[icecoldmn]

Go for it!!!............

at some point i just might, but im under warranty on my 21 for a few more years. then it will be time to decide on a widebody redeye or a d1sc procharger forged lower and stick with the shaker

 

[bryan0094]

My 09 SRT8 ended up at dealer only because it was beyond my talent to do plus wanted a warranty. 130k miles on it but the $5600 price tag hurt but felt it to be my best option . New Cam n Lifters and I don't have the MDS I think just bad quality parts to start with .

 

[ChallyTatum]

My 09 SRT8 ended up at dealer only because it was beyond my talent to do plus wanted a warranty. 130k miles on it but the $5600 price tag hurt but felt it to be my best option . New Cam n Lifters and I don't have the MDS I think just bad quality parts to start with .

So what is interesting about high mileage 6.1s is I have seen a few folks on the web have misfire issues which were a result of the lifter roller/cam lobe starting to wear. My coworker had a 2006 SRT8 300 with 127k miles on it an I warned him that if he ever sees any codes pop up to check for misfires and that it might be the cam going. He shrugged it off like I was crazy. Well last year he sold the 300 to some young kid his neighborhood and bought a telsa. Well during our company outing last week we were talking and I asked...you still see the 300? He said that the kid (I said kid but he is a 22 year old living with his folks) has it apart...and before I could open my mouth...my coworker said yes it was the cam. I will add that my co-worker had his 300 regularly maintained and had the dealership he bought it from use mobil 1 full synthetic oil. It really was a mint looking 300 both interior and exterior-wise....besides all the road salt corrosion under the chassis (poor car saw a lot of Chicago winters).

 

[CarolinaChallengerLover]

Not a fun situation for sure but like the title of this thread says I doubt it's "many" who have experienced this, keep in mind that what like 500,000 Challengers have been built?

 

[Cuda340]

You may want to price a Jasper remanufactured engine or a crate engine. I bought one a few years ago, for my son's Firebird and it ran great. They give you a 3-year/100,000 mile national parts and labor warranty.

Reman Gas Engines | Jasper Engines

Learn why Jasper Reman Gas Engines rate so highly in the industry.

www.jasperengines.com

 

[Lordofthehomer]

I don't know if you're having an independent shop do the work, or the dealer

the Oil Control Valve (VVT system) should be pulled - if there's metal debris on the screen of the that valve -

Chrysler calls out for replacing the entire engine - there's metal debris that got through all the oil galleries and into the bearings.

this can happen when the filter goes into bypass mode - cold oil / higher rpm or high rpm operation. Bypass takes place to prevent high oil pressure from blowing apart the filter media...

Where does one locate that filter?

 

[Big Swede]

It’s no biggie, just wondering if its idle vs total hours were similarly skewed like mine were when I got them. Both had > 50% of total engine runtime as idle hours.

The 2014 ate its cam at 72K and had the most skewed engine hours, something like 13K hours and 7K spent idling. The 2012 didn’t eat its cam until 90K, but it had less idling hours despite having about the same runtime hours.

How do you find that out?

 

[Moparrebel]

Where does one locate that filter?

The oil filter? That's the filter Hal H was referring to.

 

[Nuke]

How do you find that out?

The Pursuit Chargers have separate menus that display the total engine hours and engine idle hours. I believe it’s because they are supposed to follow a service schedule that’s based on engine hours as opposed to miles like the regular Chargers, but not 100% sure on that.

 

[Big Swede]

The Pursuit Chargers have separate menus that display the total engine hours and engine idle hours. I believe it’s because they are supposed to follow a service schedule that’s based on engine hours as opposed to miles like the regular Chargers, but not 100% sure on that.

That’s a cool function.

 

[ChallyTatum]

The oil filter? That's the filter Hal H was referring to.

There is a screen on the VVT solenoid (located at the front of the engine just under the air intake) which if there are signs of metal shavings the whole engine will need to be replace.

 

[Moparrebel]

There is a screen on the VVT solenoid (located at the front of the engine just under the air intake) which if there are signs of metal shavings the whole engine will need to be replace.

I thought he was talking about both the VVT screen and the bypass on the oil filter. My mistake.

 

[ChallyTatum]

I thought he was talking about both the VVT screen and the bypass on the oil filter. My mistake.

No you're fine. Hal does mention the oil filter bypass but it is the VVT screen that has to be inspected.

 

[Lordofthehomer]

The oil filter? That's the filter Hal H was referring to.

I thought I was referring to the VVT screen. My mistake

I don't know if you're having an independent shop do the work, or the dealer

the Oil Control Valve (VVT system) should be pulled - if there's metal debris on the screen of the that valve -

Chrysler calls out for replacing the entire engine - there's metal debris that got through all the oil galleries and into the bearings.

this can happen when the filter goes into bypass mode - cold oil / higher rpm or high rpm operation. Bypass takes place to prevent high oil pressure from blowing apart the filter media...

Okay so I revisited this thread because the whole lifter/cam thing disgusted me as it is, but Chrysler is LITERALLY stating that the issue is a thing and if you have metal flakes in the filter you should replace the engine? I’ve been griefing Dodge about this (for fun at this point) because they obviously know this is an issue and they knew it was an issue when they put the first engine in the first car with the Gen III Hemi, yet they don’t want to take any responsibility for this design flaw? The least they can do is offer free labour at their dealerships because none of us that experienced this want much of the stock valvetrain in our cars after we put up with this. How could a company that made the 4.0 liter inline six put out such a brittle engine? Chrysler is literally banking on cars not reading the misfires until they’re out of warranty or this is planned obsolescence so you upgrade to one of their new pieces of trash with high HP but still get walked by Audi SUVs.

 

[Nuke]

That’s a cool function.

Utilizing the information these menus provide while shopping for used cop Chargers has been a real eye opener for me. It’s certainly caused me to rethink what effects high RPM operation might have on these engines, as opposed to normal everyday driving RPM.

Previously I would have thought lots of high RPMs is bad, normal RPM is okay, and low RPM/idling would be inconsequential to the engine’s longevity. But when you consider almost every single cop Charger I’ve looked has had the cam/lifter failure while spending over half their lives idling, it seems like a foregone conclusion to associate excessive idling with the likelihood of having the cam/lifter failure occur.

So I can acquire the car with 100K miles, having spent >50% of its life idling and enduring a cam/lifter failure, then proceed to put 130K miles of relentless, hard driving on it and not have even a hint of the same failure likely recur (regular UOA tests show no sign of an impending or even eventual failure).

That seems backward to my old sense of how an engine works, but I’m not afraid to update or even change my view on how these engines work and what makes them vulnerable to wear and tear breakdowns.

 

[ChallyTatum]

Okay so I revisited this thread because the whole lifter/cam thing disgusted me as it is, but Chrysler is LITERALLY stating that the issue is a thing and if you have metal flakes in the filter you should replace the engine? I’ve been griefing Dodge about this (for fun at this point) because they obviously know this is an issue and they knew it was an issue when they put the first engine in the first car with the Gen III Hemi, yet they don’t want to take any responsibility for this design flaw? The least they can do is offer free labour at their dealerships because none of us that experienced this want much of the stock valvetrain in our cars after we put up with this. How could a company that made the 4.0 liter inline six put out such a brittle engine? Chrysler is literally banking on cars not reading the misfires until they’re out of warranty or this is planned obsolescence so you upgrade to one of their new pieces of trash with high HP but still get walked by Audi SUVs.

IIRC it was if there was metal flakes on the screen of the VVT solenoid. With any cam lobe being ground down like that you will certainly find flakes in the oil filter but if you find it on the VVT screen the flakes have made it into the oil galleys. A member recently posted about this...maybe several months ago. As for design flaw...it is not only MDS engine that have seen such failure but also a hand full of non-MDS engines. My money is on the flaw being the roller needles...they seem to have been redesigned to be larger.

Cutaway View Hemi Lifter Improvements [ larger needle...

See attached, sounds like the "AC" & "AD" versions of the lifters got larger needle bearings. Has anybody had or heard of lifter failures on 2018, 2019, 2020. Thinking the lifter rollers with the enlarged needle bearings were fully implemented by 2018 (possibly 2017 not sure). "Darth Hemi"

www.challengertalk.com

 

[A Guy]

Star Case Number: S1709000010 Rev. A
Release Date: 01/16/2021

A Guy

 

[70iselin]

So what are the chances of this happening to your car? Also is there anything we can do to prevent his from happening . I don’t need these headaches, it scares me that we have a time bomb waiting to happen

 

[Lordofthehomer]

So what are the chances of this happening to your car? Also is there anything we can do to prevent his from happening . I don’t need these headaches, it scares me that we have a time bomb waiting to happen

Well, Dodge may have beefed up the lifters on newer cars, so that may reduce the likelihood, but the design itself allows it to happen. Best bet is to not let it idle for longer than it has to, and disable MDS if applicable. This is what I’ve found out so far. The problem lies with where the cam is placed in the car as opposed to where LS motors have their cam placed. LS motors have the cam constantly splashed with oil, where the Hemi doesn’t have that benefit due to the cam being placed further above the crank. It uses oil trickling down the pushrods onto the roller lifters. Or so I’ve heard. Keep in mind this problem still happens in Non-MDS vehicles. I guess just stay vigilant. My lobe was completely worn down before the CEL started to prock. It didn’t help I was running an MPG tune and associated the sluggishness of the car with the tune that tries to save fuel by making the car run a little slower.

 

[70iselin]

How do you disable the MDS also idling what do you mean by idling? Traffic, letting the car warm up in the morning, you should not do. Also when does this happen after what mileage. Just a worrying I guess