Unfortunately, just happened at 57,000 miles and at 6 years and 6 months...
2015's have 100,000, only 5 years...
Car in shop and will be stuck with big repair bill...
How many others have you have had the same problem, I know I've read a lot with lifter problems...
Just asking...Trying to get some $$ relief...

Bummer man. Were 2015 MDS lifters before the redesign/strengthen? New to Mopar but it was around 15-16 they addressed this I think.
Good luck.

 

the lifters (non-MDS versions, M6 application) 787AA part # and the build date was Aug 2015 - my engine was built Sept 2015 (the sticker on left side valve cover has Julian date) - the lifters also have Julian date codes of manufacture

when I did my cam swap I compared the original 787AA to the 787AD (current part) - my new lifters were made Aug 2019 and the needle bearings looked to be the same size... the old on left / new on right

 

Unfortunately, just happened at 57,000 miles and at 6 years and 6 months...
2015's have 100,000, only 5 years...
Car in shop and will be stuck with big repair bill...
How many others have you have had the same problem, I know I've read a lot with lifter problems...
Just asking...Trying to get some $$ relief...

I don't know if you're having an independent shop do the work, or the dealer

the Oil Control Valve (VVT system) should be pulled - if there's metal debris on the screen of the that valve -

Chrysler calls out for replacing the entire engine - there's metal debris that got through all the oil galleries and into the bearings.

this can happen when the filter goes into bypass mode - cold oil / higher rpm or high rpm operation. Bypass takes place to prevent high oil pressure from blowing apart the filter media...

 

I don't know if you're having an independent shop do the work, or the dealer

the Oil Control Valve (VVT system) should be pulled - if there's metal debris on the screen of the that valve -

Chrysler calls out for replacing the entire engine - there's metal debris that got through all the oil galleries and into the bearings.

this can happen when the filter goes into bypass mode - cold oil / higher rpm or high rpm operation. Bypass takes place to prevent high oil pressure from blowing apart the filter media...

Where does one locate that filter?

 

might be cheaper to get a junkyard motor and swap it out if you have the skills, your dealer is going to bend you over and spank you.

 

That's what I'd do, junkyard motor then unload it.

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I tossed the MDS lifters/system and went with Hellcat lifters on my ’15 SRT. Still get really good gas mileage without it. Good time to play with a different cam and tune for a little more punch.

 

Thought you might like these..
So much for cam lobe 2...Lifter was just flattened...

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I hate to hear this is still a thing, especially for such low mileage Hemi engines as yours.

Do you mind posting up the accumulated engine hours and idling hours for the engine? I'm just curious...

I wouldn't worry too much about the longevity of the engine once it's repaired (assuming it can be repaired). There's no reason why that engine with a new camshaft and lifters in it can't hit 200K miles before its retired.

I have 2 Hemi’s that both are their cams before I got them. I’ve put 50K miles one and > 100K miles on the other, and both have MDS still installed (although I don’t use it on my DD, the other still has MDS active)

 

No idea, Nuke, on engine hours...It's a daily driver so most around town...Still maybe half/half...

 

It’s no biggie, just wondering if its idle vs total hours were similarly skewed like mine were when I got them. Both had > 50% of total engine runtime as idle hours.

The 2014 ate its cam at 72K and had the most skewed engine hours, something like 13K hours and 7K spent idling. The 2012 didn’t eat its cam until 90K, but it had less idling hours despite having about the same runtime hours.

 

“Welcome to the club” so to speak. Sorry you had to join. Mine was at just over 50k miles. Fortunately I had purchased the extended warranty and Dodge replaced the engine.

 

View attachment 1032330

 

IIRC there was a member here that was being quoted something like $7k for the repair...a crate motor (not sure if available with MDS) is something like +$5k. Junkyard motor is another good option but most likely uses old lifter design unless you can get one from a newer year.

 

Close to $7...Cam...Tappets...Solenoids...Filter..Oil...Antifreeze...Several gaskets O rings...lifters...MDS sensor...Oil Control Valve..

A lot of stuff...and labor...

 

7k with no performance upgrades? i would think you could put in a forged lower for that. but at least it should be as good as new when they are done

 

I agree. If I'm dropping that kind of coin, I'm going for more HP.

 

My 09 SRT8 ended up at dealer only because it was beyond my talent to do plus wanted a warranty. 130k miles on it but the $5600 price tag hurt but felt it to be my best option . New Cam n Lifters and I don't have the MDS I think just bad quality parts to start with .

 

So what is interesting about high mileage 6.1s is I have seen a few folks on the web have misfire issues which were a result of the lifter roller/cam lobe starting to wear. My coworker had a 2006 SRT8 300 with 127k miles on it an I warned him that if he ever sees any codes pop up to check for misfires and that it might be the cam going. He shrugged it off like I was crazy. Well last year he sold the 300 to some young kid his neighborhood and bought a telsa. Well during our company outing last week we were talking and I asked...you still see the 300? He said that the kid (I said kid but he is a 22 year old living with his folks) has it apart...and before I could open my mouth...my coworker said yes it was the cam. I will add that my co-worker had his 300 regularly maintained and had the dealership he bought it from use mobil 1 full synthetic oil. It really was a mint looking 300 both interior and exterior-wise....besides all the road salt corrosion under the chassis (poor car saw a lot of Chicago winters).

 

Not a fun situation for sure but like the title of this thread says I doubt it's "many" who have experienced this, keep in mind that what like 500,000 Challengers have been built?

 

You may want to price a Jasper remanufactured engine or a crate engine. I bought one a few years ago, for my son's Firebird and it ran great. They give you a 3-year/100,000 mile national parts and labor warranty.

Reman Gas Engines | Jasper Engines

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Okay so I revisited this thread because the whole lifter/cam thing disgusted me as it is, but Chrysler is LITERALLY stating that the issue is a thing and if you have metal flakes in the filter you should replace the engine? I’ve been griefing Dodge about this (for fun at this point) because they obviously know this is an issue and they knew it was an issue when they put the first engine in the first car with the Gen III Hemi, yet they don’t want to take any responsibility for this design flaw? The least they can do is offer free labour at their dealerships because none of us that experienced this want much of the stock valvetrain in our cars after we put up with this. How could a company that made the 4.0 liter inline six put out such a brittle engine? Chrysler is literally banking on cars not reading the misfires until they’re out of warranty or this is planned obsolescence so you upgrade to one of their new pieces of trash with high HP but still get walked by Audi SUVs.

IIRC it was if there was metal flakes on the screen of the VVT solenoid. With any cam lobe being ground down like that you will certainly find flakes in the oil filter but if you find it on the VVT screen the flakes have made it into the oil galleys. A member recently posted about this...maybe several months ago. As for design flaw...it is not only MDS engine that have seen such failure but also a hand full of non-MDS engines. My money is on the flaw being the roller needles...they seem to have been redesigned to be larger.

Cutaway View Hemi Lifter Improvements [ larger needle...

See attached, sounds like the "AC" & "AD" versions of the lifters got larger needle bearings. Has anybody had or heard of lifter failures on 2018, 2019, 2020. Thinking the lifter rollers with the enlarged needle bearings were fully implemented by 2018 (possibly 2017 not sure). "Darth Hemi"

www.challengertalk.com

 

Star Case Number: S1709000010 Rev. A
Release Date: 01/16/2021

A Guy

 

So what are the chances of this happening to your car? Also is there anything we can do to prevent his from happening . I don’t need these headaches, it scares me that we have a time bomb waiting to happen

 

Well, Dodge may have beefed up the lifters on newer cars, so that may reduce the likelihood, but the design itself allows it to happen. Best bet is to not let it idle for longer than it has to, and disable MDS if applicable. This is what I’ve found out so far. The problem lies with where the cam is placed in the car as opposed to where LS motors have their cam placed. LS motors have the cam constantly splashed with oil, where the Hemi doesn’t have that benefit due to the cam being placed further above the crank. It uses oil trickling down the pushrods onto the roller lifters. Or so I’ve heard. Keep in mind this problem still happens in Non-MDS vehicles. I guess just stay vigilant. My lobe was completely worn down before the CEL started to prock. It didn’t help I was running an MPG tune and associated the sluggishness of the car with the tune that tries to save fuel by making the car run a little slower.

 

How do you disable the MDS also idling what do you mean by idling? Traffic, letting the car warm up in the morning, you should not do. Also when does this happen after what mileage. Just a worrying I guess

 

You can either buy a kit to plug it, or tune it off. I meant excessive idling. You can’t prevent all idle. With a tuner you can increase the idle to high RPMs to promote better oil flow though. If you don’t have MDS I think it’s less of an issue and less likely to happen but it happens to non-MDS cars like I said. As for mileage, I’ve seen it happen to cars with 30K miles and some with over 100K. Not all are doomed to suffer this fate. When I examined the problem, it looked like cylinder 7 roller just locked up and that led to the cam getting eaten up. Maybe better quality oil will prevent it? I use Motul now but I ran pennzoil platinum when the car had free oil changes. But I hope it never befalls upon you.

 

Your right, You work hard for everything to get these cars which aren’t cheap. Just want to enjoy with no problems

 

To say the MDS is the root cause of the cam and lifter failures is the BS I was referring to.

I never had a problem with MDS before I installed the blower. I wish I could run it with the blower. Everything points to I could as it disables at any sign of a load.

I'm running the OE MDS Cam on new MDS lifters I swapped in @135K miles. No problems. I shift @6k.
Car is a 2013 R/T.

I'm taking this back to back to back lifter failures with a grain of salt. Where is Dodge Cares?

 

To say the MDS is the root cause of the cam and lifter failures is the BS I was referring to.

I never had a problem with MDS before I installed the blower. I wish I could run it with the blower. Everything points to I could as it disables at any sign of a load.

I'm running the OE MDS Cam on new MDS lifters I swapped in @135K miles. No problems. I shift @6k.
Car is a 2013 R/T.

I'm taking this back to back to back lifter failures with a grain of salt. Where is Dodge Cares?

I said it was a common theme but never it was the sole cause. Why are you running an OE cam with a blower? Why not get something more aggressive and have that nice lopey sound? That and a blower would sound awesome

 

I would suspect that the reason it appears to affect more MDS engines than non MDS engines is due to the shear numerical difference between the different engines. There are a lot more MDS engines (automatics) than non MDS (manuals) in service. So while on the surface it would be easy to blame MDS I would imagine if someone were able to gather all the data, you would find the percentage of failures would be relatively equal. Personally if I didn't know my car had MDS, I would never notice it. It is much more noticeable in my wife's Silverado than my challenger. Interestingly enough, my Hemi is quieter than our 5.3's as well

 

Personally if I didn't know my car had MDS, I would never notice it

The factory exhaust is made in such a way so as to accomplish that goal for sure. Replace it with some aftermarket exhaust, and especially if the resonators are deleted, and you will notice the MDS operation right away. It will sound terrible too!

 

Ah yes....gotta Love a 6 Speed!!

 

I think we are the minority on that one.

 

I just want my 2020 scat pack shaker to have no problems with the motor, feels like I keep reading all this, it’s a time bomb waiting to happen. I am surprise that Dodge cares don’t chime in because I know they monitor this forum

 

The fact that it's a 2020 will tend to lower your chances of having the cam/lifter failure by quite a bit. I cannot think of many, if any at all, 2017+ engines having this issue. I'm sure there are some, but there are not nearly as many as the years prior.

Don't let it keep you up at night, it would be pretty rare for that car to have this failure from what I have seen.