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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The car would start most of the time then it just stopped and it won’t start. The engine cranks over but will not start.

  • mobile mechanic came out
  • he said no pressure from pump
  • he said he checked everything and it was the fuel pump.
  • I ordered the fuel pump, spectra, and he then tripled his price to 300 to install.
  • I put it in my self.
  • still did not work. Fuse is good.
  • with the backseat out I still could not hear the new fuel pump priming.
  • I then bought a tipm from a salvage yard and put it in. The tipm was from a V6 challenger.
  • I tried to reset the tipm by letting it sit when I started the car so it would pull the car information into the tipm.
  • I noticed the mobile mechanic left a wire un-connected that attaches to the flexible hose from the engine that goes to the air filter.

i am thinking that there must be some other kill switch or hose that the mechanic did not reconnect that is causing the issue.

what else can I check to make sure I am not missing something.
I have replaced the fuse
I have replaced the fuel pump on driver side
I have replaced the tipm with used unit from the salvage yard.

Anyone in spring north of Houston?
 

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A fuel pump not working is not a symptom of a bad TIPM.

Symptoms of a TIPM problem:
  1. The fuel pump not turning off and burning out.
  2. The airbags not deploying OR deploying randomly.
  3. The engine stalling while driving.
  4. The starter cranks but won't start. (Well, this could be due to a non functioning fuel pump...)
  5. The horn going off at random times.
  6. Power windows not working.
  7. Doors locking or unlocking themselves.
Without knowing more about how the fuel pump in your car is wired in I'm reluctant to offer this but with another car the fuel pump was suspected of being bad: Engine started normally then a moment later died. After engine cranked just fine but would not start. Mileage: 172K miles.

Tech disconnected fuel pump from vehicle wiring harness and connected shop 12V power to the pump. The fuel pump did not run.

(At home I had already confirmed the fuse and relay were ok. Whether the tech duplicated these checks or went straight to the fuel pump I don't know.)

It is possible the replacement fuel pump is bad. Or your installation is to blame.

As I covered above a non working fuel pump appears to not be a sign of a bad TIPM. But I'm no expert on the TIPM.

While you can use a TIPM from another comparable vehicle the "new" car's VIN needs to be programmed into the TIPM. My reading on this subject suggests this doesn't just happen after you install the TIPM and turn on the ignition a specific write the VIN operation must be performed.

Double check your installation of the fuel pump. Be sure all electrical connections are good. Look for a separate ground strap that if present may not be connected.

If you feel comfortable doing this connect 12V power to the fuel pump -- after it has been disconnected from the wiring harness! -- and confirm the fuel pump runs. Want to add before you do this if you decide to do this it would be a good idea to get from another source this is an otherwise harmless operation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply. I did go off the information from a mobile mechanic, who said he had tested everything and determined it was the fuel pump.

There seems to be a lot of information about cars cranking and not starting based on the fuel relay which is hard soldered into the tipm.

I am also in the process of doing another hard reset by disconnecting the battery cables and keeping them touching for 2 hours to drain the capacitors.

I also tested the power to the plug at the fuel pump and did get some sort of electrical reading.

I feel like I am missing something simple like fuel cut off switch or something. It’s like something is telling the fuel pump not to pump.

the gas gauge is working so the pump must be getting power right?
 

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Thanks for the reply. I did go off the information from a mobile mechanic, who said he had tested everything and determined it was the fuel pump.

There seems to be a lot of information about cars cranking and not starting based on the fuel relay which is hard soldered into the tipm.

I am also in the process of doing another hard reset by disconnecting the battery cables and keeping them touching for 2 hours to drain the capacitors.

I also tested the power to the plug at the fuel pump and did get some sort of electrical reading.

I feel like I am missing something simple like fuel cut off switch or something. It’s like something is telling the fuel pump not to pump.

the gas gauge is working so the pump must be getting power right?
Well, the mobile mechanic may have been wrong.

You can try a reset but I don't hold much hope it will help.

If there was a fuel cut off switch a google of this "2013 dodge challenger fuel cut off switch" should turn up a post or video by someone who's been through this before. I just searched this and came upon the 2013 Dodge Challenger owners manual online and there is no mention of a fuel cut off feature other than the fuel cut off that happens when the engine reaches red line.

Thus I'd have to say there is no fuel cut off switch.

I don't know your level of skill/experience in this area but I'll toss this out and you decide what you want to do. I will insert here that I'm loathe to mess with the fuel system in any way. One wrong move can have the car on fire. And if this happens in the garage... Oh my.

Also, I'm a big scaredy cat when it come to diagnosing electrical problems too. If one is not careful or doesn't know what he's doing he can do more harm than good. My level of knowledge about electrical circuits comes from as a child being shouted at "Don't touch that!"

But you first have to confirm the fuel pump runs. As I mentioned before to eliminate everything but the fuel pump the fuel pump must be disconnected from the car's wiring harness and shop 12V power supplied to the fuel pump. This assumes that pump runs on 12V power (not something less) and in connecting 12V power to an otherwise healthy pump this does not in some way damage the pump.

That the fuel gauge works is no guarantee the fuel pump works.

If the fuel pump runs the problem lies elsewhere. A relay is always suspect. As is a fuse. From my brief research a bad TIPM doesn't seem to be responsible for a non working fuel pump. At least this symptom was not explicitly listed.

And you installed a TIPM from another vehicle. My info is the VIN needs to be programmed into the TIPM. But if your info is just plugging in a TIPM should work I'll not argue the point.

However, the used TIPM can be bad and if by being bad this can cause the fuel pump to not run well, there you are. You jumped from one bad TIPM to another bad TIPM.

If the pump runs with shop power and you confirm the fuse is good then something else is wrong. With that TIPM possibly playing a role I do not know how to go about testing/eliminated the TIPM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You are right about the first guy diagnosing the fuel pump being bad. I still have the old one so I will test that one with a 12v battery to see if I removed a working fuel pump. I am towing it to the shop tomorrow. I am skilled enough to change out parts hoping it will solve the problem.
The hard re-start did not work.
I gave it a shot.
 

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You are right about the first guy diagnosing the fuel pump being bad. I still have the old one so I will test that one with a 12v battery to see if I removed a working fuel pump. I am towing it to the shop tomorrow. I am skilled enough to change out parts hoping it will solve the problem.
The hard re-start did not work.
I gave it a shot.
We are not professional mechanics. Whenever I have been around one doing his job I'm always amazed and surprised by his skill, experience and training. I can offer a short sentence on a subject and the tech can turn around and give a book in response. Their knowledge is quite good. That's their job of course.

At some point one exhausts what he can do and that's that. I generally either pursue a problem until I arrive at a solution or I come up to a wall that I can't go past and turn the problem over to a tech.

There is no shame in this. Better to admit one has reached his limits and seek professional help instead of stumbling forward and making things worse and wasting money to boot.

Be sure to come back and let us know the outcome. Hope it is something minor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The code reader had codes related to changing the fuel pump I guess. No other codes, although the Foxwell I was using did not have the challenger loaded onto it.

998343
 

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The code reader had codes related to changing the fuel pump I guess. No other codes, although the Foxwell I was using did not have the challenger loaded onto it.
If you use a code reader and want the most bang for your buck it pays to use one that supports the specific brand/model of car you are working on. This can mean the code reader has the ability to get to controllers behind a gateway and can read and even "interpret" Dodge proprietary codes. Even better in the context of your problem if it can access the TIPM and if required "write" the VIN to it, etc.

Codes that begin with P1xxx are manufacturer specific. A Dodge P1234 (just an example) could have a completely different meaning than a Ford P1234. Other codes are manufacturer specific, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Now that the codes have been cleared when I did a reset, how will the code reader see anything since the car is not throwing off check engine codes.

What is the likely hood it is a pcm?
 

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For more diagnosing steps go to the online chilton manual.
 

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Now that the codes have been cleared when I did a reset, how will the code reader see anything since the car is not throwing off check engine codes.
If there is a problem one or more codes will come back. Once you manage to start the engine. A possible exception is Dodge specific or Dodge "internal" error codes might be logged as the ignition is turned on and the various systems go through their power up diagnostics.

Could it be a bad fuel pump connector. There was a TSB for it.
View attachment 998292
That's very interesting info and can explain the failure of the fuel pump to work.

What is the likely hood it is a pcm?
A bad PCM is at some level a possibility but you need a hard diagnosis before you start throwing PCMs at the behavior.

Did you see ChallyTatum's post regarding the revised fuel pump connector?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I towed it to the shop and they said the fuel relay for the 2013 Challenger was in the trunk fuse box not the tipm and they changed it and everything worked. I don’t understand how come AutoZone didn’t have the relay part, the Dodge dealership wouldn’t sell me a relay part because they said it was soldered on, I couldn’t find it on this forum and no one had mentioned that the fuel relay was in the trunk, and I can’t find anywhere that says the fuel relay is in the trunk.
For all of the forums and advice on 2013 challenger that will crank but can’t start, not one mentioned the fuel relay in the trunk. I’m not sure what’s going on but the guy said my car is fixed and maybe it was a bad relay in the trunk.
 

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I towed it to the shop and they said the fuel relay for the 2013 Challenger was in the trunk fuse box not the tipm and they changed it and everything worked. I don’t understand how come AutoZone didn’t have the relay part, the Dodge dealership wouldn’t sell me a relay part because they said it was soldered on, I couldn’t find it on this forum and no one had mentioned that the fuel relay was in the trunk, and I can’t find anywhere that says the fuel relay is in the trunk.
For all of the forums and advice on 2013 challenger that will crank but can’t start, not one mentioned the fuel relay in the trunk. I’m not sure what’s going on but the guy said my car is fixed and maybe it was a bad relay in the trunk.
On my 2013 JGC the relays are soldered to the TIPM...in fact their was a recall which they install and aftermarket relay...which also eventually failed. What I did was to take the PCB board out of the TIPM and soldered in new relays (it think they were not vented IIRC). It was a PITA but saved me over $1000 in a new TIPM that would probably fail like the original.

According to this link Challengers don't have the relay hard soldered to the TIPM.

In fact, these are the relays.

More specifically the fuel relay is a micro relay that could have been swapped with another less critical relay for testing purposes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for the information. I am picking up the car tomorrow. I spent hours looking on the internet doing searches on the fuel relay and they all pointed to the tipm, the fuse the pcm... I did see the link you provided to the parts page that shows the mini relay. What I am wondering is why it did not come up on any forums, or when I called the dealer, when i posted here or went to autozone. The answer only came up here after I posted what it was.
 

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Could be the fact that you said the mechanic checked everything out and it was the fuel pump. One would assume a mechanic would be able to recheck for a bad relay. You also mentioned you checked the fuse which some could have assumed you checked the relay as well. Hence why I mentioned the fuse pump connector TSB as that is a possibility if everything else checks out ok. As for the location of the relay, I normally look at either the front or rear fuse panels. The covers describe each fuse and relay location otherwise you can always check the online chiltons manual (there is a sticky in the electronics section) or mopar parts catalog (I generally use either Steve White or Mopar Giants). If you have searched here there are a number of post saying to check the fuel pump relay first on a no start...the location might not have been given but again folks assume people will check the fuse panels for the location as pre-2015 and post-2015 models have different layouts. Main thing is you found the problem and now know where the relay is and the part number for it. Wish it was this easy when my fuel pump relay gave out on my 2013 JGC...that was a PITA.

FWIW I looked up fuel pump relay on the forum and found this.
 

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I towed it to the shop and they said the fuel relay for the 2013 Challenger was in the trunk fuse box not the tipm and they changed it and everything worked. I don’t understand how come AutoZone didn’t have the relay part, the Dodge dealership wouldn’t sell me a relay part because they said it was soldered on, I couldn’t find it on this forum and no one had mentioned that the fuel relay was in the trunk, and I can’t find anywhere that says the fuel relay is in the trunk.
For all of the forums and advice on 2013 challenger that will crank but can’t start, not one mentioned the fuel relay in the trunk. I’m not sure what’s going on but the guy said my car is fixed and maybe it was a bad relay in the trunk.
In several of my posts I mentioned the fuel pump relay several times. This despite the fact you believed it was part of the TIPM. At the time I had no idea where the relay was, or really if there was even a serviceable relay. I mean you believed it was part of the TIPM and I had no access to any better info.

There are so many various locations for all the relays and even with cars I have owned for years and years I can't tell you where the relays are. (This can vary from model year to model year, too.) I just had access to this information for the specific model and model year and when the (rare) need came up to check a relay I had to look up the info every time.
 
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