is

i dont see how its protecting anything since it has to shift anyways and when it shifts its very snappy.....there's just a built in delay for some reason....and no one really knows why..
 

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Huggy -

A couple of things might address the "languid" shift pattern you notice.

The blue-top solenoids (AMG spec parts) bolt into these trannies - they provide firmer / faster shifts. You can read up on the LX / Charger forums about this mod. It requires dropping the tranny pan, removing the valve body to change out the solenoids - yours has the standard brown-top solenoids from the factory. That mod has been done for several years now.

There also upcoming 2012 revisions to make the automatic shift programming faster / firmer to address customer feedback about this. Not sure if this is TCM module (and / or PCM module) revisions. This is in conjunction with the 2012 optional paddle shift feature - auto-stick will still be on the 2012 models

Whether this change can be retro-fitted into the 2011 and earlier models is an unknown until people get their hands onto the 2012s to see how it was done.
 

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I don't think 2000 rpm is a particularly meaningful test for upshift latency.
The 2000 RPM number was an example, but I see it at pretty much any RPM, at pretty much any acceleration rate. On my way home from work I rant a test..

Very mild acceleration, shifting "quickly" through the gears to get to 4th at 35MPH, there was a delay albeit it seemed to shift "quicker". This was at RPM rates of 2000 and below. it shifted, and pretty much emulated running in auto mode under very mild acceleration.

Shifting at between 2500 and 3000 RPM, under moderate acceleration produced what I would quantify as a more noticeable delay.

It seems that the harder the acceleration, the more noticeable the delay is.. which may point to an association with the torque management system.

Is it unacceptable.. no, I've gotten accustomed to it, and it doesn't bother me. I shift more based on feel vs actual RPM anyways. Is the delay there...absolutely.

Maybe bluetops will fix it, I don't know. Im contemplating the switch to bluetop anyways, but don't have the funds today to do it.

Mike
 

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I dunno, maybe there has been a change in firmware since the 2009 models or maybe your adaptives have gone soft?
 

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I dunno, maybe there has been a change in firmware since the 2009 models or maybe your adaptives have gone soft?
Hmmm.... do the adaptives come into play in autostick mode? Maybe I need to do the #2 fuse trick and clear it. Been driving exclusively in autostick mode, under moderate to heavy acceleration for at least two-three weeks now.

Mike
 

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I don't have an 11 but I can say with upshifts on the 2010 R/T it does not matter if I am close to redline/normal WOT shift point or not. I can upshift at 2000 RPM's and it still takes nearly a second to actually shift and generally 2-300 more RPM.. I've done it all over the scale and it's pretty much the same delay, which is why i figure it is electronic computer delay vs mechanical.
I too have found that at WOT it takes 2-300 rpms before making the shift. I have raised the rev limiter in my car to 6,500 rpm and set the shift points to the 6,200 setting on the Diablo Predator for use at the drag strip. I like to shift manually at about 6,000 rpm, in order to achieve this I have to shift around 5,700 then with the delay the car will actually shift at the desired 6,000 rpm range. That's one good reason why I'm no fan of all this drive by wire stuff, I know it's all Neanderthal of me but by gum I like linkages. :thumbsup: Old fashion linkages work, they give good feel and can be easily repaired by us average guys.
 

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Feeling/seeing the delay in the shift myself, I normally never took it up past 5800-5900rpms. Today I decided to test some shifting and took the 392 to 6000rpms and 6100rpms and using autostick.

WOW is all I can say. The millisecond I upshifted she went into gear with a nice super firm jolt. When hitting 6k it happened every time right until 4th gear when I let off.

Coming back from the hospital and after she cooled down for 3 hours I tried it again and same thing, super firm shifts and IMMEDIATE when 6k or higher but under 6k there is a 200rpm or so delay of shifting.

I love the autostick and hope it is not a fluke with what I am seeing but rather the transmission learning my driving style and adjusting to performance when really needed.
 

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I am not noticing a delay. I was shifting at 6200 RPM at the track and the shift was right on. this was with TC turned off and running through 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
 
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