[Caddy]

I dunno…

I am not a cop

I doubt there were any police officers involved in the decision.

It was a rhetorical question. The answer is because it improves handling. Mopar didn’t go through the trouble of designing and manufacturing a larger sway bar just so the police would think it was cool.

 

[Hal H]

Referring to mopar parts or sway bars, suspension in general. Either way that's good to know as I really don't want to waste time on it if its not a drastic difference. Minimal difference is not worth it to me.

the '09 has a 30mm front and 16mm rear sway bar - so there's a lot of body roll (owned an '09 from new)

and yes, the '09 / '10 have a very tall ride height - I installed 2" lowering springs on mine

I had Eibach 38mm front and 19mm rear sway bars on that '09 - completely different experience vs. the high amount of body roll it had as stock

 

[Craag]

the '09 has a 30mm front and 16mm rear sway bar - so there's a lot of body roll (owned an '09 from new)

and yes, the '09 / '10 have a very tall ride height - I installed 2" lowering springs on mine

I had Eibach 38mm front and 19mm rear sway bars on that '09 - completely different experience vs. the high amount of body roll it had as stock

Yes it's almost embarrassing, well it is, I can't accelerate even decently hard from the top of an on ramp I have to slow down at the curve as I feel like she's going, going, going, then I get around the curve and go. My 2008 SRT8 charger, for comparison,older and stock went around and out of the same bend flying onto the ramp with very little roll. I think any brand of bars, sway bars, strut mount bars, lowering springs, better struts...almost anything will be better than what this car came with stock. Really I won't need much as I'm not tracking the car.

 

[Hal H]

Yes it's almost embarrassing, well it is, I can't accelerate even decently hard from the top of an on ramp I have to slow down at the curve as I feel like she's going, going, going, then I get around the curve and go. My 2008 SRT8 charger, for comparison,older and stock went around and out of the same bend flying onto the ramp with very little roll. I think any brand of bars, sway bars, strut mount bars, lowering springs, better struts...almost anything will be better than what this car came with stock. Really I won't need much as I'm not tracking the car.

the SRT models had firmer spring rates and firmer shocks (Bilsteins) - the early years Challenger R/T and SRT used the same sway bar sizes (30mm / 16mm), but different spring rates and Bilsteins on the SRT

 

[Caddy]

the SRT models had firmer spring rates and firmer shocks (Bilsteins) - the early years Challenger R/T and SRT used the same sway bar sizes (30mm / 16mm), but different spring rates and Bilsteins on the SRT

Is it true that the STP came with a bigger rear bar? I was thinking it would have been the bar from the SRT but maybe not.

 

[CE9311]

Every major racing, road track, autocross, mountain driving person has always looked into bigger better sway bars to tune the car to their style. Stiffer up front to counter oversteer, stiffer in rear to promote oversteer. Simple as that.


Want drag racing advice, maybe listen to the guy.


But for curvy roads I suggest listen to rest of the folks who do more than just go in a straight line. I am sure @stevewhite didn't remove his swaybars and claimed made no difference. In fact, considering they professionally road race his advice would be perfectly golden on what would be nice.

 

[tokunaga]

the platform is ancient but even so it's VERY sub-standard even by then-current expectations. In order the following needs to be fixed:

• IRS bushing (lockouts/replacement)
• Diff bushing (lockouts or replacement)
• Adjustable camber front A-arms
• Adjustable rear arms to allow changes to camber and toe.

The shocks of the lesser trims are poorly damped. I'm not sure if the Bilstein replacements are valved properly or to Dodge's garbage specs. There may be a difference between OE-spec and aftermarket Bilstein SKU - I don't know.

The $1000-1500 coil-over kits (D2, BC, IFV, Megan, Peddlers, Rev9 etc) should not be used as-is. Consider them a loose collection of parts that you take to your favorite suspension pro and have them ripped apart and re-valved correctly and replace the springs with the correct rates. I'm not a fan of KW either. You generally do NOT want 1"+ drop unless the car rides much too high to begin with - Mopar fixed that in the '17+ I believe. Most of the cheap stuff the min drop is 1" . You will need to make internal changes or longer tubes to get the necessary length and still maintain top-out.

If you're in any way serious, you should consult Wesley Motorsports Double Adjustable Coilover Shocks

Hmm, I guess RideTech is back?

Challenger Archives - Ridetech

ridetech.com

I would also do as much bracing as possible, both front and rear.
The car drives like a bowl of jell-o so you have to tighten up the structure so it doesn't deform so much.

 

[Hal H]

Is it true that the STP came with a bigger rear bar? I was thinking it would have been the bar from the SRT but maybe not.

the STP option (started partway through 2010 MY) would add the Bilsteins and larger rear bar and IIRC, later models (2014+) had different springs

the Charger Pursuit models had larger rear sway bars and probably got worked into the STP option on Challengers think it was 19mm in those days

today the SPWB bars are the largest production sway bars in the LA series (34mm / 22mm) as OEM - I put these on my '16 SPS

 

[Caddy]

the STP option (started partway through 2010 MY) would add the Bilsteins and larger rear bar and IIRC, later models (2014+) had different springs

the Charger Pursuit models had larger rear sway bars and probably got worked into the STP option on Challengers think it was 19mm in those days

today the SPWB bars are the largest production sway bars in the LA series (34mm / 22mm) as OEM - I put these on my '16 SPS

Just so I’m clear: You’re saying that the STP bar on the Challenger may be the Charger pursuit rear bar?

BMR definitely makes a 25mm rear bar: Free Shipping on all BMR Suspension packages!

 

[tokunaga]

bars are not the answer. Well, not the first answer. Far too often 60's muscle guys reach for bars because that's the only knob they know. Fix the rest of the car, and then consider adding a FRONT bar if you still need more. Rear bar should be absolutely LAST thing to do and carefully at that.

 

[CE9311]

11-14 pursuit got a 28mm front, 20mm rear. 15+ saw rear go to 22mm. I want to say front was bumped up to 30mm. Not sure.

 

[Caddy]

the platform is ancient but even so it's VERY sub-standard even by then-current expectations. In order the following needs to be fixed:

• IRS bushing (lockouts/replacement)
• Diff bushing (lockouts or replacement)
• Adjustable camber front A-arms
• Adjustable rear arms to allow changes to camber and toe.

The shocks of the lesser trims are poorly damped. I'm not sure if the Bilstein replacements are valved properly or to Dodge's garbage specs. There may be a difference between OE-spec and aftermarket Bilstein SKU - I don't know.

The $1000-1500 coil-over kits (D2, BC, IFV, Megan, Peddlers, Rev9 etc) should not be used as-is. Consider them a loose collection of parts that you take to your favorite suspension pro and have them ripped apart and re-valved correctly and replace the springs with the correct rates. I'm not a fan of KW either. You generally do NOT want 1"+ drop unless the car rides much too high to begin with - Mopar fixed that in the '17+ I believe. Most of the cheap stuff the min drop is 1" . You will need to make internal changes or longer tubes to get the necessary length and still maintain top-out.

If you're in any way serious, you should consult Wesley Motorsports Double Adjustable Coilover Shocks

Hmm, I guess RideTech is back?

Challenger Archives - Ridetech

ridetech.com

I would also do as much bracing as possible, both front and rear.
The car drives like a bowl of jell-o so you have to tighten up the structure so it doesn't deform so much.

If you are taking a cheap suspension kit to a shop for custom work, you might as well just buy a more expensive suspension kit.

I really like my Bilstein shocks so far. That’s probably the only part of the suspension that I am content with.

Sway bars, coil springs, strut tower braces, and subframe braces would all be needed to make the car handle okay.

Personally, I’m not sure if I will lower my car or add stiffer springs. It really annoys me to have to worry about scraping the ground constantly. It’s the same deal with my police Tahoe. Part of me wants to lower it and get rid of the wheel well gap, but it’s a daily driver and work vehicle. I think the OEM police springs are sufficient as far as performance, and the car sits at a nice comfortable height.

On this platform I wonder how the pursuit springs would compare to SRT or STP.

bars are not the answer. Well, not the first answer. Far too often 60's muscle guys reach for bars because that's the only knob they know. Fix the rest of the car, and then consider adding a FRONT bar if you still need more. Rear bar should be absolutely LAST thing to do and carefully at that.

Can you elaborate on why this car doesn’t need more rear bar? Does the car oversteer?

Also what does SPWB stand for?

 

[Hal H]

Also what does SPWB stand for?

Scat Pack Wide Body

 

[Hal H]

If you are taking a cheap suspension kit to a shop for custom work, you might as well just buy a more expensive suspension kit.

I really like my Bilstein shocks so far. That’s probably the only part of the suspension that I am content with.

Sway bars, coil springs, strut tower braces, and subframe braces would all be needed to make the car handle okay.

Personally, I’m not sure if I will lower my car or add stiffer springs. It really annoys me to have to worry about scraping the ground constantly. It’s the same deal with my police Tahoe. Part of me wants to lower it and get rid of the wheel well gap, but it’s a daily driver and work vehicle. I think the OEM police springs are sufficient as far as performance, and the car sits at a nice comfortable height.

On this platform I wonder how the pursuit springs would compare to SRT or STP.

you could get the SRT springs and the other option would be the Mopar Performance Stage 1 springs

between the stupid high ride height and floaty quality (and flaccid shocks), IMO the '09 / '10 R/T didn't have a good setup for an OEM performance car as far as suspensions goes

I've seen stock early R/Ts at shows and they look like they have off-road suspension setups when they're next to later models years - you can pick them out since they sit higher than the others

Keep in mind that from firmest to softer its Challenger > Charger > 300 for suspension tuning

most buyers of four door cars don't want stiff suspensions and the OEMs tune them that way

 

[tokunaga]

Can you elaborate on why this car doesn’t need more rear bar? Does the car oversteer?

for whatever reason many a 'muscle car' forum (mustang and camaro too) reach for rear bar when it's counter-productive or nullified by failure to address the real problems. You can also see even the factories walk back their big rear bar quick-fixes in subsequent releases.

No, I'm not saying a big rear bar in your current application is inviting "death". Rather, put your money to good use by fixing all the other more important and relevant deficiencies.

 

[Caddy]

you could get the SRT springs and the other option would be the Mopar Performance Stage 1 springs

between the stupid high ride height and floaty quality (and flaccid shocks), IMO the '09 / '10 R/T didn't have a good setup for an OEM performance car as far as suspensions goes

I've seen stock early R/Ts at shows and they look like they have off-road suspension setups when they're next to later models years - you can pick them out since they sit higher than the others

Keep in mind that from firmest to softer its Challenger > Charger > 300 for suspension tuning

most buyers of four door cars don't want stiff suspensions and the OEMs tune them that way

Based on the way you guys talk about the ride height of the early R/Ts, I’m starting to think that one of the following is true:

1. My 2010 STP car came with the SRT springs.
2. My springs aren’t original.

Be honest… Does my car look like it sits high?

 

[tokunaga]

Be honest… Does my car look like it sits high?

not to me but a side-view would be helpful and something to break up the sea of 'black' that is the wheels and tires, and wheel well.

 

[MEKrunner]

Be honest… Does my car look like it sits high?

View attachment 1104226
View attachment 1104227

It's tough to tell when the wheel, tire, and wheel well lining are black.
Can you give us a closer picture of the gap between the body of the car, and the top of the tires?

 

[SickToo]

The car drives like a bowl of jell-o so you have to tighten up the structure so it doesn't deform so much.

Oh bullsh it

I am in drag racer, but that doesn’t mean I haven’t taken this thing to the limit of the tire, in other words until the front end pushed, and I did not experience any of that

i’m not arguing the fact that it’s happening, the bushings are junk etc., but without a tire and a surface how in the hell are you even gonna notice it?

If I was considering spending money on that stuff, I would talk to Luke or somebody that actually races em and I wouldn’t listen to any thing anybody said here. Unfortunately, I probably wouldn’t listen to what I’ve said but that’s my experience and I shared it with you for free

 

[tokunaga]

Unfortunately, I probably wouldn’t listen to what I’ve said

admittedly some (most?) aftermarket stuff could be construed as to be an exercise in separating people from their money for little/nothing gain. But it doesn't take that much to recognize problems in chassis and suspension. The only decently sorted 'muscle car' is the Gen 6 Camaro. Even novices can feel something is wrong with the S550 Mustang too. The Dodge positively shouts how poorly it's set up just going around the block.

Whether or not you choose to drive around it, or ignore it, or fix it, is a matter of taste and thickness of one's wallet.