[Mason345]

Question.... i haven’t seen any pre-eagle lifter failures, and they they are interchangeable. What has changed?

 

[mopardude9]

I think you caught an issue that was starting to happen

it looks like the base plating/ finish in the lobe was starting to go but its on the base circle and not present on the whole lobe

usually when the roller us going out it wears the entire surface

I'm suspecting overdue oil changes or oil quality wasn't adequate

with those miles go with new lifters with the new cam

To me, it looks like a casting defect that was beneath the surface when the cam was made. That would explain why some fail early, and some last forever. It is also possible that the cam is cast, and then the lobes are welded with a harder material before it is ground, and the defect in the picture is a welding defect

 

[Hal H]

Looks like you caught it "just in time" although too late to avoid a costly repair. These motors have (in the opinion of some very qualified mechanics) a serious engine block design problem that causes the cam to NOT be constantly drenched in oil at low/idle RPMs.

ah, the "Uncle Phony" video - if that guy had bothered to actual look at the block - there are oil gallery feeds to the lifter bores themselves.

He later back-pedaled with a later video trying to explain himself on that great mis-information blunder.

 

[gapi]

Oh yes, you dodged a serious bullet. A 2012 5.7L is in the window for sure. Get that oil filter out of there.

While you are in there if you have the Black timing chain guide get a new setup with the updated white metal backed plastic.

Where are you located, I know someone who would like those lifters for study?

Where you running 5W20?
Can we see pics of the lifter rollers on the effected ones?

 

[Mason345]

Oh yes, you dodged a serious bullet. A 2012 5.7L is in the window for sure. Get that oil filter out of there.

While you are in there if you have the Black timing chain guide get a new setup with the updated white metal backed plastic.

Where are you located, I know someone who would like those lifters for study?

Where you running 5W20?
Can we see pics of the lifter rollers on the effected ones?

I do have the black plastic timing chain guides and tensioner,

i am located in upstate ny

i ran 5w20 pennzoil synthetic

i will work on pulling the heads off this evening and post more pictures of my findings as far as the lifters go.

 

[Nuke]

since ive owned the car i do 3k miles oil change interval with synthetic oil would a high volume or pressure pump help

Leaving oil in too long is definitely bad, but changing it early is not necessarily beneficial.

If you plan on sticking with 3K mile OCIs, switch to a conventional or semi-syn/HM to save some $$.

If you want to stick to synthetic, run the oil out to 5K miles at the very least, 7500 to get the full value from the extra money spent on synthetic.

A higher volume/PSI of oil isn’t necessary. The factory pumps are adequate for engine lubrication.

 

[Mason345]

Leaving oil in too long is definitely bad, but changing it early is not necessarily beneficial.

If you plan on sticking with 3K mile OCIs, switch to a conventional or semi-syn/HM to save some $$.

If you want to stick to synthetic, run the oil out to 5K miles at the very least, 7500 to get the full value from the extra money spent on synthetic.

A higher volume/PSI of oil isn’t necessary. The factory pumps are adequate for engine lubrication.

I have only changed the oil twice. I bought the car January of 2020.

 

[gapi]

I do have the black plastic timing chain guides and tensioner.
I am located in upstate NY, I ran 5w20 pennzoil synthetic.
i will work on pulling the heads off this evening and post more pictures of my findings as far as the lifters go.

Thank You, looking forward to seeing those lifter rollers.
No one has solved the "Why" in this issue. Some blame MDS but yours is an example that's not so. No one really knows and it could be a combination.
Look over the springs on those locations for cracks. I spoke with a senior MOPAR tech about it and there is just no definitive explanation.
They have found some that rotated in the yokes, some had cracked springs and allowd chatter bounce, some roller needles failed.........

I got my lifters from Steve White. @130+k miles on my 2013 MDS 5.7L. I did it just in case. Lifters, springs, push rods, valve stem seals (don't get Felpro seals). She looked good and I hope I made sure she remains so.

 

[DeWFPo]

Please take good pics of the lifter for that lobe or any other that may show damage.

 

[Mason345]

Quick update. Pulled the heads and lifters, nothing overly dramatic found none of the rollers upon quick inspection are loose on their “axle” we’ll call it and none of the rollers are showing any signs of major wear, just what presumably transferred from the camshaft potentially but the wear patterns are not uniform between lifters. Shown attached are lifters from bank 1 front to rear, bank 2 front to rear

 

[Mason345]

Last 6 on bank 2

 

[Mason345]

One thing i did notice was that some of the needle bearings are protruding from the roller and making contact with the body of the lifter... something to ponder.

 

[CE9311]

I joined because of this thread. I hope that is okay. I however have lurked here long time as Challenger guys seem to have more actual performance oriented thought process than other cars in the lineup.

I am super happy to see at least some one understands the Uncle Tony videos are a sham. Specially him replicating a oiled lifter bored that is a tight machined fit by holding a lifter out and just dribbling oil on it because you know, that is how the engine does it.

I wanted to share something I saw on several Cam that has lead me to believe valve spring pressure may be something of a cause. Look at photo below and you can see little "steps" or "stripes" in the wear which to me look like something that has clattered on the cam. This I theorized happens at higher rpms. This kinda answers why the lifter failures do not happen to every car. (some get driven harder than others like Pursuits)

I have seen this kind of wear on x2 2011 1x 2013 cams I currently have in m possession. Two of the cams never had lifter failure, they were just swapped out for higher performance options.

Can you Remove the rollers and take photos of the bearings and the pin they ride on? I am looking for this..

 

[Mason345]

I joined because of this thread. I hope that is okay. I however have lurked here long time as Challenger guys seem to have more actual performance oriented thought process than other cars in the lineup.

I am super happy to see at least some one understands the Uncle Tony videos are a sham. Specially him replicating a oiled lifter bored that is a tight machined fit by holding a lifter out and just dribbling oil on it because you know, that is how the engine does it.

I wanted to share something I saw on several Cam that has lead me to believe valve spring pressure may be something of a cause. Look at photo below and you can see little "steps" or "stripes" in the wear which to me look like something that has clattered on the cam. This I theorized happens at higher rpms. This kinda answers why the lifter failures do not happen to every car. (some get driven harder than others like Pursuits)

I have seen this kind of wear on x2 2011 1x 2013 cams I currently have in m possession. Two of the cams never had lifter failure, they were just swapped out for higher performance options.

View attachment 1016813


Can you Remove the rollers and take photos of the bearings and the pin they ride on? I am looking for this..
View attachment 1016811
View attachment 1016812

i can pull a couple from the worst affected lobes, not sure we will find anything, all the rollers on their axis’ have no perceptible motion.but it is worth a look.

i have a feeling spring pressure may be a factor, and again, what change to cause this in eagles, but not pre eagles

 

[Charles 236]

If I remember correctly, the spring installed height is a bit more on the Eagle Hemi than the earlier Hemis. This is what makes it possible to install 392 cams in 5.7 Eagle Hemi engines.

 

[Mason345]

If I remember correctly, the spring installed height is a bit more on the Eagle Hemi than the earlier Hemis. This is what makes it possible to install 392 cams in 5.7 Eagle Hemi engines.

yes true that the installed height is taller on eagle. Not sure that has anything to do with lifters failing

 

[McCloud]

Looking at the wear on these it seems like the core was actually bad. The metal separating like that seems like there was an issue with that batch of metal.

 

[Mason345]

Looking at the wear on these it seems like the core was actually bad. The metal separating like that seems like there was an issue with that batch of metal.

I’m starting to think the same thing, because most lifter failures, ends up being one lobe, not several, am i correct? This may have been lack of maintenance by the previous owner(s), all of the cam wear is on the max lift of the lobe where spring pressure is the highest, the engine didn't make any abnormal ticking noise, and all of the rollers seem to function properly.

 

[McCloud]

I’m starting to think the same thing, because most lifter failures, ends up being one lobe, not several, am i correct? This may have been lack of maintenance by the previous owner(s), all of the cam wear is on the max lift of the lobe where spring pressure is the highest, the engine didn't make any abnormal ticking noise, and all of the rollers seem to function properly.

Well the way the metal is pitted, it's not just ground down from a seized lifter, it's actually coming apart. Makes me think there issues with core itself. Not an expert but when they blend the metal if the formula is off or if it gets contaminated the metal loses its structural integrity i.e.. the cam lobes heavily pitted/coming apart.

 

[CE9311]

i can pull a couple from the worst affected lobes, not sure we will find anything, all the rollers on their axis’ have no perceptible motion.but it is worth a look.

i have a feeling spring pressure may be a factor, and again, what change to cause this in eagles, but not pre eagles

To me, to find any root cause it has to answer many questions or at least be plausible to others and correalte with actual physical data.

The argument it was a Design flaw is rubbish as it leaves open why only some are effect and not others. And why only around 2011 being one of the worst years along with those around it.

Idle Time, once again heavily flawed by data show casing plenty of cars with various uses suffering from it. And then have some (pursuits) with high idle times and no issues. The idea that "crank splash" is a huge lubricator in a very late model engine is straight up laughable to me.

The valve spring pressure does account for the slight randomness of the failures, explains some of the wear on the lobes (chattering, breaking, and the wear on the lifter pins you saw in my photo) and is the first step in the sequence of failures, with the roller eventually jamming up into the lifter from the pin wear and then start eating massively at the cam lobe. HOWEVER, there are still issues with it even though I prefer this route. One being cylinders 3,5,7 is a very very common when it comes to these failures. I can not explain this.

Parts quality. This would def hit alot of spots but hardly any way to prove it. And if it were why was something not done about it before the costs of back fixing things would be so much.

MDS system... I find it funny this still gets blamed from time to time when in fact MDS been around since 2005 in the Charger (IIRC) and had little to no issues with lifters and cams.


I did have my cam sent to someone who told me they rockwell tested the cam with a rating of 54 I believe along with the rollers on the lifter.