[mopardude9]

How much tread is on the rear tires?

If 4/32 or less, you’re smart to avoid the rain.

While I totally agree with your 4/32 limit, I always run all seasons to 2/32, the state inspection limit, because tires can be expensive. Yes, they hydroplane more, but I can drive thru it

I had an incident at work, where I left angry, and I lightly hit the throttle on my V6 with the front wheels turned, and the rear end stepped out a bit. Two coworkers were in the vicinity, and accused me of trying to run them over. A Manager got involved, and I explained that there was a lot of sand in the parking lot because the company responsible for maintaining the roads in the winter was using sand mixed with salt to save money. He looked at the tires on my car, and informed me that they were not safe to drive in the rain. I laughed at him and told him that I am driving in the snow with those tires

 

[Nuke]

Yeah, if you look closely, you can see the shells in the blacktop. Whether they are still using them, I don't know? My cousin worked/works for the company that produces the mixture.

http://www.ijsei.com/papers/ijsei-88719-20.pdf

Yep, I knew it. #3 in the Conclusions section clearly shows the problem:


“3. The relationship between the variation of seashells waste to Marshall stability can be expressed by the equation:
Y = 997.43 + 61.19X - 2.45X2.”

Anyone with half a brain knows that a Marshall stability of 150+ makes wet traction impossible for Dodge cars. Common sense dictates…wait, I smell burning hair…uh-oh, I think I’m stroking out again…🤪🤪🤪🤪

While I totally agree with your 4/32 limit, I always run all seasons to 2/32, the state inspection limit, because tires can be expensive. Yes, they hydroplane more, but I can drive thru it

I had an incident at work, where I left angry, and I lightly hit the throttle on my V6 with the front wheels turned, and the rear end stepped out a bit. Two coworkers were in the vicinity, and accused me of trying to run them over. A Manager got involved, and I explained that there was a lot of sand in the parking lot because the company responsible for maintaining the roads in the winter was using sand mixed with salt to save money. He looked at the tires on my car, and informed me that they were not safe to drive in the rain. I laughed at him and told him that I am driving in the snow with those tires

Yeah, they will still be drivable down to 2/32, but their limitations have to be kept in mind like you’re saying - slow down on wet roads and double your following distance when behind someone.

I think most folks would be horrified if they knew just how much tires with 2/32 tread left will increase their stopping distance when traveling at highway speeds and having to suddenly brake to 0 mph.

They will take easily double the distance to stop than when the tires had full tread depth. Throw in a wet road, and you’re toast if you’re following someone the standard two car lengths at 75 mph.

 

[mopardude9]

Yeah, they will still be drivable down to 2/32, but their limitations have to be kept in mind like you’re saying - slow down on wet roads and double your following distance when behind someone.

I think most folks would be horrified if they knew just how much tires with 2/32 tread left will increase their stopping distance when traveling at highway speeds and having to suddenly brake to 0 mph.

They will take easily double the distance to stop than when the tires had full tread depth. Throw in a wet road, and you’re toast if you’re following someone the standard two car lengths at 75 mph.

You made me Google this, I never considered braking distance in dry conditions. Here is what tire rack said

Nearly Worn Out (2/32")

• What We Liked: More responsive dry road handling with good dry braking traction
• Conclusion: Nearly worn out tires provide more responsive handling, but don't significantly exceed the stopping ability of new tires in dry conditions.

 

[Nuke]

You made me Google this, I never considered braking distance in dry conditions. Here is what tire rack said

Nearly Worn Out (2/32")

• What We Liked: More responsive dry road handling with good dry braking traction
• Conclusion: Nearly worn out tires provide more responsive handling, but don't significantly exceed the stopping ability of new tires in dry conditions.

My own personal experiences contradict those bullet points, but I have been known to drive like someone whose just escaped from the mental hospital…or is giving one a ride to Garland at the very least, so who knows.

I will continue to err on the side of safety (oh the irony!) and give folks ahead of me plenty of room when I’m rolling on balding tires. Surely I can’t go wrong with that approach!

 

[mopardude9]

My own personal experiences contradict those bullet points, but I have been known to drive like someone whose just escaped from the mental hospital…or is giving one a ride to Garland at the very least, so who knows.

I will continue to err on the side of safety (oh the irony!) and give folks ahead of me plenty of room when I’m rolling on balding tires. Surely I can’t go wrong with that approach!

No doubt, know your limits. I also suspected a decrease in dry braking distance recently with my Avenger, when in a period of just a few weeks, two different drivers making left turns failed to yeild to oncoming traffic, which forced me to slam on the brakes. Although I have ABS and ESP, but no BAS, the front brakes locked up and I skidded in time to avoid T-boning these two clueless drivers. But my rusty rear rotors may have a factor in the brakes locking up. The state can fail me for under thickness rotors, they cant fail me for rusty ones. Good thing my state inspections are keeping me safe

Tire Rack was probably testing on a prepped track, where they remove sand, dirt and debris

 

[Tape]

They didn’t make a Pirelli in that size for the rear (315/35/20) and my tire salesman (a friend) assured me they were compatible.

Sure they do, it's one of the Stickies street tires you can buy.

 

[A Guy]

??

What does…

Why is…

How is…

You know what, I don’t even want to know. I don’t think I could handle knowing the reason for that.

Carry on!

A Guy

 

[Hal H]

??

What does…

Why is…

How is…

You know what, I don’t even want to know. I don’t think I could handle knowing the reason for that.

Carry on!

there's tons of small sea shells in FL - so they're utilizing a local resource and probably reduces the amount of aggregate / rock chips

its likely there aren't many local sources of stone in the state, since FL is predominately sandy soils

Another example of regional materials - with all the pine trees in NC and SC, you'll see a lot of "pine straw" that is used for landscaping in planting beds...

there's so much of the stuff, that people got sold on the idea of using this stuff. I'd never seen this done on the West Coast. The drawbacks is pine straw is really scratchy, in breaks down in a years' time and snakes love to hang out in the stuff - its notorious for that

 

[Rockster]

Depends on the surface as well. The asphalt in Florida is filled with tiny sea shells. Gets quite slippery with heat and rain.

That's a good point. Where I lived and drove in CA the main roads, freeways, were grooved. Which helped the tires deal more effectively with water.

But here in Benton County AR the roads are not grooved and in fact do not appear to have that open a surface. Maybe on purpose to avoid water in the openings freezing and cracking the pavement. Also, roads are sanded in the winter and this with the help from vehicle tires acts to "polish" the road surface.

I thought my Hellcat tires were inadequate even in the dry in CA back here they were worse than inadequate.

The high performance tires on the Scat Pack though are quite good even given the road surfaces here are not quite as good as they were overall in CA.

But I still slow down when I have to drive in the rain. This for my Scat Pack but my daily (M-B van) too.

295’s on the ancient 69 Coronet. I-5 rain @ 65-70 no problem. 28-30 lbs.

View attachment 1030035

Those tires have a very open tread compared to what I'm more familiar with. Lots of grooves around the diameter of the tire which is the way most water leaves the road/tire interface.

 

[Hal H]

Sounds like Hydroplaning. Sometimes, I can drive 70 MPH in the rain, other times the car gets squirrely and I have to slow down to 45-50 MPH. If the car wiggles, I just reduce my speed

+1 on this

some road surfaces can also have poor drainage as well.

The OP described a hydroplaning event - and probably one side did a lot more than the other.

Back in the time I lived in the Pacific NW - WA state had several highways that were not pitched for drainage and had ruts from people driving around with studded tires for 6 months of the year, while the majority of the time there's no snow or ice...

at 60mph, you'd hit these pockets where there was a layer of water (and the ruts) and you simply had to slow down, as even with fairly new tires, you could feel when you hit a layer of water and traction wasn't all it should have been.

at higher speeds, a wider tire has to displace a lot of water and that can hydroplane more readily as well

 

[Yonko]

Anyone with half a brain knows that a Marshall stability of 150+ makes wet traction impossible for Dodge cars.

Why would Dodge vehicles experience a singular issue with traction?

The problem with wider tires on a wet surface is that the contact patch becomes shorter. This results in decreased traction on wet surfaces / increased chance of hydroplaning.

 

[Yellow Jacket 2012]

While I totally agree with your 4/32 limit, I always run all seasons to 2/32, the state inspection limit, because tires can be expensive. Yes, they hydroplane more, but I can drive thru it

I had an incident at work, where I left angry, and I lightly hit the throttle on my V6 with the front wheels turned, and the rear end stepped out a bit. Two coworkers were in the vicinity, and accused me of trying to run them over. A Manager got involved, and I explained that there was a lot of sand in the parking lot because the company responsible for maintaining the roads in the winter was using sand mixed with salt to save money. He looked at the tires on my car, and informed me that they were not safe to drive in the rain. I laughed at him and told him that I am driving in the snow with those tires

What’s more expensive, new tires or wrecking your car and paying the deductible if it’s repairable?

 

[Rockster]

+1 on this

some road surfaces can also have poor drainage as well.

The OP described a hydroplaning event - and probably one side did a lot more than the other.

Back in the time I lived in the Pacific NW - WA state had several highways that were not pitched for drainage and had ruts from people driving around with studded tires for 6 months of the year, while the majority of the time there's no snow or ice...

at 60mph, you'd hit these pockets where there was a layer of water (and the ruts) and you simply had to slow down, as even with fairly new tires, you could feel when you hit a layer of water and traction wasn't all it should have been.

at higher speeds, a wider tire has to displace a lot of water and that can hydroplane more readily as well

On I-580 through the Tri-valley area -- just east of the SF Bay Area -- it was not studded tires but just a lot of traffic and a good portion of it from big rigs. I-580 is a major east/west route for the bay area and carries a lot off passenger vehicle traffic (commuters) and a lot of commercial truck traffic. The freeway surface was grooved which was nice but over time one could see the grooves getting shallower due to wear where the tires ran. So not only did the grooves wear but this wear resulted in a depression -- like a shallow rut -- which tended to trap water.

The only way to safely deal with these is to just slow down so if one does encounter one of these and he will his vehicle's speed is still below the hydroplaning threshold.

No doubt, know your limits. I also suspected a decrease in dry braking distance recently with my Avenger, when in a period of just a few weeks, two different drivers making left turns failed to yeild to oncoming traffic, which forced me to slam on the brakes. Although I have ABS and ESP, but no BAS, the front brakes locked up and I skidded in time to avoid T-boning these two clueless drivers. But my rusty rear rotors may have a factor in the brakes locking up. The state can fail me for under thickness rotors, they cant fail me for rusty ones. Good thing my state inspections are keeping me safe

Tire Rack was probably testing on a prepped track, where they remove sand, dirt and debris

The responsibility of ensuring your vehicle is safe is on you. Not the "state".

While rotors may (will if the car sits unused for any time) develop rust my experience is the rust comes off with one application of the brakes.

In one case with rusty brakes -- which arose from me washing the car and failing to drive it after to dry the brakes -- I had to make an emergency stop. The brakes worked just fine -- I noticed no drop off in stopping power or a lock up -- but the rust resulted in an uneven material transfer from the pads to the rotors which had the brakes manifesting a mild pulsing upon light application of brakes from then on.

 

[Nuke]

Why would Dodge vehicles experience a singular issue with traction?

Because of the ultra high Marshall stability number.

Marshall stability is a measurement named after Aldie Marshall, inventor of the modern paved road.

But Aldie was widely known to be an ardent anti-Dodger, and so his Marshall stability equation famously excludes Dodge cars when above 150…

Or not, hell I don’t even know what Marshall stability is measured in! But I still say he was Dodge hater and shouldn’t be trusted!

 

[HardEight]

I'm in FL and have no choice but to drive in horrific rain... had a similar experience with the stock 245/45 Eagle F1 Supercar tires. Told my Wife about it...two days later picked up a screw in an outer treadblock...She swears I did it!

Picked up 4 275/40 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s. Completely different car in the rain now. Would I drive like an idiot? No. Can I drive faster than 25 on 295? Yes!

Worth every penny. On the other hand I have 3 like new F1 Supercar tires with 7k miles on them if you're interested!😁

 

[Nuke]

I'm in FL and have no choice but to drive in horrific rain... had a similar experience with the stock 245/45 Eagle F1 Supercar tires. Told my Wife about it...two days later picked up a screw in an outer treadblock...She swears I did it!

Picked up 4 275/40 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s. Completely different car in the rain now. Would I drive like an idiot? No. Can I drive faster than 25 on 295? Yes!

Worth every penny. On the other hand I have 3 like new F1 Supercar tires with 7k miles on them if you're interested!😁

Those Indy 500s are outstanding tires, especially in the rain.

I had some weirdos in a truck get aggressive on the interstate with me one night while it was raining, and I had already been on the road for 5 hours, 45 minutes from home, and didn't feel like engaging with these idiots. So I just mashed the gas pedal and left them in the rear-view. By the time I let off I was north of 120 mph, and the Indy 500s I had on The Bacon Hauler at the time handled it all and asked for more.

And I'm running 235/55s, so it's not like a wider tire is needed to maintain traction in wet weather. As long as the tire is made to handle wet roads (i.e. no drag radials or studded snow tires), and it has adequate tread depth to facilitate the water evacuation designed into its tread pattern, normal driving at average highway speeds should not be a problem...assuming the road surface is not in poor condition or poorly designed, obviously.

 

[Yonko]

Wide

I'm in FL and have no choice but to drive in horrific rain... had a similar experience with the stock 245/45 Eagle F1 Supercar tires.

I have the stock 245/45 Eagle F1's on my Challenger, and never had an issue. As a matter of fact, they grip spectacularly in the rain. My rear wheels also have a 2.3 negative camber. I assume this is due to a longer contact patch; per negative camber, I don't know?

 

[mopardude9]

What’s more expensive, new tires or wrecking your car and paying the deductible if it’s repairable?

I have never ever lost control of my car in the rain. I do not let the tires get below 2/32. My state says the limit is 2/32, so that is what I follow

The responsibility of ensuring your vehicle is safe is on you. Not the "state".

While rotors may (will if the car sits unused for any time) develop rust my experience is the rust comes off with one application of the brakes.

In one case with rusty brakes -- which arose from me washing the car and failing to drive it after to dry the brakes -- I had to make an emergency stop. The brakes worked just fine -- I noticed no drop off in stopping power or a lock up -- but the rust resulted in an uneven material transfer from the pads to the rotors which had the brakes manifesting a mild pulsing upon light application of brakes from then on.

I know it is my responsibility to keep my car safe. I have never paid for a brake job my entire life. There was some sarcasm in my post, I hate having my car inspected,

I let the Avenger sit too long, and the rust is still present on the rear rotors. The Inspection Station couldnt fail it, but they escorted me in the garage to show me and try to get me to replace them. I refused. Compared to a 1965 Dodge with a single master cylinder and four wheel drum brakes, the Avenger stops well

 

[HardEight]

Wide

I have the stock 245/45 Eagle F1's on my Challenger, and never had an issue. As a matter of fact, they grip spectacularly in the rain. My rear wheels also have a 2.3 negative camber. I assume this is due to a longer contact patch; per negative camber, I don't know?

Your camber setting might have something to do with it. I just know the handful of times I've gotten caught with it in a downpour it was sketchy. The F1s were fine in the dry but, was like skating on ice if there was any puddling of water.

Edit* If you're local I can give you a great deal on 3!

 

[Yonko]

Your camber setting might have something to do with it. I just know the handful of times I've gotten caught with it in a downpour it was sketchy. The F1s were fine in the dry but, was like skating on ice if there was any puddling of water.

Edit* If you're local I can give you a great deal on 3!

Do you have a reading on your rear camber? I'm in Orlando, though I'm not looking for tires at this time.